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Withdraw Sunset Harbor from HRC Management

Kal

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Remember Aspen! If you were a Sunset Harbor owner, how would you vote to remove Hyatt from management of the resort? Hyatt cannot take action to prevent it from happening. It would take 60% positive owner vote to make the removal happen. What would be your thoughts if you didn't own at Sunset Harbor?

For me, I would vote YES.
 

AJCts411

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As an owner I would be in favor of changing the Hyatt management at HSH. We bought at HSH to use very year, not to trade points. (For those who do not know, it is reported in this forum that the occupancy level at HSH is very high, very difficult to reserve via points. mostly owned weeks)
My negatives:
1) Owning a deeded lockout, club rules do not allow splitting your week into two reservation separate reservations. Per the club rules the owner has to reserve one side and deposit the other into the pool, and hope that you can get the week which you deposited back.
2) The management fees/HRC are high in my opinion. The front line people at HSH do a good job, no complaints. But the "Hyatt" hype is expensive. By this I mean who is actually paying for the salaries and printed marketing materials for those who push the brand...updates, benefits of HRC.
3) No option to opt out of Interval International...we don't use it.
4) Week ownership week transfer fees are excessive last experience was $650.00...for what? This is not for recording the deed at the county, this is to change the name in their system. I call it punitive.
6) If one purchases a week resale, you are penalized, devalued within HRC and the brand. Minor issue to me.
5) My perception of Hyatt AKA Marriott is that they are plotting, maneuvering to undermine the deeded week owners in favor of the expensive points systems. One way is ROFR.

So yes, I would be a yes.
 

JanT

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Kal,

We were out of the Hyatt system for several years so I'm not sure what happened with Aspen. Can you elaborate or just point me to somewhere I can get a rundown on what you're talking about? Honestly, I wish MVC would rebrand HSH and fold it into MVC. Those weeks at HSH would be some powerful traders for sure.
 

Kal

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Kal,

We were out of the Hyatt system for several years so I'm not sure what happened with Aspen. Can you elaborate or just point me to somewhere I can get a rundown on what you're talking about? Honestly, I wish MVC would rebrand HSH and fold it into MVC. Those weeks at HSH would be some powerful traders for sure.
A new management company is scheduled to be in place in December. Hyatt Grand Aspen will become an independent and will no longer be affiliated with HRC. With Aspen becoming an independent, HPP and HRC members will no longer have access to the HRC deeded weeks via an internal exchange.
 

Kal

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As an owner I would be in favor of changing the Hyatt management at HSH. We bought at HSH to use very year, not to trade points. (For those who do not know, it is reported in this forum that the occupancy level at HSH is very high, very difficult to reserve via points. mostly owned weeks)...
Not only does HSH have perhaps the highest occupancy level in the HRC, it also has a very high owner occupancy. This tells me those owners will vote YES. The HRC folks who do not own at HSH would not have access to HSH thru points. Unfortunately, they do not have a vote on this issue.
 

echino

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If I owned at HSH, I would vote to remove Hyatt as a management company. But I don't own there, so I hope it doesn't happen.
 

dioxide45

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Kal,

We were out of the Hyatt system for several years so I'm not sure what happened with Aspen. Can you elaborate or just point me to somewhere I can get a rundown on what you're talking about? Honestly, I wish MVC would rebrand HSH and fold it into MVC. Those weeks at HSH would be some powerful traders for sure.
 

RunCat

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with the Hyatt defections, Welk could be the dominant player in the merger. Welk has fewer resorts but may already have more owners. It will be interesting to see what MVC does. With Welk being a 75+% points ownership, there may be more Hyatt defections due to dilution and location competition.
 

Kal

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with the Hyatt defections, Welk could be the dominant player in the merger. Welk has fewer resorts but may already have more owners. It will be interesting to see what MVC does. With Welk being a 75+% points ownership, there may be more Hyatt defections due to dilution and location competition.
The fun is yet to begin for Welk. The question remains, what will it cost to be a member of the Portfolio. Now it's $13K to play the game. Can you imagine how a Welk points owner will feel when they are faced with that issue? Of course they could be limited to trading within their own group of Welk points resorts and no access to the Hyatt HPP resorts without first paying the ransom $$. Likewise, the HPP members would not have access to the Welk points properties.
 

