Wow. Cartel violence and apology

[Cornell]

Four Americans kidnapped in Mexico have lengthy rap sheets

Four U.S. citizens who were kidnapped in Mexico by the notorious criminal and drug syndicate Gulf Cartel have lengthy criminal rap sheets.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Oh yes there is. I will never return to Seattle and Portland, 2 of my favorite cities before they became what they are now.

So I presume that you have entirely eliminated visits to anywhere in the Pacific Northwest? Have you also removed California from your travel list?

By the way, one person does not make a "drum roll". I used that phrase specifically to convey more of a multitude, such as we hear in comments about Mexico.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Four Americans kidnapped in Mexico have lengthy rap sheets

Four U.S. citizens who were kidnapped in Mexico by the notorious criminal and drug syndicate Gulf Cartel have lengthy criminal rap sheets.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yeah - makes one wonder whether they really down there for just a tummy tuck.

 

[DebBrown]

A few years back we exchanged into a nice resort in Mazatlan. I had always wanted to go. But we heard gunshots from our room most nights and the day we took a tour, the cartel dropped bodies in front of the American embassy. We survived to tell our stories but it definitely soured me on returning.

 

[zentraveler]

Crazy as it sounds what mostly keeps me from Mexico is the airports. - all of them in my experience . Many hours spent snaking through immigration (multiple US planes landing all at once into a hot, crowded, airless immigration area, even during covid) and only slightly better leaving.

I would like to see some of the less touristy areas of Mexico, butI when I add it all up there just seem to be better places to travel for us. Completely get it why some love it.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

A few years back we exchanged into a nice resort in Mazatlan. I had always wanted to go. But we heard gunshots from our room most nights and the day we took a tour, the cartel dropped bodies in front of the American embassy. We survived to tell our stories but it definitely soured me on returning.

Understandable. There are places in the US I will not go, just as there are places in Mexico I will not go. There are places I would love to visit in Ukraine, and there are places I certainly would not visit in Ukraine.

 

[easyrider]

Oh yes there is. I will never return to Seattle and Portland, 2 of my favorite cities before they became what they are now.

We rarely go to down town Seattle or Portland as a special trip anymore. It seems like the only times we have in recent years is because we are already there visiting others in the hospitals. It's not as bad as what you see on tv. In fact, there are only a couple of places in either city that I would avoid after dark.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I think the Cartel apology is an attempt by the cartel to stay alive. It seems there is discussions ongoing wanting to label the cartels terrorists so they can round them up.

Bill

 

[zentraveler]

We rarely go to down town Seattle or Portland as a special trip anymore. It seems like the only times we have in recent years is because we are already there visiting others in the hospitals. It's not as bad as what you see on tv. In fact, there are only a couple of places in either city that I would avoid after dark.

Bill

I live in San Francisco and we get a lot of bad press too but I still travel happily all around the city as I always have.

My issue with Mexico is not safety. I am only going to go to tourist destinations. My beef with Mexico is that it is that getting into and out of there is such an unpleasant experience. And, it seems to me, needlessly. Do they really need to pile 5 full planes into a completely crappy immigration area to save money on staffing? If I could get pleasantly (relatively of course) into and out of Mexico I would go. Have had too many miserable experiences over too many years.

 

[Ken555]

Going to a foreign country has inherently greater risk for us since

1. We are not fluent in the local language.
2. We are not as familiar with local customs (ie. when do we bribe the police again?).
3. Government and police services are different (I’m not saying better, just different), and lack of full understanding can impact our ability to react in an emergency.
4. Health care is a challenge, requires advance understanding and preparation (ie. money, since they won’t accept our insurance); travel insurance may help.

Etc.

I don’t need to think of any of these issues when traveling anywhere in the US.

Those of you who try to paint the false equivalency of anywhere in the US being less safe than Mexico need to understand that there’s more than just violence to consider. Of course it’s dangerous in the US, but that doesn’t mean it’s safer in Mexico.

I have numerous friends that visit Mexico regularly (and I was there last year, too) but that doesn’t mean it’s for everyone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

I live in San Francisco and we get a lot of bad press too but I still travel happily all around the city as I always have.

My issue with Mexico is not safety. I am only going to go to tourist destinations. My beef with Mexico is that it is that getting into and out of there is such an unpleasant experience. And, it seems to me, needlessly. Do they really need to pile 5 full planes into a completely crappy immigration area to save money on staffing? If I could get pleasantly (relatively of course) into and out of Mexico I would go. Have had too many miserable experiences over too many years.

I get that. I remember those long immigration and customs lines not to mention waiting for a cab or shuttle. This year they did away with part of the arrival process but there was still a large crowd and it still took 45 minutes. Arrival is one of the worse part of going to Mexico.

