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WYND costs

HitchHiker71

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... so what you're saying is that the posting of a news article about Hertz declaring bankruptcy was a red herring completely off the topic for this thread? Interesting, in a way.

On the thread's topic, Wyndham does collect some income from the management of some of the resorts for the HOAs. I couldn't speculate how much of that is profit for the company. They also get the program fee portion of what owners pay for use in running Club Wyndham. Similar revenue streams exist for the other systems they run (e.g., WorldMark).

If anyone happens to know the gross points in play across all Wyndham resorts (CWS/CWA) this would be fairly easy to reverse engineer. Here’s two pics from the annual owners meeting along this line that I took:

45113b4d549619017649c85ad1f6ca7f.jpg


db83dccd5df037c3188177f4fb9cb6f4.jpg

What I cannot remember is what the scope of the member points owned was. CWA vs CWS for example. But as the second slide shows the revenues from program fee assessments are minimal compared to total revenues, coming in at only 91MM per annum or so (FY 12/31/2018). Given we have estimated their cash burn is 150MM/month at a minimum at present.

If we take the first slide at face value and assume an average MF rate from CWA (what is it these days?), lets use $7/1000 for this analysis:

111B/1000*7=777MM

How much of that does Wyndham skim? Even if we assume 20% - which is probably on the high side, that’s only about $155M or one month of cash burn. Not much really.


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folgema

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Marriott doesn't have any difference between resale and developer. You can get point discounts with resale points., up to 30%. This discount is only if you own 10,000 points, which has an annual MF of $6,300. It's the MF cost that drives people away from Marriott more than the buy-in. A 2 bedroom for a week at Grande Vista (analogous to Bonnet Creek) costs around $1900 a week in their "prime season" using points. It's $1486 using a deed and not paying exchange fees. A 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in the prime season costs $1545 using CWA points.

I don't know exactly why their MF are so high compared to Wyndham. It could be subsidizing defaults or high maintenance costs. They also don't charge reservation transactions, housekeeping credits or guest certificates to help offset MF costs. If I were to ever buy DC trust points, it would be for the sole purpose of short stays because of not having to worry about housekeeping. Lakeshore reserve is the best Orlando timeshare property in all systems including DVC in my opinion. The theming is beautiful and you have access to JW and Ritz-Carleton amenities.

I'm just saying if Wyndham needed to change the resale rules to stay afloat, they should charge a per point "validation" fee and allow current resale owners the ability to book Club Pass and make any new owners pay it as well. They could give non VIP benefits to "validated" resale points. I don't think they should let resale points count towards VIP, but I don't think they'll step on too many toes of VIP members to let resale owners use Club Pass. It's not like we can't just buy WM resale to bypass the block. I would still probably just buy a small WM account anyways just because renting points from other owners is really easy using WMowners.com, but if they changed the rules about renting actual points from other owners, I would probably eventually spend the couple grand to have full access to WM with a CW membership just because it's easier to keep track of just 1 membership and all the rules vs 2 memberships. WM is nothing like CW and it takes a lot of reading and researching to understand how to efficiently be a member of both clubs.

WM has a completely different system with how to calculate MF. It's calculated based on how much you own in intervals of 2,500 credits. So when you are buying credits, 8,000 credits have the same MF as 10,000 credits, so you have to be really careful the amount that you buy. Cleaning every unit size costs exactly 1 housekeeping token and you only get 1 token per 10,000 credits you own. The cash cost to clean each size does vary though. I know it's $66 for studios and $87 for one bedrooms, but I don't have any other numbers memorized. So if you stay 2 nights in a 3 bedroom or 2 nights in a studio both cost 1 token, but it's about $100 more in cash to clean the 3 bedroom. I think a lot of resale only owners would fork over some money to have access to Club Pass for convenience over being a member of 2 clubs and having to learn all of their differences.
Is there a forum for advice on buying WM for a CW resale owner? I am all resale, and don't really care about VIP. But, I am interested in figuring out the best way to get access to WM. Thanks!
 

Eric B

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There is a separate Worldmark forum that is a good starting place. There is also a different site used by Worldmark owners:

 

cbyrne1174

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100% resale!!
Is there a forum for advice on buying WM for a CW resale owner? I am all resale, and don't really care about VIP. But, I am interested in figuring out the best way to get access to WM. Thanks!

If you only need 1 reservation a year, just find a 5k account for $569/year. It comes with 1 housekeeping token a year; any extra stays, you will have to pay for a cleaning. Credits usually rent out for $65 per thousand, so a 10,000 credit reservation will cost you $895 in combination with renting 5k and owning 5k. A 12,000 credit rental will cost $1025 by owning 5k and renting 7k. MF are $1087 for 12,000 credits and still only gives you 1 HK token. That's why I suggest owning 5k and renting whatever you need extra.

