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Why such a huge difference in listed price of for-sale timeshares?

Archivist

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Hello,
I am wanting to sell our Wyndham Club Access points. I see a huge difference in listed prices for a comparable timeshare as what we have and want to sell.

For instance, on the websites of the two re-sell brokerages Wyndham recommends, I see an average price of about $15,000. As well as other brokerages on-line - they show anywhere from $6000 to $26,000.
When I look on Ebay or TUG, I see about $500 average price for a comparable timeshare for sale.

That's a HUGE difference.

Thank you for your help.
 

Passepartout

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Well, you're free to list your TS with a broker, but it's unlikely to sell at anywhere close to it's listed price. List it on the TUG Marketplace at a price in line with other similar intervals and it will sell. Your call.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Hello,
I am wanting to sell our Wyndham Club Access points. I see a huge difference in listed prices for a comparable timeshare as what we have and want to sell.

For instance, on the websites of the two re-sell brokerages Wyndham recommends, I see an average price of about $15,000. As well as other brokerages on-line - they show anywhere from $6000 to $26,000.
When I look on Ebay or TUG, I see about $500 average price for a comparable timeshare for sale.

That's a HUGE difference.

Thank you for your help.



Those not on eBay or TUG need to purchase someplace.........




.
 

vacationtime1

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The price discrepancy is due to lack of information. Uninformed TS owners want to believe their units are worth what they paid for them; educated owners know better. So the uninformed list their units -- with brokers, SMTN*, etc. -- at their pie-in-the-sky prices, where they languish on the market for years.

As a buyer, would you be making offers on the TS listed for $500 on TUG or eBay or the identical unit listed on SMTN or elsewhere for $15,000? So if you want to be a seller (rather than a frustrated owner who cannot seem to sell), list your TS at its fair market value rather than an unrealistic price.

* SMTN = sellmytimesharenow.com, a website with generally unrealistic prices which makes most of its money via listing fees.
 

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Thank you vacationtime1, TheTimeTraveler, and Passepartout for your comments.

My question has way less to do with what I should do, or with what others feel I should do, than it is a request for factual information. I would like to know if there is some missing piece of information (from someone who knows - facts, not opinions) about my question.

To clarify further, why would brokerages list re-sale timeshares at a ridiculously inflated price, one that they can never sell at. And it's not because they'd be making money off the seller. The two brokerages that are recommended by Wyndham offered to buy my points at about what I see it selling at on TUG and Ebay - no out of pocket to me. I'm just wanting to know if they will do that and then turn around and actually sell it at the price I see them listed at. Do they actually sell for many thousands of $$
 

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Passepartout

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Do they actually sell for many thousands of $$
Not to informed buyers, but P.T.Barnum told us that there's a fool born every minute- and that's usually enough to make a good living.
 

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My question has way less to do with what I should do, or with what others feel I should do, than it is a request for factual information. I would like to know if there is some missing piece of information (from someone who knows - facts, not opinions) about my question.
You got an answer. You just didn't like it, so you are asking again.

Try listing it for $10K and see if you sell it. After all, you might get lucky; you only need one buyer, and they need not be informed. But, that's hard to do because timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought.
 

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"""P.T.Barnum told us that there's a fool born every minute- and that's usually enough to make a good living."""

"""You got an answer. You just didn't like it, so you are asking again."""

Not really.

I am not looking for subjective comments, comments about what I should do, or would be foolish to do, or opinions.

"""Try listing it for $10K and see if you sell it."""

"""So if you want to be a seller (rather than a frustrated owner who cannot seem to sell), list your TS at its fair market value rather than an unrealistic price."""

If you read my comments, I am not trying to list anything - - for $10K, $6K or any $K.

I have an offer for more than $500 from a broker - no out of pocket cost to me, no closing costs, no listing costs - I'm done - out. No sitting and waiting for it to sell. I'm only trying to assess whether or not this is a good deal when I see they have the same thing listed on their website for sale for $15,000.

If you have factual information about what I'm asking, I'd love to hear it. Not interested in snide or subjective comments, opinions, etc.

Thank you for your time.
 

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"""P.T.Barnum told us that there's a fool born every minute- and that's usually enough to make a good living."""

"""You got an answer. You just didn't like it, so you are asking again."""

Not really.

I am not looking for subjective comments, comments about what I should do, or would be foolish to do, or opinions.

