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Withdraw Sunset Harbor from HRC Management

dioxide45

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Can you provide some evidence that back up your statement on the first 10 years? I'd be interested in looking into this. Were did this occur?
Thank you,
Tenga
You can look to resorts that Marriott dropped. Aspen and Cedar at Streamside in Vail and perhaps even Spicebush and Swallowtail in Hilton Head Island. Villas at Cave Creek also used to be part of the Starwood (now Vistana) system.

The reason I mention 10 years, is generally this is how long a unit will still look to be in fairly decent condition before lack of maintenance and full refurbishment is required. Very few independants will follow a 5/10 year refurbishment cycle like most of the brands do and it starts to show.
 

dioxide45

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There are several in both locals but the two that came to mind is Grand Crown Resort in Branson and the Star Island Resort and Club in Orlando.

" Its not the sign on the door that makes it high quality its what the resort has to offer to the traveler ". Point being that independents resorts can still provide high quality with out some big name brand hanging on its side.

Best,
Tenga
Star Island certainly isn't at a level of Marriott or Hyatt. Many people mention that even the Wyndham units there are better quality than the non Wyndham.
 

dayooper

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Hilton is a brand name that has fairly decent quality. The resorts could enter an agreement with HGVC like the SW Florida affiliates or Bay Club where club membership is voluntary. If an owner wants to enroll in the club, they pay an activation fee and have the ability to trade in HGVC if they wanted to or they just keep their weeks. The SW Florida affiliates have both dedicated weeks and flex weeks in their inventory.

Not that this would ever happen, but a guy living in the cold of Michigan dreaming of Key West can dream, can't he?
 

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Star Island certainly isn't at a level of Marriott or Hyatt. Many people mention that even the Wyndham units there are better quality than the non Wyndham.
Stayed there this past June for 7 nights in a 1bedrm, for a independent resort it has nice amenities and the building's including the grounds were in great shape! Sorry too hear it doesn't make your association of a Marriott or a Hyatt. I'm pretty sure its not marketing its self as one either.

The point being its not some rundown resort due to lack of maintenance or not being taken care of by its owners thats all. Independents can and do make it. Some will fail others will succeed.

Best,
Tenga
 

AJCts411

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Would maintenance be kept at the same level as HYATT at Sunset? I believe that would be depending on the owners and how expenditures are presented to the owners by the board. Hyatt has a certain standard to which Sunset must meet. No doubt, but, the ultimate beneficiary of those expenditures is the HYATT Brand not necessarily the owners.

A couple things come to mind on this subject. I don't think one can make a blanket statement that the quality will decline under new management. And over spending does not add value. What is really really subjective, what makes and resort a 5 star (or any rating) a 5 star? To me the furnishings and decor in the units is good. But I could not say luxurious like I would expect at a 5 star hotels I've stayed at. Sunset does not have a bar , restaurant or lounge as many 5 star locations do have. Adding this would cost plenty. Not that this is a negative for Sunset as all of this is just a block away.
One of the issues mentioned, HYATT pushing to bring forward maintenance project by years, putting the greater burden of those costs on owners and not the future points system being hyped. That example is why changing management teams is gaining traction, and because that is only one example of how the corporation is milking the owners at the owners expense, I'd be a yes.
 

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The vast majority of Beach House owners are absentees. They only want the points for use elsewhere so it definitely would not be in their interests to have a stand-alone property. Many of those owners have never stayed at the Beach House but use the points to stay at HSH.
We own there, and have stayed there three of the past five years, so call it 60% owner occupancy on our part. Of the other owners we have met on site, it seems there is a mix of “we have never gone anywhere else” to “ we are only here every other year”. Of course, the sample we are talking to are on site, so that does not give an accurate cross section of all owners... only that Beach House owners do actually use the property they own. As an aside, the other location we used our points at was Aspen. Now that is gone, maybe we will be more frequent visitors to the Beach House.

Thanks Kal, ya made my point :)

Sunset goes BH is next and with 1 out of the 3 in Key West gone. What is left will make the bookings all the harder! With 2 out of 3 gone in Key West good luck with that sales center being the major hub of sales for Hyatt/Marriott. Could that be the reason Stephen P Weisz spent so much for Welk??? Is this now the sale focus at KW sales center focus on Welk not KW?? It sure feels to me like taking some of the heat off the sales people trying to tout come to KW enjoy your new TS here!

