WKORVN Sales Presentation

[larryallen]

Went through the "90 minute" presentation today. They want $63k for an OV 2 bedroom so was pretty easy for me to say no.

I told them I thought I could buy a unit on Ebay or Redweek for $15k. We were told they exercise ROFR at $40k or more. I told my wife I doubted that was true.

I also told him a friend of mine says her MF's at this property went from $900 5 years ago to go $2,500 today. He told me that was false. He says it was maybe $1,600 or $1,800 5 years ago and it's never been $900. Just curious what the Tug experts say about MF's over the last 5 or 6 years.

Anyway I like the property but can't see buying at $63k.

 

[Westin5Star]

Good decision Larry. I actually own at WKORV not the North section. I will say that when I bought about 5 years ago or so my MFs were several hundred less per year. I believe that they are now pushing close to $3k per year. I own a Ocean Front Deluxe unit so there is a bit more square footage which makes our MF a little higher. I will say that I don't mind the $3k per year but is probably because we own the OFD unit. I wouldn't be nearly as happy paying almost $3k per year for an island view.

 

[spencersmama]

We've owned at the north side for about that length of time and our MF's have never been $900. I just looked at Quicken and they were about $1800 our first year, 2007, although that may not have covered the whole year's worth of MF's since it was our first year of ownership. I can't remember all the details. The MF's did go up, but then have gone down in the last year or two by a couple hundred dollars. I think they went up when they were involved in the lawsuit/negotiation with Maui about how to tax time shares.

 

[DavidnRobin]

With OFD we paying for more sqft, and paying more per sqft - this is in the CCRs and posted a while a go for all villa types.
...but if you count window sqft - it is hard to beat

I have the previous MFs back to 2004 - I can post if I can find

 

[DeniseM]

We bought on the south side pre-construction in about 2002, and I believe the MF was $1,100 for a 2 bdm. - it's twice that now.

But you can't expect a sales person to share negative info. in a sales presentation.

 

[YYJMSP]

I also told him a friend of mine says her MF's at this property went from $900 5 years ago to go $2,500 today. He told me that was false. He says it was maybe $1,600 or $1,800 5 years ago and it's never been $900. Just curious what the Tug experts say about MF's over the last 5 or 6 years.

The $900 number sounds like an EOY ownership.

In round numbers, WKORVN EOY was $800 back in 2008, and is now over $1200 for 2012.

 

[LUV2TRVL2HI]

WKOR Maintenance Fee

We purchased WKOR pre-construction in 2001, but the first maintenance fee receipt I can find shows $1225 for a 2-bedroom oceanview in January 2004.

 

[larryallen]

Thanks everybody for the input. Also, at what number do you think Westin really exercises ROFR? $15k? $20k? $40k seems very high. The sales person actually said at $40k or $50k but I doubt that.

 

[Negma]

We have 2-2br eoy. one year island,the other oceanview
total MFs for each year

2008 1711
2009 1946
2010 2563
2011 2398
2012 2428

Hope that helps

 

[vacationtime1]

Thanks everybody for the input. Also, at what number do you think Westin really exercises ROFR? $15k? $20k? $40k seems very high. The sales person actually said at $40k or $50k but I doubt that.

Starwood ROFR'd us on a WKORV-OV annual unit we sold last June for $18,100. That is the highest number I have seen on an OV unit.

I have seen posts suggesting that WKORVN-OF units are being ROFR'd up to about $23,000-24,000, but that data is also at least a couple of months old.

The best sources would be Syed Sarmad (Advantage Vacations) and Fred Messrini (Timeshare Resale Gallery), both of whom are brokers active in this market and contributors to this board.

 

[larryallen]

One other question do you think they do any kind of background check or anything before the sales presentation? I do not mean an actual credit check but do they do a quick Google search to see what you do for a living or anything like that? I am thinking yes but curious if any insiders have any knowledge on this?

 

[Ken555]

One other question do you think they do any kind of background check or anything before the sales presentation? I do not mean an actual credit check but do they do a quick Google search to see what you do for a living or anything like that? I am thinking yes but curious if any insiders have any knowledge on this?

You credit them with more than they deserve. I've never had the sales staff know more than what was on my ownership sheet (and even that is usually full of errors).

 

[jarta]

"One other question do you think they do any kind of background check or anything before the sales presentation? I do not mean an actual credit check but do they do a quick Google search to see what you do for a living or anything like that?"

Before the sales presentation, nothing. If you buy, after the documents are executed, the minimum they must do to demonstrate the loan can be securitized (packaged and sold off). ... eom

 

[DavidnRobin]

WKORV OFD MFs (w/o SVN)

year, Amt, %, % since 2005
2005 $1,623.77
2006 $1,813.16 11.7 11.7
2007 $1,954.27 7.8 20.4
2008 $2,203.79 12.8 35.7
2009 $2,459.73 11.6 51.5
2010 $3,076.69 25.1 89.5
2011 $2,825.97 -8.1 74.0
2012 $2,825.51 0.0 74.0

 

[Richierich2]

Rofr

I have been lurking on the board since I got back from WKorvn in Sept.. I almost jumped on a few deals but been held back by indiscision.