If you plan on staying on average at least 2 weeks a year using WM, then 20,000 credits makes the most sense because you only get 1 housekeeping token per ten thousand. 3 Weeks would be 30,000 credits. If you want only 1 week a year but don't want to have to rely on renting credits off others, you can get a 10,000 credit acount for $915 a year. The reason why renting credits is something that you can easily do with WM is because MF are calculated in a way where the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. A lot of people will own huge accounts and rent out what they don't need.

You can also use their inventory special and bonus time inventory for $72 per thousand plus tax. That includes housekeeping. It's good for short stays because then you don't have to waste a housekeeping token. I want my WM account to get bonus time at Reunion. It's the nicest Wyndham in Orlando and only has 3 bedroom units, so every time I want to stay I have to use up 140 housekeeping credit.

Any time you do an owner update, you can argue that with a dual resale ownership, you get 100% access to both clubs as well as Interval Invernational. All the good WM units are next to impossible to book with club pass at 9 months because owners have them reserved 13 months out. WM also has waitlisting where a WM owner will get the unit before someone can book it with club pass because as soon as the person who has it reserved cancels, the waitlist person scoops it up. Club Pass is pretty useless and charges a $99 booking fee. No matter what your VIP status is, you can't get access to WM at the 13 month window when the good units book and you can't get access to Marriott through II. If that's what you care about, a retail purchase is pointless. That argument always gets me gifted with an AMEX within 10 minutes of the video presentation being over. Either that or I say "I'm planning on getting two 3 bedroom PICs and using Telesales to get VIP gold for a 200,000 point purchase at $134 per thousand", then ask if they have anything cheaper for permanent VIP Gold. Since they can't offer you anything cheaper, they usually just try to push a basic package on you, then you say you're not willing to pay more than Telesales prices at $134 per thousand. I keep the Telesales number in my phone and say the person I spoke with when I called this number quoted me $134 a few months ago.
 

geist1223

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folgema

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If you only need 1 reservation a year, just find a 5k account for $569/year. It comes with 1 housekeeping token a year; any extra stays, you will have to pay for a cleaning. Credits usually rent out for $65 per thousand, so a 10,000 credit reservation will cost you $895 in combination with renting 5k and owning 5k. A 12,000 credit rental will cost $1025 by owning 5k and renting 7k. MF are $1087 for 12,000 credits and still only gives you 1 HK token. That's why I suggest owning 5k and renting whatever you need extra.

If you plan on staying on average at least 2 weeks a year using WM, then 20,000 credits makes the most sense because you only get 1 housekeeping token per ten thousand. 3 Weeks would be 30,000 credits. If you want only 1 week a year but don't want to have to rely on renting credits off others, you can get a 10,000 credit acount for $915 a year. The reason why renting credits is something that you can easily do with WM is because MF are calculated in a way where the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. A lot of people will own huge accounts and rent out what they don't need.

You can also use their inventory special and bonus time inventory for $72 per thousand plus tax. That includes housekeeping. It's good for short stays because then you don't have to waste a housekeeping token. I want my WM account to get bonus time at Reunion. It's the nicest Wyndham in Orlando and only has 3 bedroom units, so every time I want to stay I have to use up 140 housekeeping credit.

Any time you do an owner update, you can argue that with a dual resale ownership, you get 100% access to both clubs as well as Interval Invernational. All the good WM units are next to impossible to book with club pass at 9 months because owners have them reserved 13 months out. WM also has waitlisting where a WM owner will get the unit before someone can book it with club pass because as soon as the person who has it reserved cancels, the waitlist person scoops it up. Club Pass is pretty useless and charges a $99 booking fee. No matter what your VIP status is, you can't get access to WM at the 13 month window when the good units book and you can't get access to Marriott through II. If that's what you care about, a retail purchase is pointless. That argument always gets me gifted with an AMEX within 10 minutes of the video presentation being over. Either that or I say "I'm planning on getting two 3 bedroom PICs and using Telesales to get VIP gold for a 200,000 point purchase at $134 per thousand", then ask if they have anything cheaper for permanent VIP Gold. Since they can't offer you anything cheaper, they usually just try to push a basic package on you, then you say you're not willing to pay more than Telesales prices at $134 per thousand. I keep the Telesales number in my phone and say the person I spoke with when I called this number quoted me $134 a few months ago.
Thank you, thank you!
 
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