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Kal,

Thank you for the link. I checked that out. Interesting that HSH is considering the same option. We bought 3 resale weeks there this year so that will be interesting if they leave Hyatt. I haven't heard that at all. If they do leave Hyatt then that's going to mean we're not going to be able to trade into any other Hyatt resorts in the HRC??? If that's the case, I'm not sure I'm going to be happy about that.

By the way, this is NOT just an idle question. HSH is investigating the option.
 

RunCat

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The fun is yet to begin for Welk. The question remains, what will it cost to be a member of the Portfolio. Now it's $13K to play the game. Can you imagine how a Welk points owner will feel when they are faced with that issue? Of course they could be limited to trading within their own group of Welk points resorts and no access to the Hyatt HPP resorts without first paying the ransom $$. Likewise, the HPP members would not have access to the Welk points properties.

Completely agree. And honestly I'm not sure how this will work. The many laws, rules, regulations, by-laws make it difficult to see a true merger. Can the unsold Welk inventory be removed from the Trust and deposited into a new system?
 

Kal

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Kal,

Thank you for the link. I checked that out. Interesting that HSH is considering the same option. We bought 3 resale weeks there this year so that will be interesting if they leave Hyatt. I haven't heard that at all. If they do leave Hyatt then that's going to mean we're not going to be able to trade into any other Hyatt resorts in the HRC??? If that's the case, I'm not sure I'm going to be happy about that.
I can see various work arounds for HRC owners to get into HSH managed by another firm. Never say never. Besides you have votes to express your opposition.
 

travelhacker

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I have no desire to stay at sunset harbor, but I’d be sad to see another defection.

I believe the dues are around 1750 per year. $157 per year is devoted to the HRC club and 10% goes to management.

I’m guessing at most you’d save around $200 per year if you left the Hyatt system. After all you’d need to pay another management company and there are probably some things that would be more expensive as a result of not being associated with a group of resorts (like say insurance).

The owners would need to be happy with their deeded week, because otherwise they would need to come up with a system for internal (to the resort) exchanges (it could be simple but something to consider).

If owners ever wanted to trade with other timeshares they would need to pay a membership fee that would be roughly $100 per year.

Does it really seem worth it to leave?

You are gaining at most a couple hundred in lower fees and giving up A LOT of flexibility.

You would also be more beholden to board members driven to cut expenses which could have a negative impact on quality.
 

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My question was really if HSH leaves HRC management, then will HSH owners not be able to trade into OTHER HRC resorts.

I can see various work arounds for HRC owners to get into HSH managed by another firm. Never say never. Besides you have votes to express your opposition.
 

travelhacker

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My question was really if HSH leaves HRC management, then will HSH owners not be able to trade into OTHER HRC resorts.
If HSH leaves HRC they would lose the ability to trade within the HRC system.

I suppose they could join interval or RCI independently.
 

Kal

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I have no desire to stay at sunset harbor, but I’d be sad to see another defection.

I believe the dues are around 1750 per year. $157 per year is devoted to the HRC club and 10% goes to management.

I’m guessing at most you’d save around $200 per year if you left the Hyatt system. After all you’d need to pay another management company and there are probably some things that would be more expensive as a result of not being associated with a group of resorts (like say insurance).

The owners would need to be happy with their deeded week, because otherwise they would need to come up with a system for internal (to the resort) exchanges (it could be simple but something to consider).

If owners ever wanted to trade with other timeshares they would need to pay a membership fee that would be roughly $100 per year.

Does it really seem worth it to leave?

You are gaining at most a couple hundred in lower fees and giving up A LOT of flexibility.

You would also be more beholden to board members driven to cut expenses which could have a negative impact on quality.
Comparable MF's for another Key West resort who has selected a management company is about $1100/year. Take a look at the line items in the HSH MF statement associated directly to Hyatt Management. The gouge becomes clear.
 

dioxide45

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My question was really if HSH leaves HRC management, then will HSH owners not be able to trade into OTHER HRC resorts.
HSH owners would no longer be able to exchange into other Hyatt resorts through an internal trading system. Perhaps if they were somehow able to associate with II, they could trade through II. If HPP owns inventory at HSH, then HPP owners could trade into HSH. I beleive also that HRC owners could trade in if something was available inside the 6 months mark.
 