I think I want a wkorvn OF which is going to run 23-25k. I know it sometimes is not true OF but will be using the large side as a rental to cover MF. Then use the small side on II to trade in to one bedrooms. I am willing to pay more upfront than on a OV cuz I know I can rent it for more and better trader.

I know there are cheaper ways to go to Maui but I want to go when it fits my schedule and I know living in Portland that it is a place I want to visit every few years.

I see one WKORV OF on red week right now for 31,500 with MF of 2400, I am willing to pay more for the view but do not want a deluxe unit with higher MF.

I am hopeful that rofr do no go up in the next couple of months as I am seeing what I owe in taxes and moving my business and want the timeshare to be my reward.

I am also trying to plan a vaca to kierland in May in case we fall in love like I did in Maui. if I end up going crazy like you guys then that would be a future purchase to use for points.

 

[mlpmd56]

Does anyone have any information as to the price point for ROFR? I am particularly interested in 1 Bedroom 1 Bath Ocean View at WKORV South.
Thanks!
Marcy

 

[DavidnRobin]

Does anyone have any information as to the price point for ROFR? I am particularly interested in 1 Bedroom 1 Bath Ocean View at WKORV South.
Thanks!
Marcy

I do not know - there are so few (relatively) that there may not be ROFR info.

However, make sure you compare the MF difference between the 2Bd LO and 1Bd - notice that the difference is not that much - meaning you get an extra 67.1K SOs (studio) for just a little more in MFs (and a lot more supply). You should strongly consider this in your purchase - especially now that you can bank SOs.

oh yeah... IMO

 

[DavidnRobin]

I think I want a wkorvn OF which is going to run 23-25k. I know it sometimes is not true OF but will be using the large side as a rental to cover MF. Then use the small side on II to trade in to one bedrooms. I am willing to pay more upfront than on a OV cuz I know I can rent it for more and better trader.

I know there are cheaper ways to go to Maui but I want to go when it fits my schedule and I know living in Portland that it is a place I want to visit every few years.

I see one WKORV OF on red week right now for 31,500 with MF of 2400, I am willing to pay more for the view but do not want a deluxe unit with higher MF.

A few things (IMO) - I think the value for WKORV OF center is a better - as both sides are true OF (unlike may of the WKORVN OFs) and the studio has a lanai - and the MFs are the same as the other 2Bd LO premium (non-deluxe) villas which do not have a lanai.

What I do not follow... you plan to rent the 1Bd side, and use the studio for II - then why buy WKORV/N at all? Why not save money and buy something like WKV (SVN Mandatory - low MFs - where SOs can be banked, or used to SVN exchage into HI) or SDO (Voluntary - low MFs - great II value for exchanges).

just saying... and IMO

 

[mrzman]

Thanks everybody for the input. Also, at what number do you think Westin really exercises ROFR? $15k? $20k? $40k seems very high. The sales person actually said at $40k or $50k but I doubt that.

Last fall, they did not exercise my 2 br OV at $20k.

-Tim

 

[Richierich2]

A few things (IMO) - I think the value for WKORV OF center is a better - as both sides are true OF (unlike may of the WKORVN OFs) and the studio has a lanai - and the MFs are the same as the other 2Bd LO premium (non-deluxe) villas which do not have a lanai.

What I do not follow... you plan to rent the 1Bd side, and use the studio for II - then why buy WKORV/N at all? Why not save money and buy something like WKV (SVN Mandatory - low MFs - where SOs can be banked, or used to SVN exchage into HI) or SDO (Voluntary - low MFs - great II value for exchanges).

just saying... and IMO

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this, doing personal property taxes, business taxes and personal taxes is taking a toll on the time I get to look for timeshares.

Anyways, i MISPOKE. When my family is not using the large side then........

I think if just me and my wife went then we would use the studio. I would say that being in Oregon that kanapali is the resort based on my family and would go there ever2-3 years forever. since my kids are starting school, I will eventually want spring break and summer available to me. And I don't mind paying more for ocean front since it should rent for more and can be a good trader on red week, tug etc.

The wkorv o/f usually sells for about $11,000 more than the wkorvn o/f. I do not know if I could recoup that in rentals, exchange value or personal enjoyment. I believe o/f will hold value better than island, and hold its own percentage wise with view. I would not buy wkorv Island or view as the studio has no balcony. I would also not buy deluxe because of extra MF on sq ft.

I think when I get a little closer to buying I will do a separate post about wkorv and n o/f values.

I really do not like the idea of Starwood reading post when I am talking about prices to get by Rofr but I am probably just paronoid.

 

[Scott&Laura]

As I recall at WKORV, the Starwood as the developer subsidized the maintenance fees for a few years as an enticement to purchase.

They wanted to use as much O.P.M. as they could get for the development.

Scott & Laura

 

[YYJMSP]

As I recall at WKORV, the Starwood as the developer subsidized the maintenance fees for a few years as an enticement to purchase.

I don't recall that happening with our purchases in 2005 (WKORV and WKORVN).