Wyndham Resale vs Developer Points:

[Ecelso]

I have been gathering understanding of resales vs developer for club wyndham, but I am still not sure that what I know is valid... can someone please validate the below and add/modify the understanding? Many thanks

Developer:
- will cost $$$ much more than resales point (CON)
- can be used to gain VIP status (PRO)
- has RCI (PRO)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- can deposit points into RCI (PRO)​

Resale:
- can be bought from $1 to several $k (PROP)
- cannot be used to gain VIP (CON)
- has RCI membership (PRO)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- can deposit points to Rci but can only get RCI weeks in return
- cannot book WM Resorts (CON)

Both:
- can be of CWS (deeded) or CWA (non-deeded)
- home resort booking can be done 13 in advance of check-in date
- all non-home resort can book 10 month in advanced of check-in date
- have 4PM checking (unless is VIP)
- do not have late check out (unless having Wyndam credit card with VIP)
- cannot request upgrade or specific room (unless is VIP)
- can use ovation program to give back/cancel points/membership
- get 1 transaction credit per 77K points (unless is VIP)
- can book presidential stay

Unknown:
- can developer points book in worldmark resorts?
- can either resale or developer point access II membership?

Other: ?

 

[JohnPaul]

The only thing I can respond to is that you CANNOT book WM with resale.

 

[dgalati]

I have been gathering understanding of resales vs developer for club wyndham, but I am still not sure that what I know is valid... can someone please validate the below and add/modify the understanding? Many thanks

Developer:
- will cost $$$ much more than resales point (CON)
- can be used to gain VIP status (PRO)
- has RCI (PRO)
- can achieve II with VIP (PRO)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- can deposit points into RCI (PRO)​

Resale:
- can be bought from $1 to several $k (PROP)
- cannot be used to gain VIP (PRO)
- has RCI membership (PRO)
- does not have II membership (CON)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- cannot deposit points into RCI (CON)

Both:
- can be of CWS (deeded) or CWA (non-deeded)
- home resort booking can be done 13 in advance of check-in date
- all non-home resort can book 10 month in advanced of check-in date
- have 4PM checking (unless is VIP)
- do not have late check out (unless having Wyndam credit card with VIP)
- cannot request upgrade or specific room (unless is VIP)
- can use ovation program to give back/cancel points/membership
- get 1 transaction credit per 77K points (unless is VIP)

Unknown:
- can book in worldmark resorts?
- can book presidential stay?

Other: ?

Buying resale you can rent in the 60 day window from a VIP cheaper then owning and paying maintenance fees on you own points.

 

[HDiaz1]

I have been gathering understanding of resales vs developer for club wyndham, but I am still not sure that what I know is valid... can someone please validate the below and add/modify the understanding? Many thanks

Developer:
- will cost $$$ much more than resales point (CON)
- can be used to gain VIP status (PRO)
- has RCI (PRO)
- can achieve II with VIP (PRO)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- can deposit points into RCI (PRO)​

Resale:
- can be bought from $1 to several $k (PROP)
- cannot be used to gain VIP (CON)
- has RCI membership (PRO)
- does not have II membership (CON)
- can deposit weeks into RCI (PRO)
- cannot deposit points into RCI (CON)

Both:
- can be of CWS (deeded) or CWA (non-deeded)
- home resort booking can be done 13 in advance of check-in date
- all non-home resort can book 10 month in advanced of check-in date
- have 4PM checking (unless is VIP)
- do not have late check out (unless having Wyndam credit card with VIP)
- cannot request upgrade or specific room (unless is VIP)
- can use ovation program to give back/cancel points/membership
- get 1 transaction credit per 77K points (unless is VIP)

Unknown:
- can book in worldmark resorts?
- can book presidential stay?

Other: ?

No, you can not book WM with resale and yes, you can book presidential units.

VIP is not worth it in my opinion. Resale is really the way to go.

 

[capital city]

I believe there are very few contracts that cam give you II access and I dont think it has anything to do with VIP. Also resale can deposit points to Rci but we can only get RCI weeks in return. I dont anything about depositing a week into RCI, guessing that's for people that still own weeks instead of points?

 

[Ecelso]

Buying resale you can rent in the 60 day window from a VIP cheaper then owning and paying maintenance fees on you own points.

Not sure I understand it. Sorry

The only thing I can respond to is that you CANNOT book WM with resale.

I updated the information. thank you!

 

[Ecelso]

I believe there are very few contracts that cam give you II access and I dont think it has anything to do with VIP. Also resale can deposit points to Rci but we can only get RCI weeks in return. I dont anything about depositing a week into RCI, guessing that's for people that still own weeks instead of points?

I updated the info with your response... probably more accurate. thank you!

