Wyndham salesman's lies to my friends

[Braindead]

All Wyndham has to do is put in the contract that if the buyers contract is paid off & in good standing. If the buyer wants to exit their ownership they’ll receive 3 years of points at no extra cost.
That would also be a selling point giving the buyer a guaranteed exit at no cost to the buyer. Sales could then also say if you buy resale there’s no guaranteed exit of the ownership. This might even cut down on resales availability after a few years.

Wyndham could use a version of the Discovery Package for 5 or 10 years. But there’s no way their coming after current owners. Could you imagine the chaos that would create rallying owners to vote on not allowing Wyndham to manage the individual resorts. Not to mention the legality & lawsuits that would follow

Richelle is right that they can’t change gross points at a resort to water down owners points

 

[Fredflintstone]

All Wyndham has to do is put in the contract that if the buyers contract is paid off & in good standing. If the buyer wants to exit their ownership they’ll receive 3 years of points at no extra cost.
That would also be a selling point giving the buyer a guaranteed exit at no cost to the buyer. Sales could then also say if you buy resale there’s no guaranteed exit of the ownership. This might even cut down on resales availability after a few years.

Wyndham could use a version of the Discovery Package for 5 or 10 years. But there’s no way their coming after current owners. Could you imagine the chaos that would create rallying owners to vote on not allowing Wyndham to manage the individual resorts. Not to mention the legality & lawsuits that would follow

Richelle is right that they can’t change gross points at a resort to water down owners points

I agree that they can not change point value on your contract. What i mean is the value of the points themselves can change. For example, your 120 k points can have less or more trading power.


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[Richelle]

I agree that they can not change point value on your contract. What i mean is the value of the points themselves can change. For example, your 120 k points can have less or more trading power.


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120,000 points spend the same across the system. If by “Trading power” you’re referring to the fact that at some resorts, 120,000 will get you a two bedroom on low season but only a studio in prime season, yes, it’s different. Just like you can get a hotel room for $200 a night in prime season, and $50 a night during low season. Or one hotel is $500 a night but a totally different hotel is $50 a night.

 

[Jan M.]

I agree that they can not change point value on your contract. What i mean is the value of the points themselves can change. For example, your 120 k points can have less or more trading power.


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No the value doesn't change! The very first points we bought in 2002 still get us exactly the same stays at every resort that was in the system at that time. We don't use any more points to book stays at those resorts than we did in 2002.

Over the years new resorts came into the system, each come their own point charts. Our points get us exactly the same stays now as they did when each of those resorts came into the system. Yes the resorts coming into the system now are varying amounts of higher points to book which is to be expected. I can't think of a single thing that costs the same 18 years later as it did in 2002. Well, except for someone's theoretical two cents worth. Lol.

 

[spackler]

Yeah, they might record the signing process which shows that the buyer(s) signed of their own free will, but the videos do not record the sales process which records all the skewed figures, omission of pertinent facts, half-truths, and outright lies that the sales people tell.

In certain states, it's perfectly legal for prospects to audio record the sales process, even without the salesman's knowledge.

 

[55plus]

I agree that they can not change point value on your contract. What i mean is the value of the points themselves can change. For example, your 120 k points can have less or more trading power.


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The million plus points my parents bought from Fairfield in the mid '90s has the same trading power today in the Wyndham system today. Older resorts require less points than the newer resorts. That's where the difference comes I to play.

 

[55plus]

The million plus points my parents bought from Fairfield in the mid '90s has the same trading power today in the Wyndham system today. Older resorts require less points than the newer resorts. That's where the difference comes I to play.

To add to my post above, the million plus points (VIP Platinum) my parents purchased for around $30K in the mid '90s verse today's cost of well over $100K, one could stretch it to say trading power increased somewhat if you factor in the variables and not factor in the increase in the maintenance fees, something that everyone is subject to.

 

[Braindead]

I agree that they can not change point value on your contract. What i mean is the value of the points themselves can change. For example, your 120 k points can have less or more trading power.

Wyndham cannot change the points of owners contracts & they cannot change the percentage of ownership of the contract in relationship to the overall ownership of the resort. If they could that would be like a fixed weeks resort deciding that there’s now 60 weeks in a year. That cannot happen with weeks or a points ownership.

As for trading power at 10 months we’re exchanging our points for trading power in the Wyndham system.
We have the same trading power for our home resort at 10 months as our rights under ARP period meaning we use the same points chart at 10 months that we use for ARP reservations. Trading power varies by resorts as others have pointed.

