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Wow. Cartel violence and apology

sponger76

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We will be going to Cancun in May and have been to the RM area a lot. Our biggest issue with Mexico is the aggravation of just having to navigate around tourist areas, especially local vendors in tourist destinations. We did a cruise last year that stopped in Cozumel and when we got back to the ship my wife and I both said it was an aggravating experience. Vendors constantly trying to get you to come into their shop, then when you are in there they follow you around trying to push one thing after the other on you. Then when you go back out of the store, the next vendor is trying to get you into theirs. We fully understand this is how things seem to be done there, but they don't seem to understand how tourists prefer to shop. We don't want the constant barrage, just leave us alone.
This is exactly what I don't like about touristy areas in Mexico and some other countries around the world. I would also include the "vendors" walking up and down the beaches. If I'm trying to just bask in the sun on the sand, the last thing I want is to be bothered by someone walking up trying to sell me useless crap. I don't want to be hassled. If I'm thinking about possibly buying stuff, I'll come to you, and I'll quietly browse. The more you pester me, the less inclined I am to buy from you.
 

dioxide45

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This is exactly what I don't like about touristy areas in Mexico and some other countries around the world. I would also include the "vendors" walking up and down the beaches. If I'm trying to just bask in the sun on the sand, the last thing I want is to be bothered by someone walking up trying to sell me useless crap. I don't want to be hassled. If I'm thinking about possibly buying stuff, I'll come to you, and I'll quietly browse. The more you pester me, the less inclined I am to buy from you.
One time in Cozumel my wife and I were walking through the cruise port and one of the jewelry stores had a guy sitting outside. He said I needed to come in and buy my wife something. I replied "she doesn't deserve it". His face dropped, he had no response. We both got a laugh out of it.
 

CalGalTraveler

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In Cabo our resorts had a rope on the beach marking out the edge of the property on the sand. Vendors were not allowed to come into the resort area to sell to the beach-goers. Vendors sat outside so visitors could decide if they wanted to buy something, they could go to them.

Although there were some hawkers at restaurants and shops, We could just pass by them and ignore. Not as bad as Vegas with people on sidewalk handing out tickets to comedy or strip shows. Wasn't a problem.
 

easyrider

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Respectfully how would I possibly know which MX cities are safe/not safe? MX has lawlessness and police corruption/complicity not matched in other countries I choose to travel to. Not willing to put my family at risk for such an unknown.

How the aprox 66 million international tourists that go to Mexico each year know where the safe places are is they go. I do understand the many reasons why many people don't go to Mexico or have went once and are never going back. In our circle of retired people there are more than a few that have moved to Mexico full time to Lake Chapala, La Paz, Los Cabos, Riviera Maya , Banderas Bay and other places.

To give an ideal of risk factor there were over 66 million International tourist that went to Mexico last year and maybe 3000 tourist deaths of all causes. So maybe a .000045% risk factor.

To put the risk factor in perspective there were maybe 1,200,000 tourist that went to Hawaii. About 52 tourist deaths. So maybe a .000043% risk of death.

I think traffic accident and heart attack are the leading causes of death on all vacations. Even so, the risk is almost zero that a person will die on a vacation anywhere.

Bill
 
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klpca

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Everyone sees risk differently, and even different risks differently. No. Big. Deal. There are a lot of places to visit. Do what works for you and, unless you are paying their bills, let others make their own choices.
 

easyrider

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Everyone sees risk differently, and even different risks differently. No. Big. Deal. There are a lot of places to visit. Do what works for you and, unless you are paying their bills, let others make their own choices.

I really don't care where any of you go as long as we aren't competing for the same exchange, lol.