 

[ronparise]

There is value to vip and I would argue that the only two of the “pros” the op mentions that has any monetary value are the discounted reservations and upgrades. But that value evaporates when compared to the secondary market

A million points purchased from wyndham will cost something like $150000. And MF will be about $7000 a year. Even if done with PIC you still have to buy 500000 points from wyndham with a purchase price of $75000 and pretty close to the same $7000 mf

And what do you get for that? half price for the reservations you make in the 60 days before check in and the possibility of upgrades.

So let’s assume our vip does all his reservations within the 60 day window. A non vip would have to own 2 million points to duplicate the same reservations

So let’s look at 2 guys with $150000 to commit to vacation ownership. One guy spends his $150000 with wyndham to buy a 1000000 point vip account with mf of $7000 a year.

And let’s further assume the other guy buys 2000000 points on the secondary for $10000 and his mf will be $14000 a year. This guy puts his remaining $140000 into 20 year municipal bonds paying $5% or $7000 a year. He uses this $7000 to pay half his mf

At the end of 20 years the vip guy will have spent close to $300000 (purchase price plus mf) and own an asset worth about $5000. And our non vip will have spent the same (purchase price plus mf minus interest on the bond). The difference is he will ha e assets worth $150000 (the timeshare plus the bond)

For me this is a no brainer all the vip benefits can’t come close to the $150000 they cost

 

[chapjim]

There is value to vip and I would argue that the only two of the “pros” the op mentions that has any monetary value are the discounted reservations and upgrades. But that value evaporates when compared to the secondary market

A million points purchased from wyndham will cost something like $150000. And MF will be about $7000 a year. Even if done with PIC you still have to buy 500000 points from wyndham with a purchase price of $75000 and pretty close to the same $7000 mf

And what do you get for that half price for the reservations you make in the 60 days before check in and the possibility of upgrades.

So let’s assume our vip does all his reservations within the 60 day window. A non vip would have to own 2 million points to duplicate the same reservations

So let’s look at 2 guys with $150000 to commit to vacation ownership. One guy spends his $150000 with wyndham to buy a 1000000 point vip account with mf of $7000 a year.

And let’s further assume the other guy buys 2000000 points on the secondary for $10000 and his mf will be $14000 a year. This guy puts his remaining $140000 into 20 year municipal bonds paying $5% or $7000 a year. He uses this $7000 to pay half his mf

At the end of 20 years the vip guy will have spent close to $300000 (purchase price plus mf) and own an asset worth about $5000. And our non vip will have spent the same (purchase price plus mf minus interest on the bond). The difference is he will ha e assets worth $150000 (the timeshare plus the bond)

For me this is a no brainer all the vip benefits can’t cone close to the $150000 they cost

The only comment I would make here is Ron's analysis assumes our hypothetical owners are starting at zero. I doubt there are many folks out there that have no ownership and are thinking about jumping straight to VIP Platinum.

The analysis changes for current owners. The more retail (developer) points a current owner has, the more attractive upgrading to VIP status becomes.

 

[dgalati]

There is value to vip and I would argue that the only two of the “pros” the op mentions that has any monetary value are the discounted reservations and upgrades. But that value evaporates when compared to the secondary market

A million points purchased from wyndham will cost something like $150000. And MF will be about $7000 a year. Even if done with PIC you still have to buy 500000 points from wyndham with a purchase price of $75000 and pretty close to the same $7000 mf

And what do you get for that half price for the reservations you make in the 60 days before check in and the possibility of upgrades.

So let’s assume our vip does all his reservations within the 60 day window. A non vip would have to own 2 million points to duplicate the same reservations

So let’s look at 2 guys with $150000 to commit to vacation ownership. One guy spends his $150000 with wyndham to buy a 1000000 point vip account with mf of $7000 a year.

And let’s further assume the other guy buys 2000000 points on the secondary for $10000 and his mf will be $14000 a year. This guy puts his remaining $140000 into 20 year municipal bonds paying $5% or $7000 a year. He uses this $7000 to pay half his mf

At the end of 20 years the vip guy will have spent close to $300000 (purchase price plus mf) and own an asset worth about $5000. And our non vip will have spent the same (purchase price plus mf minus interest on the bond). The difference is he will ha e assets worth $150000 (the timeshare plus the bond)

For me this is a no brainer all the vip benefits can’t cone close to the $150000 they cost

Ron I am curious to know what would your analysis on renting instead of owning be? Assume 1/2 the vacations are booked in the 60 day discount window the others 60 days plus.

 

[ronparise]

Ron I am curious to know what would your analysis on renting instead of owning be? Assume 1/2 the vacations are booked in the 60 day discount window the others 60 days plus.

I don’t think there is any difference between renting in the 60 day window or not. Every owner I knew that rented, based their prices on the market, not on price per point.