 

[dgalati]

To add to my post above, the million plus points (VIP Platinum) my parents purchased for around $30K in the mid '90s verse today's cost of well over $100K, one could stretch it to say trading power increased somewhat if you factor in the variables and not factor in the increase in the maintenance fees, something that everyone is subject to.

Not the Trading power that has increased it is the initial purchase price vs price that was paid $/1000 or about 70% lower. Put aside the sunk cost and how much has the monthly maintenance cost risen over the last 25 years?

 

[LannyPC]

In certain states, it's perfectly legal for prospects to audio record the sales process, even without the salesman's knowledge.

That's good to know. True as that may be, what are the chances that a prospect is going to walk into a presentation with recording equipment ready to record everything? And anyone who does is probably familiar with the TS presentation process and knows not to buy at these presentations. IOW, a person "green around the gills" about timesharing who goes into a presentation (the ones who seem to be the most susceptible to falling for the sales pitch) has no idea what he's getting into and, hence, won't think about cuing up recording equipment.

Although, it would be interesting to see, if it went to court, what would happen if a person did record everything (including the lies), purchased, signed the contract including the clause that essentially states that the written contract is what counts, and then presented the recorded evidence. What would win out? What was said by the sales person or what is in the contract the buyer signed?

 

[spackler]

You don't need "recording equipment", as 99% of our phones are perfectly capable of doing audio recordings. Just tap "record" on your app & leave it on the table in front of you - no one would suspect anything.

But yes, the type of people who fall for the timeshare pitch probably aren't going to think to do this.

Again, you'd have to do the research ahead of time to see if your state allows only one-party consent for audio recordings. To my knowledge, Florida (a big TS destination) does NOT allow this.

Would it help from a legal standpoint? I have no idea...but Wyndham (or whomever) might be more willing to work with you from a PR perspective.

 

[dgalati]

All Wyndham has to do is put in the contract that if the buyers contract is paid off & in good standing. If the buyer wants to exit their ownership they’ll receive 3 years of points at no extra cost.
That would also be a selling point giving the buyer a guaranteed exit at no cost to the buyer. Sales could then also say if you buy resale there’s no guaranteed exit of the ownership. This might even cut down on resales availability after a few years.

Wyndham could use a version of the Discovery Package for 5 or 10 years. But there’s no way their coming after current owners. Could you imagine the chaos that would create rallying owners to vote on not allowing Wyndham to manage the individual resorts. Not to mention the legality & lawsuits that would follow

Richelle is right that they can’t change gross points at a resort to water down owners points

Let me get this straight you would use Ovations or "The promise to take back a ownership for free" as a selling point? Its hard to believe the logic behind your statement. Wyndham should convince prospective buyers the ownership is worth 30k but then convince the buyer that after its paid off Wyndham will pay $0 when buyer exits. The statement of "at no cost to buyer" is only correct if you don't consider the 30k sunk cost. Sounds like Wyndham math to me buy at 30k sell at $0 recieve 3 years of use without paying maintenance fees. 154,000 points can be rented at $6/1000 or $900 per year giving and a Total value of $2700 on exiting. Great deal for Wyndham only IMHO. It would be better off for many to buy resale at $100 all in then paying the developer price of 30K.

 

[Braindead]

Let me get this straight you would use Ovations or "The promise to take back a ownership for free" as a selling point? Its hard to believe the logic behind your statement. Wyndham should convince prospective buyers the ownership is worth 30k but then convince the buyer that after its paid off Wyndham will pay $0 when buyer exits. The statement of "at no cost to buyer" is only correct if you don't consider the 30k sunk cost. Sounds like Wyndham math to me buy at 30k sell at $0 recieve 3 years of use without paying maintenance fees. 154,000 points can be rented at $6/1000 or $900 per year giving and a Total value of $2700 on exiting. Great deal for Wyndham only IMHO. It would be better off for many to buy resale at $100 all in then paying the developer price of 30K.

My math is $2,700 to the owner exiting in YOUR OWN example is more than $0!!
You’re flat out saying dgalati math is $2,700 =$0. Your own math is so much worse than what you call Wyndham math.
I’d say dgalati math $2,700 =$0 is the ultimate DAZE & CONFUSE
Not only that many rent at more than $6 per 1k points
Many are worried if the current Wyndham exits will always be there.
My example takes care of that by guaranteeing exit with 3 years of points

 

[SNA27]

All Wyndham has to do is put in the contract that if the buyers contract is paid off & in good standing. If the buyer wants to exit their ownership they’ll receive 3 years of points at no extra cost.
That would also be a selling point giving the buyer a guaranteed exit at no cost to the buyer. Sales could then also say if you buy resale there’s no guaranteed exit of the ownership. This might even cut down on resales availability after a few years.

