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Woman's Day October 2015 Edition "Money Moves That Don't Pay Off."

pedro47

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"These "investments" are never a good deal, say columnists Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze.
Please read page 146. "DON'T invest in a time-share." There are a total of six (6) MONEY MOVES That Don't Pay Off...Woman's Day Magazine October 2015 Edition.
Please read the magazine article found on page 146.
 
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TUGBrian

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While dave gives great advice on many financial matters, in recent months his advice for callers asking him for help with their timeshares has been utterly awful.

mostly just suggestions to upfront fee companies and "charities"....hes clearly done no research on the resale market, and its a shame he doles out this advice to unsuspecting owners who rely on him to be an expert.
 

WinniWoman

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I don't get Woman's Day Magazine. Can you tell us what it says?
 

missyrcrews

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He advises not to buy

I don't get Woman's Day Magazine. Can you tell us what it says?

He says that timeshares are not a good investment. He's viewing an "investment" as something that you can sell at a profit. Clearly, timeshares don't fit that bill. I actually thought of you when I read the article...he pooh poohs going to the same place at the same time. But you and I (and probably a bunch of others on here!) actually LOVE to do just that. My timeshare feels like my vacation home. And "investment" for me is that I take at least 4 weeks of vacation every year, and more often...we manage to squeak out 6. We stay in nice places, cook our own meals, enjoy pleasant amenities, and visit with others who are doing the same thing. That's an "investment" to me, even though I'll probably not make a cent on my timeshares.
 

WinniWoman

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He says that timeshares are not a good investment. He's viewing an "investment" as something that you can sell at a profit. Clearly, timeshares don't fit that bill. I actually thought of you when I read the article...he pooh poohs going to the same place at the same time. But you and I (and probably a bunch of others on here!) actually LOVE to do just that. My timeshare feels like my vacation home. And "investment" for me is that I take at least 4 weeks of vacation every year, and more often...we manage to squeak out 6. We stay in nice places, cook our own meals, enjoy pleasant amenities, and visit with others who are doing the same thing. That's an "investment" to me, even though I'll probably not make a cent on my timeshares.

LOL! Right! Thanks, missyrcrews. Yes- we think of our timeshares the same way. Heck- I live to go to my timeshares! And the extra benefit of these "second homes" is we can exchange them to go somewhere else if we want to (though I never do). Hey- what does Dave Ramsey know?! Ha! Ha! ;)
 

JSparling

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Ramsey's success and knowledge is fairly indisputable. And expecting to sell my timeshares for what I paid for them, or more, down the road (an "investment") isn't going to happen; I get that. However, I'd be curious to know his thoughts on what it costs a non-timeshare owner to go to Hawaii for a week vs. someone who owns there. If you're going to travel, and travel often, then owning a timeshare is the way to go. The longer you own a timeshare the better the "investment" (or better called "heavily discounted travel costs") is because you dilute your initial purchase price and get to a point where you're just paying the maintenance fees.

Since my family is going to travel it makes sense for us to pay for a timeshare and get those deed discounts each time we schedule a vacation.
 

VegasBella

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he pooh poohs going to the same place at the same time. But you and I (and probably a bunch of others on here!) actually LOVE to do just that. My timeshare feels like my vacation home.

Heck yeah, I love that! My initial interest in timeshares was because my family sold the family vacation home and I felt a sense of loss because I realized my son wouldn't have anything similar to what I had growing up, going on some regular family vacations year after year. We bought a fixed unit, fixed week ownership at Carlsbad Inn (and by the way, we were savvy about how we bought it so we could sell it tomorrow and make a profit). As a family we love those vacations.

I have a friend who owns an inherited timeshare that he has extremely fond memories of visiting. He is happy to go there every year and do the same tradition with his son. Unfortunately, his wife isn't on board and she wants to go somewhere else, although she's OK going to the same place every year, she just wants it to be some place like Mexico.

Lots of people like going to the same place year after year. It doesn't mean we can't go other places too, it just means we like that place and want to spend time there every year. I think for a lot of families it works out in a way that's similar to a vacation home, without the initial expense or a lot of the problems that come with a vacation home.

Financially it's not a great investment. But what vacation is?
Instead, a resale timeshare that was bought at or below market value that the owner can afford to maintain and that is used regularly is a great way to spend less on vacations and is an investment in happiness, relaxation, family memories, etc.
 