Bill
 

Arusso

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I love how the first article says that to solve the problem we should close the border. The problem is that the US public is the largest single consumer market for what the cartels are selling. The only way to solve the problem is to reduce demand. Otherwise, the "invisible hand of the market" will always win.
You make some good points that all too often go overlooked by policymakers. It is a fact that US culture changed radically during the cultural revolution of the 1960s. The more libertarian (i.e. acceptable) norms toward human sexual activity, authority and tradition were embraced and accepted. Along with this most certainly involved celebrities openly using drugs and the entertainment industry not only glamorizing drug use but capitalizing on distribution of this new cultural norm in its work products distributed in the media outlets. here we are a half-century later and due to conflicting messaging and frank malfeasance on the part of government to protect its borders and citizens, drug producers around the globe have found our porous southern border a very lucrative enterprise for the migration of people from around the world and illegal drugs. Most of the illegal drug tonnage enters through legal ports of entry. This is hardly discussed. You are correct in observing that until US culture begins to wean itself off of its insatiable desire to use recreational stupefacient, addicting recreational drugs, the producers and distributors will find ways to push the product onto American street corners and Americans will continue to die. A recent observation was made by former SOS, Gen. Mike Pompeo: more Americans have been killed each year by fentanyl-laced drugs than any year during WWII.

The second point is Mexico itself as a convenient conduit. I lived in Mexico for several years and learned its history, language and customs. I got to appreciate the struggles the Mexican people have endured since they gained independence from Spain in 1821. Regrettably and despite several attempts to reform its governance, the Mexican people have not been able to do so. Mexico, much as other Latin-American nations, cannot seem to shed a cast system where the upper class rules with absolute authority. It has failed, despite rich natural resources and a hard-working labor force, to implement equality of opportunity to gain access and share the nations patrimony. Illegal drug producing and distribution a half-century ago was a nuisance. Today it's one of Mexico's largest exports. The governance structure of Mexico was modeled after the US - where power (or access to it) is obtained with money. It is no surprise that the drug trafficking's industry, while illegal under Mexican law, contributes to the political lives of its leaders at all levels of authority. It has become their life blood. That's the reality. But this blog has to do with vacationing, not political science.

Because of the escalation of cartel inner fighting for more control of real estate, several previously safer places to travel within Mexico are now more problematic. While is is also true the presence of Mexican government security forces of the army, national guard, federal, state and local police have ramped up patrols along the Cancun - Riviera Maya corridor, PV, etc. In reality, venturing out on your own in these areas is not as safe as it once was. The unfortunate analogy right here at home are the violent crimes of homicides, rapes and carjackings along with burglaries, shoplifting, arson, etc, etc. yet people still visit NYC, Chicago, San Fran, etc........ In the end, each traveler and vacationer must do their due diligence to stay informed and seriously consider travel advisories. The one thing is certain - if leisure travel to Mexico from the US tanks, the Mexican government will be forced to tke an aggressive posture.
 

douglasmhines

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I am saying this as a person that lives part-time in Mexico, you couldn't pay me to cross the Texas / Mexico border. This issue is nothing new to that area, and has been going on for decades. If you felt safe in whatever area you went to, this should not change your plans because it is exactly the same as the last time you went. That said, everyone has a right to choose. I will be crossing the border tomorrow and will be staying the weekend . . . need to get some dental work done and there are tons of mariscos calling to me :LOL:

I pass every month at Mexicali, and I can tell you it is a 100x safer in Mexicali than the greater Los Angeles area.
 
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douglasmhines

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My husband had to go to Reynosa for work - that was definitely unsafe. His co-worker was staying at the Holiday Inn, waiting for a shuttle and witnessed a shooting. How his company ever thought it was safe for employees to stay there is beyond me. There are places that we won't go - Tijuana and Reynosa for sure. We aren't particularly worried about Cabo and PV.
McAllen sector is nuts. I think that is probably the most dangerous section of the border. Between Juarez and there, they are both horrible . . . but I think Reynosa is worse. I hope your husband doesn't go the next time they ask.
 

easyrider

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Until we (america) control the border to stop illegal immigration and stop demanding illegal drugs, it is stupid to to an all out war on the cartels. Wether we like it or not, the demand is there for the services they provide, and someone will fill the void. The process of filling the void is ugly, it would literally start a civil war in mexico; and it wouldn't improve the situation on the USA side of the border.

Just like how it happened here in the USA past with our violent criminals getting rich and wealthy it's happening in Mexico. I think they will eventually go legit and become the Rockefellers of Mexico. It really isn't in their interest to screw with tourists as they are buying legitimate business.

There was talk of naming the cartels as terrorists because of the fentanyl situation is what I read. Really, if it stays business as usual we can expect to see many Americans die next year. About 107,000 Americans died last year from fentanyl.