Over the years every Beach House owner I've met has talked about the pride they have in being there own "Boss" and the strength of "there" ownership over Hyatt! It's a Beach House owner first talking point when you ask them about being a BH owner, and I've admired that for many years.

And to make my case the owners that run the board and use Beach exclusively, they have through the years made the decisions v.s. the absentee's.. The'll get the 60% needed to advance the board decisions... I have no doubt that if the BH BOD feels its in there interest to leave they will get the votes.. Like I mentioned they rule with a iron fist and over the years Hyatt walks on pin's and needles regarding anything associated with the Beach House. Of all the clubs its their "club bylaws /agreements" in writing that allow them the easiest break from Hyatt/Marriott.

What say you all? Any Beach owner's on here feel free to jump in. "If Sunset leaves the Hyatt family would you vote to leave or stay"?
Best,
Tenga
I think you have been talking with owners who are much more involved than most of the owners. While I have heard that the owners at HBH are more involved in the operation of the property, I have seen more involvement from the board at Highlands Inn (our other Hyatt).

One big problem with HBH leaving the Hyatt system is Hyatt has many more owned units in the HPP than are owned at Sunset. This gives Hyatt a big advantage in forcing the property to remain in the Hyatt system if it comes to a vote.

As for whether we would vote to stay or go, I think that would depend on what the change would be to. I’m not ready to jump out of the frying pan into the fire. For example, if the vote were to go with Sunset over to HGVC, I would probably go for it. If the vote were to shift over to MVC, I would actively fight it.
 

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My question centered around inventory continuing to be bought by HPP. Since they already have some inventory (not sure of the numbers) they might be compelled to keep buying until they can get a controlling interest back. That motivation for them would likely be tied to the current percentage of ownership they already have.
They would loose ROFR, so would have to actively participate in the resale market and compete against other interested parties. I would think it is possible, not probable. On the other hand, as you state, the motivation is likely tied to their current ownership percentage. Maybe they would actively try to do this with Beach House and not with Sunset as they have a larger existing ownership interest in HBH vs HSH.
 

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Hilton is a brand name that has fairly decent quality. The resorts could enter an agreement with HGVC like the SW Florida affiliates or Bay Club where club membership is voluntary. If an owner wants to enroll in the club, they pay an activation fee and have the ability to trade in HGVC if they wanted to or they just keep their weeks. The SW Florida affiliates have both dedicated weeks and flex weeks in their inventory.

Not that this would ever happen, but a guy living in the cold of Michigan dreaming of Key West can dream, can't he?
I would be happy with this outcome.
 

alexadeparis

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There are several in both locals but the two that came to mind is Grand Crown Resort in Branson and the Star Island Resort and Club in Orlando.

" Its not the sign on the door that makes it high quality its what the resort has to offer to the traveler ". Point being that independents resorts can still provide high quality with out some big name brand hanging on its side.

Best,
Tenga
NONE of those locations you mention are even remotely high quality. A step above Super 8.
 

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NONE of those locations you mention are even remotely high quality. A step above Super 8.
So says You! But Shhhhh...... don't tell the parent company of MVC because II has them designated as a Premium Destination Clubs "each offering excelling value even possible the same designated as what you as an owner purchased"?????

Not sure I've seen any Super 8 with such a hight level of designated? Sorry I've never been inside a super 8 so I could not compare it.

Best,
Tenga
 

alexadeparis

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So says You! But Shhhhh...... don't tell the parent company of MVC because II has them designated as a Premium Destination Clubs "each offering excelling value even possible the same designated as what you as an owner purchased"?????

Not sure I've seen any Super 8 with such a hight level of designated? Sorry I've never been inside a super 8 so I could not compare it.

Best,
Tenga
Unless you own at one or both of these places (which I highly suspect you must) I don’t understand why you think these resorts are such high quality and are defending them so strongly. II ratings have a lot of variation within tiers. If you have been involved with timeshares longer than a year or two, you quickly find out what is acceptable to you and what isn’t. I personally only stay at II Elite resorts for the most part. My husband complains about anything less. I only take premier if it’s the ONLY thing available. I don’t even consider anything else. Elites are an A, premier a B and Select a C. If it has no rating to me that is an F. If a Marriott Hyatt or Westin owner (of which I do own all three) traded into your 2 “favorite“ resorts, it would be a trade DOWN. That is absolutely indisputable. Are you sure this is the Hill you want to die on? And there is really no need for insulting comments.