VegasBella

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If you're going to travel, and travel often, then owning a timeshare is the way to go. The longer you own a timeshare the better the "investment" (or better called "heavily discounted travel costs") is because you dilute your initial purchase price and get to a point where you're just paying the maintenance fees.

Since we bought resale, we're already at the point on our other two ownerships where it's just MF. (Don't get me wrong, we don't have any debt on our TS). We like using them but we're trading one we should have used this coming Summer so we can go to Disney World and Maui. Our MF for that one we traded is under $700. Add RCI exchange fees and the result is that our total costs for two weeks of quality resort stays is costing us about $1100, which is what we paid in cash to stay in a much lower quality motel for only one week in Carlsbad before we bought a timeshare (and why we investigated nearby timeshares - we now pay about that in MF plus taxes for our Carlsbad unit, but we stay in a MUCH nicer resort that feels more like "home").

But that's also like me saying I can get my flights for these two weeks paid for by credit card miles so they're virtually free. Doing that requires strategic planning as well as high level of self-control and a high income. Ramsey's advice is for average people. His advice is not for highly educated people who have excellent credit and always pay all their bills on time in full. His advice to stay away from timeshares is great advice for most people.
 
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JSparling

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he pooh poohs going to the same place at the same time.

I own with HGVC and SVO. Neither require me to go to the "same place at the same time". I know some timeshares do require that, but many don't. When you add in RCI and II to the HGVC and SVO options you literally have thousands of places to choose from and can go any of the 52 weeks. He's not informed and, therefore, shouldn't be offering "advice" on this topic.
 

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for the average consumer who attends a TS presentation, buys a week for $20K+, didn't totally understand the ongoing annual fees, and then doesn't understand how to use RCI/II, I think we can all say universally that TS are a bad idea.
For those here at TUG, buying resale, working the RCI/II system, TS can be an excellent "investment." I view mine as a decreasing asset--just like a luxury car (which I don't have), and plan to just give away at the end. Because I only bought prime summer weeks, it's easy to give them away after 7-10 years of use/trading. But, there are scores of winter beach week owners who were suckered into believing they could trade that for a prime summer week--and now they are stuck paying $1K a year for something they can't get rid of.
However, Dave would probably also not advise luxury vacations to go into the budget either. We really didn't "need" to go to Bermuda right before school started, and it did blow an extra $2K for food and airfare--but who can resist a week in Aug. in Bermuda for out of picket annual and trade fees of $800 for the week? It was an awesome trip! I'd rather have that and drive my 10 yr old car.
 

WinniWoman

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I own with HGVC and SVO. Neither require me to go to the "same place at the same time". I know some timeshares do require that, but many don't. When you add in RCI and II to the HGVC and SVO options you literally have thousands of places to choose from and can go any of the 52 weeks. He's not informed and, therefore, shouldn't be offering "advice" on this topic.

I never heard of a timeshare REQUIRING you to go to the same place at the same time. Fixed weeks are just a kind of guarantee that you will have use of a unit or even a particular unit every year for the same week. BUT- if you want to exchange it you certainly can to go somewhere else or to go back into the same resort at another time.

That said, a lot of fixed week owners own fixed weeks because they want to make sure they can go to their home resort every year at the same time and the same unit (in some cases).
 

WinniWoman

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Heck yeah, I love that! My initial interest in timeshares was because my family sold the family vacation home and I felt a sense of loss because I realized my son wouldn't have anything similar to what I had growing up, going on some regular family vacations year after year. We bought a fixed unit, fixed week ownership at Carlsbad Inn (and by the way, we were savvy about how we bought it so we could sell it tomorrow and make a profit). As a family we love those vacations.

I have a friend who owns an inherited timeshare that he has extremely fond memories of visiting. He is happy to go there every year and do the same tradition with his son. Unfortunately, his wife isn't on board and she wants to go somewhere else, although she's OK going to the same place every year, she just wants it to be some place like Mexico.

Lots of people like going to the same place year after year. It doesn't mean we can't go other places too, it just means we like that place and want to spend time there every year. I think for a lot of families it works out in a way that's similar to a vacation home, without the initial expense or a lot of the problems that come with a vacation home.

Financially it's not a great investment. But what vacation is?
Instead, a resale timeshare that was bought at or below market value that the owner can afford to maintain and that is used regularly is a great way to spend less on vacations and is an investment in happiness, relaxation, family memories, etc.