Wyndham could use a version of the Discovery Package for 5 or 10 years. But there’s no way their coming after current owners. Could you imagine the chaos that would create rallying owners to vote on not allowing Wyndham to manage the individual resorts. Not to mention the legality & lawsuits that would follow

Richelle is right that they can’t change gross points at a resort to water down owners points

Let me get this straight you would use Ovations or "The promise to take back a ownership for free" as a selling point? Its hard to believe the logic behind your statement. Wyndham should convince prospective buyers the ownership is worth 30k but then convince the buyer that after its paid off Wyndham will pay $0 when buyer exits. The statement of "at no cost to buyer" is only correct if you don't consider the 30k sunk cost. Sounds like Wyndham math to me buy at 30k sell at $0 recieve 3 years of use without paying maintenance fees. 154,000 points can be rented at $6/1000 or $900 per year giving and a Total value of $2700 on exiting. Great deal for Wyndham only IMHO. It would be better off for many to buy resale at $100 all in then paying the developer price of 30K.

My math is $2,700 to the owner exiting in YOUR OWN example is more than $0!!
You’re flat out saying dgalati math is $2,700 =$0. Your own math is so much worse than what you call Wyndham math.
I’d say dgalati math $2,700 =$0 is the ultimate DAZE & CONFUSE
Not only that many rent at more than $6 per 1k points
Many are worried if the current Wyndham exits will always be there.
My example takes care of that by guaranteeing exit with 3 years of points

I wish Wyndham had used Guaranteed Exit via Ovations line when they sold me! I would have made a guaranteed exit through the door and saved myself a ton of money!

 

[SNA27]

@dgalati is fundamentally right.
It makes no sense to buy at developer prices with 'great foresight' to turn it back into Ovations for $0 + 3 years of usage.
Greater foresight would be to run to exit while stopping by at the gift desk to grab the reward.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Let me get this straight you would use Ovations or "The promise to take back a ownership for free" as a selling point? Its hard to believe the logic behind your statement. Wyndham should convince prospective buyers the ownership is worth 30k but then convince the buyer that after its paid off Wyndham will pay $0 when buyer exits. The statement of "at no cost to buyer" is only correct if you don't consider the 30k sunk cost. Sounds like Wyndham math to me buy at 30k sell at $0 recieve 3 years of use without paying maintenance fees. 154,000 points can be rented at $6/1000 or $900 per year giving and a Total value of $2700 on exiting. Great deal for Wyndham only IMHO. It would be better off for many to buy resale at $100 all in then paying the developer price of 30K.

Having a defined contractual exit strategy spelled out in advance is never a bad thing IMHO, so I disagree with your assessment here. You may not like the fact that timeshares are essentially worth nothing after a developer purchase (just like me), but having an exit clause would probably result in more developer sales for Wyndham since it’s essentially a risk mitigation strategy. The alternative is for owners to continue to be stuck with contracts in perpetuity just like they are today yes?

I will drop back and ask the same question I have asked before that has gone unanswered here. Is our goal to eliminate ALL developer purchases? If so, then our goal is to essentially bankrupt the timeshare companies in the process, at least as they are structured today. Perhaps this is the ultimate goal, but I remain suspect that this strategy will work out well for most owners.

What will happen if resale continues to increase from a market share standpoint is that the timeshare firms will simply make it more painful to obtain resale contracts by using ROFR clauses (many already do), and putting more and more limits on resale contracts (which an increasing number of timeshare firms are doing). Let’s be careful what we wish for here.




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[Braindead]

I wish Wyndham had used Guaranteed Exit via Ovations line when they sold me! I would have made a guaranteed exit through the door and saved myself a ton of money!

You’d be surprised how many of us here that have purchased directly from Wyndham knowing full well what the resale value is & I’m one of them but along ways from being the only one.

I understand your response & you love polls. Do a poll on how many have purchased from Wyndham after knowing the resale value.
Include a group that have thought about it or are considering a purchase from Wyndham

 

[SNA27]

From the perspective of a salesperson, especially a weasel, it makes no sense at all to make full disclosure of the truth TS has no resale value.
That would have woken up my addled brain from the VIP reverie of 'champagne dreams and caviar wishes'. I would've thought more clearly and found more economical ways to satisfy my vacation deprivation.