Kal

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HSH owners would no longer be able to exchange into other Hyatt resorts through an internal trading system. Perhaps if they were somehow able to associate with II, they could trade through II. If HPP owns inventory at HSH, then HPP owners could trade into HSH. I beleive also that HRC owners could trade in if something was available inside the 6 months mark.
The statistics show that the majority of HSH owners only want to stay at HSH and internal HRC exchange is not an issue. If that majority is greater than 60% their vote would control the outcome. The number of units actually "permanently owned" by the HPP portfolio is a small fraction especially when those weeks are generally undesirable. The "6 months mark" would be a very minor option. However, there are still other work-arounds for HRC owners to get into a stand alone HSH. Also, a person could have a single II membership for all HSH units owned. This of course is unlike Hyatt's requirement that you pay for multiple II memberships when you own multiple HRC units.
 

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By the way, this is NOT just an idle question. HSH is investigating the option.

Oh boy.

I never visited the Aspen property, nor have I yet visited the Sunset Harbor property. I would have liked to have done both.

It will be a shame for the club if this happens but maybe something of a wake up call. Hyatt is just so painfully greedy, at some point people get fed up.
 

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Thank you. That's what I thought but wanted to verify. I have to say, as an owner of 3 weeks at HSH I don't think I would support this but it would depend on which management company or other system they might fold into. I like the ability to trade into other Hyatt resorts and if that disappears, it would be an issue for me. Yes, those HSH weeks are valuable in the sense that there's not a lot of trade availability through Interval (in fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen a HSH week come up in II), but I do like to have flexibility to get into other Hyatt resorts via Hyatt internal exchange. For example, I just exchanged into Breckenridge Main Street Station during ski season. If HSH decides to leave the Hyatt system, I might just sell my weeks there. We love Key West but not necessarily to go to every year forever.

HSH owners would no longer be able to exchange into other Hyatt resorts through an internal trading system. Perhaps if they were somehow able to associate with II, they could trade through II. If HPP owns inventory at HSH, then HPP owners could trade into HSH. I beleive also that HRC owners could trade in if something was available inside the 6 months mark.
 

travelhacker

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Comparable MF's for another Key West resort who has selected a management company is about $1100/year. Take a look at the line items in the HSH MF statement associated directly to Hyatt Management. The gouge becomes clear.
I don't know much about comparable properties in Key West to say what is realistic and what isn't.

For the weeks that I own, at most I think there's only a couple of hundred dollars that could be trimmed by switching to a new management company and the benefit that I receive is far, far greater by virtue of being part of the club that is attached to the Hyatt brand.

In the case of the Hyatt Grand Aspen the new management company trimmed dues by 10%.
 

Kal

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...Hyatt is just so painfully greedy, at some point people get fed up.
A typical example of Hyatt's greed is the price and timeframe for Hyatt to transfer ownership in resale. The $650 price is pure greed given the fact it's largely a computer database change. They deposit the $650 immediately, yet wait to make the change after 60 days.
 

travelhacker

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A typical example of Hyatt's greed is the price and timeframe for Hyatt to transfer ownership in resale. The $650 price is pure greed given the fact it's largely a computer database change. They deposit the $650 immediately, yet wait to make the change after 60 days.
That's a great example. It really is ridiculous and hurts resale prices.
 

AJCts411

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I don't know much about comparable properties in Key West to say what is realistic and what isn't.

For the weeks that I own, at most I think there's only a couple of hundred dollars that could be trimmed by switching to a new management company and the benefit that I receive is far, far greater by virtue of being part of the club that is attached to the Hyatt brand.

In the case of the Hyatt Grand Aspen the new management company trimmed dues by 10%.

For sure the issue will have strong opinions on both sides. Traders and stayers.

Maintenance fees are very difficult to compare to other resorts in Key West simply because there are so few in the "old town' area of Key West. The Banyan is only a few blocks away, but mostly one bedrooms, but still their maintenance fees for a two bedroom are far less than HSH. Maybe an owner could post the amount but I think it was in the $1100 range. (Agree that this is not apples to apples comparison).
Even at 10% less, adds up when you own multiple weeks. And not having to pay II fees multiple times, or being able to opt out of these II type systems adds to this amount. And changing management, then I would expect to be able to use my owner week lockout without Hyatt gouging, or using their system to their advantage at the cost of mine.
One thing I am 100 percent convinced on is that Marriott has it's corporate profits front and center, AKA selling points and expanding fees and not mine as an owner.
 
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