And to keep this on topic, I for one would be sad to see HSH leave the Hyatt system. We have stayed in all The KW properties and the actual location is my favorite of the three, although it is/was the shabbiest of the 3.
 

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Unless you own at one or both of these places (which I highly suspect you must) I don’t understand why you think these resorts are such high quality and are defending them so strongly. II ratings have a lot of variation within tiers. If you have been involved with timeshares longer than a year or two, you quickly find out what is acceptable to you and what isn’t. I personally only stay at II Elite resorts for the most part. My husband complains about anything less. I only take premier if it’s the ONLY thing available. I don’t even consider anything else. Elites are an A, premier a B and Select a C. If it has no rating to me that is an F. If a Marriott Hyatt or Westin owner (of which I do own all three) traded into your 2 “favorite“ resorts, it would be a trade DOWN. That is absolutely indisputable. Are you sure this is the Hill you want to die on? And there is really no need for insulting comments.

And to keep this on topic, I for one would be sad to see HSH leave the Hyatt system. We have stayed in all The KW properties and the actual location is my favorite of the three, although it is/was the shabbiest of the 3.
I doubt any HSH owner would disagree with you. But, they (we) always come back with LOCATION. It would be wonderful to swap Windward Pointe into the HSH property. Windward Pointe is nice but at lands end.
 

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So Grand Aspen is leaving Hyatt? Sunset Harbor is considering leaving, Miami at the Blue left years ago as did Escala Lodge in Park City. NYC never opened. What does this say about the Hyatt Residence club or Hyatt management in general? Maybe this is why Marriott is openly talking about merging their internal trading with Vistana (i.e. Westin) but no talk of merging systems with Hyatt Residence Club.
 

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So Grand Aspen is leaving Hyatt? Sunset Harbor is considering leaving, Miami at the Blue left years ago as did Escala Lodge in Park City. NYC never opened. What does this say about the Hyatt Residence club or Hyatt management in general? Maybe this is why Marriott is openly talking about merging their internal trading with Vistana (i.e. Westin) but no talk of merging systems with Hyatt Residence Club.
The future Miami and Park City locations never became a party to HRC. They were going to be, and things changed. That was well before II purchased Hyatt, so as much as I dislike MVC, we cannot blame them for it.

Hyatt management pre II / MVC was pretty good all things considered.

There is an existing contract in place with Hyatt Hotels that probably either prevents the system merger, or if MVC strips the properties of the Hyatt name, it will cost MVC a rather large pile of cash. My guess is MVC wanted II for a different reason, and Hyatt was along for the ride. Now, MVC is attempting to put lipstick on a pig (pardon the term) by purchasing and combining with Welk with the intent of selling as fast as they can figure out who can pay the highest price.
 

escanoe

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I would hope that HGVC would love to cut deals with HSH and HBH if they moved away from Hyatt together (not that any of this is likely). I am sure they would love to have some footprint there and IMHO do an excellent job managing properties without exorbitant fees.

I find it doubtful that the boards would want to align with MVC given that MVC is also owned by the same parent company that owns HRC. Very likely that these two properties would go independant and perhaps find a management company to manage the operations and reservation system. Could be something like VRI, but VRI is again owned by the same parent company that owns HRC. That being Marriott Vacations Worldwide.
 

dioxide45

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Have we ever seen a situation where a resort has changed from one timeshare brand affiliation to another? I know hotels jump around all the time, but things get messy with timeshares. Not sure we would see this happen. Not saying it isn't possible, but not probable.
 

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I would hope that HGVC would love to cut deals with HSH and HBH if they moved away from Hyatt together (not that any of this is likely). I am sure they would love to have some footprint there and IMHO do an excellent job managing properties without exorbitant fees.
As unlikely as it may be, I’m sure HGVC would jump at the chance to get two affiliates in Key West. I would also be happy to see HGVC pick the management contract up.
 

dayooper

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Have we ever seen a situation where a resort has changed from one timeshare brand affiliation to another? I know hotels jump around all the time, but things get messy with timeshares. Not sure we would see this happen. Not saying it isn't possible, but not probable.
I would think the weeks Hyatt owns for their points program would be a difficult hurdle to overcome for an outside program like HGVC.
 