 

[Braindead]

@dgalati is fundamentally right.
It makes no sense to buy at developer prices with 'great foresight' to turn it back into Ovations for $0 + 3 years of usage.
Greater foresight would be to run to exit while stopping by at the gift desk to grab the reward.

You say “it makes no sense” so what are implying about the ones that have made that purchase including myself.
This is not a factual matter only an opinion by you & others.
There are VIPs that have posted that it does make sense with actual numbers to backup a VIP purchase. Are they factually wrong??
I like some of the benefits that don’t have fixed $$ amounts attached like a later date to deposit points & room request as a couple of examples. How do you make blank statements that it doesn’t make sense when it obviously does to some knowing full well what the resale value is??

 

[SNA27]

You’d be surprised how many of us here that have purchased directly from Wyndham knowing full well what the resale value is & I’m one of them but along ways from being the only one.

I understand your response & you love polls. Do a poll on how many have purchased from Wyndham after knowing the resale value.
Include a group that have thought about it or are considering a purchase from Wyndham

If I had been well informed as I am today and worked out numbers beforehand and performed a proper opportunity cost analysis, I would not have bought Wyndham TS.
VIP status within the 60-day window or unlimited HK credits means days means nothing when resale owners can buy millions of points for a song relative to developer price.

 

[Braindead]

If I had been well informed as I am today and worked out numbers beforehand and performed a proper opportunity cost analysis, I would not have bought Wyndham TS.
VIP status within the 60-day window or unlimited HK credits means days means nothing when resale owners can buy millions of points for a song relative to developer price.

Your missing the point. I don’t tell resale only owners “ it makes no sense to buy resale “. I think it makes total sense for many owners to buy resale.
Any owner with under 400k points might as well own 100% resale points.
Personal finances makes a huge difference in my opinion as another example if an individual should stay with all resale points

 

[SNA27]

You say “it makes no sense” so what are implying about the ones that have made that purchase including myself.
This is not a factual matter only an opinion by you & others.
There are VIPs that have posted that it does make sense with actual numbers to backup a VIP purchase. Are they factually wrong??
I like some of the benefits that don’t have fixed $$ amounts attached like a later date to deposit points & room request as a couple of examples. How do you make blank statements that it doesn’t make sense when it obviously does to some knowing full well what the resale value is??

I imply nothing about you or me or anybody else. Please reread the complete statement as an abstraction without inserting yourself into it.

If I had the foresight to see the resale value is zero + 3 years of usage, l would have had reconsidered my purchase and looked into how much 3 years usage would cost.

I bought VIPP and there's nothing I can do about it now. But I was only commenting on Wyndham having an epiphany and disclosing the truth about resale values. It will never happen!

 

[HitchHiker71]

From the perspective of a salesperson, especially a weasel, it makes no sense at all to make full disclosure of the truth TS has no resale value.
That would have woken up my addled brain from the VIP reverie of 'champagne dreams and caviar wishes'. I would've thought more clearly and found more economical ways to satisfy my vacation deprivation.

From a sales weasel standpoint, they already lie and tell net new purchasers that they can return the timeshare if they don’t want it. This is an often asked question at the sales table which prompts an overly generic answer. People generally don’t ask for details and even when they do, the “daze and confuse” half truths approach is almost universally employed.

From a risk mitigation perspective having an actual exit clause would help to bridge the gap from half truths and outright lies to a contractual reality - it’ll be buried in the legalese of the contract either way. Then at least Wyndham could hang their hat on “it’s in the contract that you signed.”


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[HitchHiker71]

I wish Wyndham had used Guaranteed Exit via Ovations line when they sold me! I would have made a guaranteed exit through the door and saved myself a ton of money!

Wyndham also tried something similar to this in the past contractually, I believe it was called Pathways, but it only lasted for a relatively short period of time.


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[Braindead]

Wyndham also tried something similar to this in the past contractually, I believe it was called Pathways, but it only lasted for a relatively short period of time.

I believe owners get 20% of their purchase price back with Pathways. I believe it only lasted 2-3 years.

Here’s another shocker to dgalati & others, when I called Ovations they informed me that one of my contracts was sold with Pathways as an option for exit.
Ovations transferred to me to the appropriate department & of course I didn’t get the 20% as the contract was a resale.
The original owner could’ve received over $20,000 instead of paying an exit company thousands to get out, sad but true!!

My point is Ovations will point out Pathways 20% back even if the owner doesn’t inquire about Pathways.