Having said that, I know that there are owners that just want some help with their mf and they will take whatever you offer. I just don’t think you can count on finding them and getting what you want at the last minute

Now, if you are a last minute kinda guy and you don’t care where you stay I’d be looking at the last minute RCI inventory. Are they still $300 a week?

I own my cars, I don’t lease, I own a boat, I don’t charter, and I own my house, I don’t rent. If I have a choice With timeshares, I’m an owner; a leasor , not a leassee

 

[dgalati]

I don’t think there is any difference between renting in the 60 day window or not. Every owner I knew that rented, based their prices on the market, not on price per point.

Having said that, I know that there are owners that just want some help with their mf and they will take whatever you offer. I just don’t think you can count on finding them and getting what you want at the last minute

Now, if you are a last minute kinda guy and you don’t care where you stay I’d be looking at the last minute RCI inventory. Are they still $300 a week?

I own my cars, I don’t lease, I own a boat, I don’t charter, and I own my house, I don’t rent. If I have a choice with timeshares, I’m an owner; a leasor , not a leassee

RCI Last call is a great deal at $244 per week no points needed for a 1 bedroom at Worldmark Tropicana or Grandview. Current RCI exchange vacation fee $239 for 1 week reservation, plus points needed for a 1 bedroom 77,000 or 105,000 depending on season. The RCI exchange if booked during the off season is 1/2 the number of points it it would have cost a non VIP owner to book a 1 bedroom at the Grand Desert through Wyndham. A 154,000 wyndham points deposit into RCI along with a $478 exchange fee can get up to 2 weeks at the Grand desert or about 1/2 the cost in maintenance fees on the deeds if they were not sold or given back to Wyndham. Not a bad deal if you need more time to plan and had points to deposit into RCI

 

[Braindead]

I am curious to know what would your analysis on renting instead of owning be? Assume 1/2 the vacations are booked in the 60 day discount window the others 60 days plus.

I’m going to ask you politely that you stop posting your rental line until you get more facts from OPs for the following reasons
If you’re betting on discounts you better be willing to stay in studios or the smallest unit at the resort.
Many don’t want studios & that’s why they own timeshares

Almost all on these boards don’t recommend buying Timeshares if you don’t plan many months out.
Your recommendation doesn’t work for the vast majority wanting to stay in a timeshare.

Families expecting 3 or 4 bedrooms to be available are rarely going to find what they want at 60 days or less
Your rental advice couldn’t be worse for individuals with kids, school calendars yet you give it blind every time

You need to understand that you’re recommendation only works for a handful of folks looking to stay in Timeshares so please stop until you know what the prospective buyers needs are

 

[dgalati]

I don’t think there is any difference between renting in the 60 day window or not. Every owner I knew that rented, based their prices on the market, not on price per point.

Having said that, I know that there are owners that just want some help with their mf and they will take whatever you offer. I just don’t think you can count on finding them and getting what you want at the last minute

Now, if you are a last minute kinda guy and you don’t care where you stay I’d be looking at the last minute RCI inventory. Are they still $300 a week?

I own my cars, I don’t lease, I own a boat, I don’t charter, and I own my house, I don’t rent. If I have a choice With timeshares, I’m an owner; a leasor , not a leassee

Thanks Ron I appreciate your input.

 

[dgalati]

There is value to vip and I would argue that the only two of the “pros” the op mentions that has any monetary value are the discounted reservations and upgrades. But that value evaporates when compared to the secondary market

A million points purchased from wyndham will cost something like $150000. And MF will be about $7000 a year. Even if done with PIC you still have to buy 500000 points from wyndham with a purchase price of $75000 and pretty close to the same $7000 mf

And what do you get for that? half price for the reservations you make in the 60 days before check in and the possibility of upgrades.

So let’s assume our vip does all his reservations within the 60 day window. A non vip would have to own 2 million points to duplicate the same reservations

So let’s look at 2 guys with $150000 to commit to vacation ownership. One guy spends his $150000 with wyndham to buy a 1000000 point vip account with mf of $7000 a year.

And let’s further assume the other guy buys 2000000 points on the secondary for $10000 and his mf will be $14000 a year. This guy puts his remaining $140000 into 20 year municipal bonds paying $5% or $7000 a year. He uses this $7000 to pay half his mf

At the end of 20 years the vip guy will have spent close to $300000 (purchase price plus mf) and own an asset worth about $5000. And our non vip will have spent the same (purchase price plus mf minus interest on the bond). The difference is he will ha e assets worth $150000 (the timeshare plus the bond)

For me this is a no brainer all the vip benefits can’t cone close to the $150000 they cost

So your opinion is there is not much value in VIP. What is your opinion about the new Privileges program? Is there any status worth the price being paid to purchase developer points??