Bill

 

[DeniseM]

This thread seems to be veering toward political comments/dog whistles - don't go there.

 

[Tacoma]

Driving across the border in an area known to be an area with drug cartel activity is very different than flying into a tourist region that the government wants to keep safe. I love Mexico and will continue to go whenever possible. I have never felt unsafe and I do know the numbers of murders in the country and yes it is horrific. Is ther a chance that something could happen when we're down there yes but random violence happens in US cities as well. Like always when you travel make smart choices don't get involved in illegal activities, don't flash cash or valuables around, don't drink too much, and keep your wits about you. This has worked for me everywhere I have travelled so far.

 

[dioxide45]

We will be going to Cancun in May and have been to the RM area a lot. Our biggest issue with Mexico is the aggravation of just having to navigate around tourist areas, especially local vendors in tourist destinations. We did a cruise last year that stopped in Cozumel and when we got back to the ship my wife and I both said it was an aggravating experience. Vendors constantly trying to get you to come into their shop, then when you are in there they follow you around trying to push one thing after the other on you. Then when you go back out of the store, the next vendor is trying to get you into theirs. We fully understand this is how things seem to be done there, but they don't seem to understand how tourists prefer to shop. We don't want the constant barrage, just leave us alone.

 

[VacationForever]

So I presume that you have entirely eliminated visits to anywhere in the Pacific Northwest? Have you also removed California from your travel list?

By the way, one person does not make a "drum roll". I used that phrase specifically to convey more of a multitude, such as we hear in comments about Mexico.

I have also eliminated San Francisco. Never liked LA so that is irrelevant. We continue to visit Palm Desert area. No issue there.

 

[slip]

We will be going to Cancun in May and have been to the RM area a lot. Our biggest issue with Mexico is the aggravation of just having to navigate around tourist areas, especially local vendors in tourist destinations. We did a cruise last year that stopped in Cozumel and when we got back to the ship my wife and I both said it was an aggravating experience. Vendors constantly trying to get you to come into their shop, then when you are in there they follow you around trying to push one thing after the other on you. Then when you go back out of the store, the next vendor is trying to get you into theirs. We fully understand this is how things seem to be done there, but they don't seem to understand how tourists prefer to shop. We don't want the constant barrage, just leave us alone.

Yes, it doesn't exactly make for a relaxing vacation as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Patri]

Only two states in Mexico have no travel advisories of any kind. That is unsettling.

 

[billymach4]

All of this discussion is a true reflection of our current state of society.
Just surprised that NYC in this discussion has not made the blacklist.

I am just happy I no longer live or work in the confines of NYC.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have a good friend whose wife has extended family in Mexico. (Her parents came across the border; she has lived her entire life in the US.)

For the last several years that have regularly attend family reunions in Troncones, up the coast a ways from Zihua. Guerrero is a very active drug smuggling area. During those visits they regularly are out and about, outside of the tourist zones. My friend started out very apprehensive, but now loves it there. Or course, it's aided by the fact that they are out and about with relatives who are Mexican nationals. But, he said, what is stressed is that if you don't mess with the cartels they don't mess with you. That's the "understanding".

But that means you need to know the boundaries and be able to recognize potentially dangerous situations. And that's where travelers from other areas are at a disadvantage.

****************

We recognize and appreciate that situation. So, when we are on our own, we restrict ourselves to areas that we know are safe. When we go outside those areas, we do it as part of tour led by someone who does know the area. But we look for tours that go outside the traditional tourist itineraries so that we can get outside of the tourist areas.

Also, we never drive a vehicle. In some of our early visits to MX, we rented a vehicle. We drove around Cabo, locally and to Todos Santos, and part of the way up the coast NE of San José del Cabo. Also twice we rented a car in Puerto Vallarta, driving into town (and parking), going out to Boca and to the Botanical Garden. A wonderful trip we made one time was a Saturday day trip to Tepic, the capital of Nayarit. Saturday is market day, so the central square was filled with vendors, including many Huichol artists selling their arts and crafts. Prices half of the Huichol galleries in PV charged, but without the middlemen, the artists made a lot more money. Way outside the tourist zones - where little English is spoken.

While renting a car we never had any issues, never had to give a policeman or traffic cop a mordida. But after getting more familiar with the situation, I decided the potential complications weren't worth the risks, so now any travel we do is with a driver. I would love to do a trip again like our Tepic trip, but now I would hire a driver for the day, and have the driver take us to other places that you wouldn't know about if you weren't a local. Could be a particularly nice park, a wonderful local restaurant, a beautiful church or shrine, etc.