Our 27 year old son not only has the memories of our timeshare experiences each year (and still takes a visit when we are at our home resort), he also has the memories of staying every summer with his grandparents at their timeshare on the water in Connecticut when he was a kid. He has asked several times (including just this past wknd.) if we can someday trade to go to it as he feels very sentimental about it.
 

JSparling

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Our 27 year old son not only has the memories of our timeshare experiences each year (and still takes a visit when we are at our home resort), he also has the memories of staying every summer with his grandparents at their timeshare on the water in Connecticut when he was a kid. He has asked several times (including just this past wknd.) if we can someday trade to go to it as he feels very sentimental about it.

Well said and great story! If you manage it right (go to the same place with regular frequency) having a TS can really be like having that family vacation home on a lake somewhere special that you visit each summer. And it costs a lot less!
 

JSparling

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I view mine as a decreasing asset--just like a luxury car (which I don't have), and plan to just give away at the end.

Well said, Elaine! This is what I said earlier today in the HGVC forum:

"You could look a car this way (as being an investment). We all agree that a typical car does nothing but lose value. And when it's got 150,000 miles on it and is 10 years old it really has little value (especially when compared to the original purchase price). But if I can get 150,000 out of a $20,000 car is that something worth "investing" in?"

You must be my long lost TS twin! I also agree with what you said about acquiring "good" weeks. They'll be easy to unload eventually and even if you end up giving them away you've definitely gotten great use out of them and your "investment" paid off.
 

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We own three fixed weeks and Wyndham points. Not one of those fixed weeks cost me over 100 dollars...one was transferred to me by a relative and two were eBay auctions that were listed with free closing and transfer...winning bids were low! All three weeks have relatively low MF. And one is a lock off that I routinely get two weeks out of or that I rent one side of and trade the other. I have never ever set foot in the resort....lol.

Were these a good investment for me? Well, when I was traveling with three kids and they got older and needed separate beds, I needed two hotel rooms. Where on earth would I get two rooms for $600 a week and still feel safe and comfortable? Heck, the MF for that lock off is less than 800 bucks? Where am I getting two weeks of hotel for that amount? So, while I agree that buying from a developer might never really pay you back. I feel that we have more than made a good investment.

My kids are grown now, they have been to so many nice places and stayed in lovely accommodations. My older son is thinking about picking up a week or two on eBay, or perhaps here if I see something here for him, so that he and his GF can stay in nicer places. My kids are spoiled...they are not at all fond of hotels!
 

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For the everyday person not on TUG, buying a timeshare is not a good deal! These are the people with regrets that they spent tens of thousands to buy in and then thousands in MFs but yet don't have a clue how to use the TS and can't unload it.

Tuggers are the exception to the rule. We know how to play the TS game, and it pays off for us.

Maybe I should email Dave and tell him that I've never been to the resort I own at lol...so much for staying at the same place year after year. That TS that I bought off of Ebay for a song years ago has afforded us so many amazing 2 and 3 bedroom Marriott trades off of II:whoopie:
 

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we also had a "poor man's" lake house. It was a 2bd cabin on the lake at a camping resort 1 hr from our house. My kids went there every year from ages 2-12. Each of them caught their first fish there. We called it the "camp-house," which worked well for our yearly rustic trip, but with a bed, AC, and bathroom! When the kids hit teenage years, they became bored and we found ourselves only spending 3 nights there. We didn't need another trader, so the next year, I divested it for free. But, those 10 years were priceless memories for our family. (we laso have a "poor man's beachhouse--fixed 3BR week at HHI that family from other states joins us EOY). But, again, we tuggers alrady know that we are in the extreme minority.
 

missyrcrews

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Yep...we're spoiled!

I've told the story on here before of my husband taking Audrey to the YMCA Regional Competition in Amherst last spring. They stayed at a Days Inn. He still shudders when it comes up!

We stay in a 2 BR suite at Comfort suites or Staybridge Suites when we travel to Missouri in the summer. (I have 4 kids, so 6 of us total.) If I'm LUCKY, that's $175 a night, sometimes well over $200. A NIGHT. Makes my $650-$750 maintenance fees look like a bargain! (I also bought my timeshares very cheaply...actually won one at a giveaway at the resort. Can't beat that!)

I'll drive my old vehicle, shop at Goodwill for my clothes, and use coupons religiously if it means we get those weeks of vacation!
 
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