 

[jwalk03]

So your opinion is there is not much value in VIP. What is your opinion about the new Privileges program? Is there any status worth the price being paid to purchase developer points??

How could anyone know the answer to this yet, when they haven’t released the details?

 

[chapjim]

So your opinion is there is not much value in VIP. What is your opinion about the new Privileges program? Is there any status worth the price being paid to purchase developer points??

Dominic,

I think you are overrating this "rent from a VIP" thing.

There is a huge difference between renting something from a VIP inside 60 days and renting what you want from a VIP inside 60 days. If a person wants to someplace, any place, on fairly short notice, renting from a VIP may be the answer.

When I book a reservation inside 60 days, I do it with the hope that someone will want it. In a sense, I'm bottom feeding -- booking reservations that no one wanted or someone canceled and hoping that there is one person out there who would like to get what I booked at a very nice price. If there is, fine. If there isn't, that's okay, too.

In addition to perhaps overrating the "rent from a VIP" thing, you are an annoyance. Please give it a rest.

 

[ronparise]

So your opinion is there is not much value in VIP. What is your opinion about the new Privileges program? Is there any status worth the price being paid to purchase developer points??

Understand, I havent owned Wyndham for a while and when I did, my experience was with a lot of points all with platinum "status" and I got discounts and upgrades on almost all my reservations and even then I couldnt justify paying for "status" for small account owners. Now that discounts are possible only in the 60 day window, I cant justify paying for "status" under any circumstances

 

[dgalati]

Understand, I havent owned Wyndham for a while and when I did, my experience was with a lot of points all with platinum "status" and I got discounts and upgrades on almost all my reservations and even then I couldnt justify paying for "status" for small account owners. Now that discounts are possible only in the 60 day window, I cant justify paying for "status" under any circumstances

Thanks again Ron for your opinion on status and or Privilege's.

 

[dgalati]

Dominic,

I think you are overrating this "rent from a VIP" thing.

There is a huge difference between renting something from a VIP inside 60 days and renting what you want from a VIP inside 60 days. If a person wants to someplace, any place, on fairly short notice, renting from a VIP may be the answer.

When I book a reservation inside 60 days, I do it with the hope that someone will want it. In a sense, I'm bottom feeding -- booking reservations that no one wanted or someone canceled and hoping that there is one person out there who would like to get what I booked at a very nice price. If there is, fine. If there isn't, that's okay, too.

In addition to perhaps overrating the "rent from a VIP" thing, you are an annoyance. Please give it a rest.

Thanks Jim I appreciate your comment. What about Privileges do you like the new Vip levels and would you buy for the status ?

 

[dgalati]

How could anyone know the answer to this yet, when they haven’t released the details?

Just asking for a opinion but thanks for Your input JW.

 

[ronparise]

The only comment I would make here is Ron's analysis assumes our hypothetical owners are starting at zero. I doubt there are many folks out there that have no ownership and are thinking about jumping straight to VIP Platinum.

The analysis changes for current owners. The more retail (developer) points a current owner has, the more attractive upgrading to VIP status becomes.

I get that, those owners have already spent a ton of money, The jump to VIP makes sense if the owner can look at the money he spent as a "sunk" cost, because he'll never get it back. To my way of thinking its throwing good money after bad. But thats me, Im always looking for a "Return on Investment"

 

[dgalati]

Dominic,

I think you are overrating this "rent from a VIP" thing.

There is a huge difference between renting something from a VIP inside 60 days and renting what you want from a VIP inside 60 days. If a person wants to someplace, any place, on fairly short notice, renting from a VIP may be the answer.

When I book a reservation inside 60 days, I do it with the hope that someone will want it. In a sense, I'm bottom feeding -- booking reservations that no one wanted or someone canceled and hoping that there is one person out there who would like to get what I booked at a very nice price. If there is, fine. If there isn't, that's okay, too.

In addition to perhaps overrating the "rent from a VIP" thing, you are an annoyance. Please give it a rest.

Jim, I make it work for me but thanks for your input.

 

[ecwinch]

I also ask you politely....

Likewise as a moderator and regular poster, I will ask politely that you stop turning threads into this endless loop debate about renting from a VIP. As you can clearly see from post #6 - you are causing confusion with people trying to get answers to their questions. That is counter-productive to the purpose of TUG. If you value TUG as a resource that people can rely on for finding answers, I hope you will do a better job of moderating your behaviour to avoid the turn this thread has just made.

[Mod Note: Off-topic posts have been deleted]

 

[dgalati]

I get that, those owners have already spent a ton of money, The jump to VIP makes sense if the owner can look at the money he spent as a "sunk" cost, because he'll never get it back. To my way of thinking its throwing good money after bad. But thats me, Im always looking for a "Return on Investment"

Hopefully you get that return on investment. Good luck and make it work for you.