So now when we move around in MX, it's buses, taxis, and tour vans for us. And the buses in MX are pretty good and very inexpensive. The city buses are a kick, and the interurbans we've been on are comfortable.

***************

I stress that is us, and how we address the safety situation. But I feel we can address the situation, and get to experience something of what MX is outside the tourist zones. Because for us, if we go to MX, and the only places we visits are locales that simply cater to North American tourists, then we've lost a significant part of what international travel is all about.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have also eliminated San Francisco. Never liked LA so that is irrelevant. We continue to visit Palm Desert area. No issue there.

Did you miss my point? You are writing off all of MX because of perceived dangers in some locales, then if you perceive similar dangers in San Fran or Portland or Seattle, by the same logic you should write write off all of the western US, (including Palm Desert).

But if you are willing to say that Palm Desert is OK because it's not SF, then is it possible that there are areas of MX that are OK because they are not Ciudad Juarez, or Matamoros (or name the other MX city of your choice)?

 

[VacationForever]

Did you miss my point? You are writing off all of MX because of perceived dangers in some locales, then if you perceive similar dangers in San Fran or Portland or Seattle, by the same logic you should write write off all of the western US, (including Palm Desert).

But if you are willing to say that Palm Desert is OK because it's not SF, then is it possible that there are areas of MX that are OK because they are not Ciudad Juarez, or Matamoros (or name the other MX city of your choice)?

We love Cancun and would go back at least once every 2 years if not for the cartel or kidnapping issue. We don't deem Cancun to be safe anymore. We also enjoyed Cabo and also consider it unsafe now. We have no desire to go anywhere else in Mexico, so we are not going to Mexico, period. You are missing my point.

 

[holdaer]

As Yogi Berra would say, no one wants to go to Mexico because it's too crowded

 

[The Colorado Kid]

As Yogi Berra would say, no one wants to go to Mexico because it's too crowded

I would think this latest act of brutality would cause many to reconsider...oh wait tho...there was that apology note so maybe no impact after all.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

Did you miss my point? You are writing off all of MX because of perceived dangers in some locales, then if you perceive similar dangers in San Fran or Portland or Seattle, by the same logic you should write write off all of the western US, (including Palm Desert).

But if you are willing to say that Palm Desert is OK because it's not SF, then is it possible that there are areas of MX that are OK because they are not Ciudad Juarez, or Matamoros (or name the other MX city of your choice)?

Respectfully how would I possibly know which MX cities are safe/not safe? MX has lawlessness and police corruption/complicity not matched in other countries I choose to travel to. Not willing to put my family at risk for such an unknown.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

We have visited Matamoros twice.These were our first two visits to Mexico

Both times were day trips while on vacation in South Texas.
The first was in 1995 / 96 when we went to San Antonio and then the beach area in Corpus Christi
The second 1999 when we stayed on South Padre Island.

We had rental cars and were told (when renting) that Mexican visits required addional insurance.

We parked in a pay lot in Brownsville and took a US cab to the cental square in Matamoros. That cab driver told us to take a Mexican cab
back to the border and to walk across the bridge into Texas. That is what we did

Our first visit was within a year of the Mexican peso crisis. and you could sense the decline in income that had resulted..
On our second visit you could see an improvement. On both visits we stayed within a few blocks of the cenral square and church ; which is were
the buinesses that catered to tourists were located.

7 years later we went to Puerto Vallarta for my youngest cousin's wedding ...........


I agree with @T_R_Oglodyte

But that means you need to know the boundaries and be able to recognize potentially dangerous situations. And that's where travelers from other areas are at a disadvantage.

****************
We recognize and appreciate that situation. So, when we are on our own, we restrict ourselves to areas that we know are safe. When we go outside those areas, we do it as part of tour led by someone who does know the area. ...
Also, we never drive a vehicle. In some of our early visits to MX, we rented a vehicle.........While renting a car we never had any issues, never had to give a policeman or traffic cop a mordida. But after getting more familiar with the situation, I decided the potential complications weren't worth the risks, so now any travel we do is with a driver......
So now when we move around in MX, it's buses, taxis, and tour vans for us. And the buses in MX are pretty good and very inexpensive. The city buses are a kick, and the interurbans we've been on are comfortable

***************
I stress that is us, and how we address the safety situation. But I feel we can address the situation, and get to experience something of what MX is outside the tourist zones. Because for us, if we go to MX, and the only places we visits are locales that simply cater to North American tourists, then we've lost a significant part of what international travel is all about.

We fly back to mid-March Cdn. winter in 2 days / after 42 days of sunshine and warmth in PV Mexico.
Yesterday I booked through RCI a Feb. 2024 week at Club Regina PV