"""Try listing it for $10K and see if you sell it."""

"""So if you want to be a seller (rather than a frustrated owner who cannot seem to sell), list your TS at its fair market value rather than an unrealistic price."""

If you read my comments, I am not trying to list anything - - for $10K, $6K or any $K.

I have an offer for more than $500 from a broker - no out of pocket cost to me, no closing costs, no listing costs - I'm done - out. No sitting and waiting for it to sell. I'm only trying to assess whether or not this is a good deal when I see they have the same thing listed on their website for sale for $15,000.

If you have factual information about what I'm asking, I'd love to hear it. Not interested in snide or subjective comments, opinions, etc.

Thank you for your time.
If you bought retail from Wyndham, why not try their Ovations Limited Edition program in which you get three (3) years of MF usage for free? Those brokers work closely with Wyndham. Those brokers know they can't sell for $15k, but are doing it per Wyndham's bidding. Wyndham likely refers to "third party" brokers' prices during their stupid sales presentations.

If the TS doesn't sell, the broker sells it back to Wyndham for about $2-4k, depending on size and desirability of the contract. Wyndham will then sell it to some unsuspecting new TS owner for $20-30k.
 

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If you bought retail from Wyndham, why not try their Ovations Limited Edition program in which you get three (3) years of MF usage for free? Those brokers work closely with Wyndham. Those brokers know they can't sell for $15k, but are doing it per Wyndham's bidding. Wyndham likely refers to "third party" brokers' prices during their stupid sales presentations.

If the TS doesn't sell, the broker sells it back to Wyndham for about $2-4k, depending on size and desirability of the contract. Wyndham will then sell it to some unsuspecting new TS owner for $20-30k.

Thank you, Grammarhero. This is a bit of the information I was hoping for, some more insight in to how these "Wyndham recommended and preferred" re-sale brokers operate.

I did call the Ovations department. Basically you just give your timeshare(s) back to them - no income from their sale. ...or re-sale.
Two of our timeshares are property-based timeshares. They're probably not worth anything and we'll probably do that with their Ovation Department. I can't just yet because I have some of those points rented and have to wait until those clear.

But we do have some Wyndham Club Access points which are more desirable in the re-sale marked. Lower maintenance fees (not tied to a property), and special features which let you make reservations 3 months prior to the standard (other) property-tied timeshares. These are the points I am trying to see what we can get for them.

Without any information about how they all operate together, all I could see is that these two brokers are offering about $500 for our Club Access points, when I see the same thing listed on their website for $15,000. Just trying to figure out if I'm being taken for a lot of $$.

If I can only sell our Club Access points for about the same amount as what they are offering, with no further time or cost to me, it's a no-brainer. But, ...if there's some more information that I could use to get more $$ for it from them, I'd like to know.

Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated!
 

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Thank you, Grammarhero. This is a bit of the information I was hoping for, some more insight in to how these "Wyndham recommended and preferred" re-sale brokers operate.

I did call the Ovations department. Basically you just give your timeshare(s) back to them - no income from their sale. ...or re-sale.
Two of our timeshares are property-based timeshares. They're probably not worth anything and we'll probably do that with their Ovation Department. I can't just yet because I have some of those points rented and have to wait until those clear.

But we do have some Wyndham Club Access points which are more desirable in the re-sale marked. Lower maintenance fees (not tied to a property), and special features which let you make reservations 3 months prior to the standard (other) property-tied timeshares. These are the points I am trying to see what we can get for them.

Without any information about how they all operate together, all I could see is that these two brokers are offering about $500 for our Club Access points, when I see the same thing listed on their website for $15,000. Just trying to figure out if I'm being taken for a lot of $$.

If I can only sell our Club Access points for about the same amount as what they are offering, with no further time or cost to me, it's a no-brainer. But, ...if there's some more information that I could use to get more $$ for it from them, I'd like to know.

Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated!
Have you tried asking Wyndham for their "Ovations Limited Edition" program? You get three years of free TS usage without paying MF.

Unfortunately, I believe the $15k price from affiliated TS brokers is so Wyndham could hookwink their buyers into a false sense of the resale value.
 

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Without any information about how they all operate together, all I could see is that these two brokers are offering about $500 for our Club Access points, when I see the same thing listed on their website for $15,000. Just trying to figure out if I'm being taken for a lot of $$.