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I would think the weeks Hyatt owns for their points program would be a difficult hurdle to overcome for an outside program like HGVC.
You would likely end up with a dual-affiliation program; perhaps similar to what happened in Northstar.
 

dayooper

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You would likely end up with a dual-affiliation program; perhaps similar to what happened in Northstar.
Don‘t get me wrong, I would LOVE having Sunset Harbor in the HGVC system. I would love it even more if HGVC bought the entire Hyatt system, even if it was some sort of affiliate trading program. The 2 systems complement each other so well. Only 2 duplicate locations (Maui and Breckinridge and those are very desirable places) so they would just add to both systems. It’s not gonna happen, but I can dream, right?

BTW - We almost bought into Hyatt (resale) last summer, but didn’t find a deed at the price we wanted. Bought another HGVC this summer.
 

AJCts411

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You would likely end up with a dual-affiliation program; perhaps similar to what happened in Northstar.
May be wrong, wouldn't the Hyatt points trust be merely owners? They own weeks to back up the points they sell. So I'd assume that those HPP owned units would be available withing that Hyatt points system. And as owners, the trust would just have to pay annual maintenance fees just like owners would. If HPP wanted out they could sell on the open market. Just like any other owner at Sunset.
 

Quinte

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Don't own at HSH but at HBH.

If I was asked, this question at any of my Hyatts with deeded week (HBH & HWOR) I would vote NO. The reason is
  • Multiple trading systems in one.
    • HRC,
    • II, and
    • World of Hyatt.
COVID made clear that options are needed. If we had a deeded week in an independent resort it would likely have been completely lost to us, since we have not been able to travel into the US for a year and a half. Although you could own independent resorts and go through II or RCI, from what I understand the restrictions made it impractical for many Canadians. Family members who own in the Orlando area had losses because they could not travel. Yes, some folks went to the US exploiting the flying loophole, but that does not work if you still are employed and would have needed to isolate for two weeks when you got back.

The real advantage was to transfer points to HPP and then from HPP to W.O.H. points. We can now used these points well into the future and we can use them to stay at Hyatt hotels in Canada (or anywhere else for that matter). As long as COVID stays tame, we hope to use them in Puerto Rico - for a pre-cruise hotel - in March.
 

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May be wrong, wouldn't the Hyatt points trust be merely owners? They own weeks to back up the points they sell. So I'd assume that those HPP owned units would be available withing that Hyatt points system. And as owners, the trust would just have to pay annual maintenance fees just like owners would. If HPP wanted out they could sell on the open market. Just like any other owner at Sunset.
The problem with Hyatt owning units in HPP is Hyatt can use the deeds to vote what they want. For example, for the property to NOT leave Hyatt management. This is more of a problem for Beach House than Sunset as Hyatt owns many more unit weeks at HBH than HSH. Conversely, IF Hyatt wanted to cause more trouble and bring the property back under Hyatt management down the road, they could buy back units until they own enough to control the vote (I’m assuming it’s 51%, but could be something else). Again, this would be easier for them to do at HBH because of their current ownership percentage.
 

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May be wrong, wouldn't the Hyatt points trust be merely owners? They own weeks to back up the points they sell. So I'd assume that those HPP owned units would be available withing that Hyatt points system. And as owners, the trust would just have to pay annual maintenance fees just like owners would. If HPP wanted out they could sell on the open market. Just like any other owner at Sunset.
when Welk resorts bough Hyatt Northstar, there were some Hyatt owners that already owned units. They did not lose their Hyatt affiliation due to the purchase. Thus some units in Hyatt were available via Hyatt and the bulk were part of the Welk system. My assumption would be that the trust units would likely remain accessible to Hyatt owners and the other units would be avsilable to the other system.
 

Sugarcubesea

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Hilton is a brand name that has fairly decent quality. The resorts could enter an agreement with HGVC like the SW Florida affiliates or Bay Club where club membership is voluntary. If an owner wants to enroll in the club, they pay an activation fee and have the ability to trade in HGVC if they wanted to or they just keep their weeks. The SW Florida affiliates have both dedicated weeks and flex weeks in their inventory.

Not that this would ever happen, but a guy living in the cold of Michigan dreaming of Key West can dream, can't he?
@dayooper , I'm in Michigan as well and this past week has solidified my decision even further as to why I'm moving to FL upon retirement. I love my HBH and I love staying in Key West, and I can not wait to get back to Key West next March. I really want to exchange in Texas and CA with Hyatt, so I hope options stay that we can still internally exchange.
 
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