Bill
 

douglasmhines

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Just like how it happened here in the USA past with our violent criminals getting rich and wealthy it's happening in Mexico. I think they will eventually go legit and become the Rockefellers of Mexico. It really isn't in their interest to screw with tourists as they are buying legitimate business.

There was talk of naming the cartels as terrorists because of the fentanyl situation is what I read. Really, if it stays business as usual we can expect to see many Americans die next year. About 107,000 Americans died last year from fentanyl.

Bill
I agree, fentanyl is a huge issue. My brother was an addict, until that drug killed him a few years ago. The worst part is, none of the users want fentanyl, but it is so cheap they cut it into everything; because the addicts aren't used to fentanyl, it can easily kill them. I am not saying nothing should be done, just saying we need to avoid knee jerk reactions and think it all the way through.
 

easyrider

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I agree, fentanyl is a huge issue. My brother was an addict, until that drug killed him a few years ago. The worst part is, none of the users want fentanyl, but it is so cheap they cut it into everything; because the addicts aren't used to fentanyl, it can easily kill them. I am not saying nothing should be done, just saying we need to avoid knee jerk reactions and think it all the way through.

Sorry to hear about your bro.

Bill
 

Arusso

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In Cabo our resorts had a rope on the beach marking out the edge of the property on the sand. Vendors were not allowed to come into the resort area to sell to the beach-goers. Vendors sat outside so visitors could decide if they wanted to buy something, they could go to them.

Although there were some hawkers at restaurants and shops, We could just pass by them and ignore. Not as bad as Vegas with people on sidewalk handing out tickets to comedy or strip shows. Wasn't a problem.
In Mexico, all beaches are public. The rope marks the demarcation point. This in contrast to Jamaica and other nations in the Caribbean as well as Spain, France and Italy that have beach resorts where there is a mix of public and private beaches.
 

bjones9942

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I agree, fentanyl is a huge issue. My brother was an addict, until that drug killed him a few years ago. The worst part is, none of the users want fentanyl, but it is so cheap they cut it into everything; because the addicts aren't used to fentanyl, it can easily kill them. I am not saying nothing should be done, just saying we need to avoid knee jerk reactions and think it all the way through.

My sister is an addict but doctor shops to get pharmaceuticals (and then supplements those from dealers). For years she was able to get fentanyl transdermal patches - but I think her doctor was reviewed and they made her go to a pain management clinic to get her off them. She's one of the abusers who wants the fentanyl. She even grew her own poppies. Drugs and alcohol killed my sister and left a body that walks and talks and will steal your last penny without a second thought. I haven't seen or talked to her in years and, while sad, it's much better for my mental health.
 

easyrider

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My sister is an addict but doctor shops to get pharmaceuticals (and then supplements those from dealers). For years she was able to get fentanyl transdermal patches - but I think her doctor was reviewed and they made her go to a pain management clinic to get her off them. She's one of the abusers who wants the fentanyl. She even grew her own poppies. Drugs and alcohol killed my sister and left a body that walks and talks and will steal your last penny without a second thought. I haven't seen or talked to her in years and, while sad, it's much better for my mental health.

That's a bummer bj. One of my friends 35 year old son lucked out because narcan is otc here. It's a nasal spray that can revive opiate overdose.

Bill
 

douglasmhines

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My sister is an addict but doctor shops to get pharmaceuticals (and then supplements those from dealers). For years she was able to get fentanyl transdermal patches - but I think her doctor was reviewed and they made her go to a pain management clinic to get her off them. She's one of the abusers who wants the fentanyl. She even grew her own poppies. Drugs and alcohol killed my sister and left a body that walks and talks and will steal your last penny without a second thought. I haven't seen or talked to her in years and, while sad, it's much better for my mental health.
I completely understand what you are talking about. Some people will judge family members of addicts, but unless they have been there, they don't understand. And if they have been there, they know . . . everyone had a time with an addict that they love where they say, "I have had enough. Unless you change, I am through with you breaking my heart every day".
 

douglasmhines

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Sorry to hear about your bro.

Bill
thank you. It was hard, but I learned to accept it. I realize that sounds brutal, but he chose to love drugs and the addiction they come with, and that road has only one endpoint.
 
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