The simple answer to your question is "No".

George
 

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But we do have some Wyndham Club Access points which are more desirable in the re-sale marked. Lower maintenance fees (not tied to a property), and special features which let you make reservations 3 months prior to the standard (other) property-tied timeshares. These are the points I am trying to see what we can get for them

Maintenance fees on CWA are not particularly low, and if you follow the sales prices of various Wyndham locations you’ll see a number of deeded locations with the lowest fees sell for the highest prices. CWA is decidedly average.

An eBay search for Club Wyndham Access filtered on sold listings will show you the current market. Be sure to click through to the description to see whether the seller or buyer paid the closing costs as well. The most recent sale was 554,000 points that sold for $690, with seller paying closing and transfer fees. You would get more value out of Ovations in that instance.
 

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Have you tried asking Wyndham for their "Ovations Limited Edition" program? You get three years of free TS usage without paying MF.

Unfortunately, I believe the $15k price from affiliated TS brokers is so Wyndham could hookwink their buyers into a false sense of the resale value.

The Ovations Limited Edition program is a good tip. I had only checked into the Ovations department that takes back unwanted timeshares.

But that said, we are in a different season of life and not using our timeshare anymore. Previously my goal has been to rent our points and just try and break even with Extra Holidays, wait and see what the future held to see if we'd come back to using it again. That's worked ok for the past 8 years. But now the maintenance fees have gone up so much that it's just not a good deal anymore. What it costs per point to travel is just too high for us. There are other ways to travel now that cost less and have more flexibility.

And also a good tip, "Unfortunately, I believe the $15k price from affiliated TS brokers is so Wyndham could hookwink their buyers into a false sense of the resale value." The reason I even gave it a second thought is that I had researched online and found quite a few more re-sale brokerages listing similar prices - and even higher.

Also, come on, the very same place that's offering me $500 has the same thing listed for $15,000. The very same people saying, "Your timeshare isn't worth anything," has the same thing listed for 30 times as much as they're offering.
..............I just had to know what the deal was. ..............I'm a researcher and deal in information.

What you say makes sense. And it's probably enough information to make a decision with. So,

THANK YOU! ...for your time and consideration in replying to me with facts.

Much appreciated!
 

DannyTS

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I am not blaming anyone who paid retail prices dreaming that they would get some of their "investment" back when they sell. Say you paid 60k for a week, the developer cost is 30k. Without knowing much about timeshares, it does not sound right that you would only get 1k for it or have to pay someone to take it off your hands.
I agree with vacationtime1, the lack of information can also contribute to the huge difference in prices. This is true at both ends of the offer. Some people still believe that they can get money selling their worthless timeshare while others that own something of value are told by exit companies that everything on the market is worth zero dollars or less.
 
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pedro47

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IMHO....I have been in this for a very long time. In the beginning there was no resell timeshares or a resell timeshare market or a TUG website. The majority of all timeshare were brand new or were only under constructions by various developers and you had to purchase from a developer.

Liked so many of us did in the beginning. Prices for a deeded prime red week were under $12,000 dollars and MF were under $400 per year for a Prime Red Week.

40 plus years later you have major hotel chains into timeshare and selling them with points for $20,000 to $60,000 ocean front timeshares. Also, Mf are now ranging from $600 to $1800.00. Per Year. Not including yearly club dues.

Fast forward to 2020 you now have this resale market and TUG website and the many truth about timeshare selling costs.

Lesson learn:
You can not sell your timeshare for the price, you paid for it from the developers . A timeshare is not an investment that will increase in value. It is a vacation purchase for enjoyment usage with family members and friends. It is a force vacation time.IMHO.
 
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The Ovations Limited Edition program is a good tip. I had only checked into the Ovations department that takes back unwanted timeshares.

But that said, we are in a different season of life and not using our timeshare anymore. Previously my goal has been to rent our points and just try and break even with Extra Holidays, wait and see what the future held to see if we'd come back to using it again. That's worked ok for the past 8 years. But now the maintenance fees have gone up so much that it's just not a good deal anymore. What it costs per point to travel is just too high for us. There are other ways to travel now that cost less and have more flexibility.

And also a good tip, "Unfortunately, I believe the $15k price from affiliated TS brokers is so Wyndham could hookwink their buyers into a false sense of the resale value." The reason I even gave it a second thought is that I had researched online and found quite a few more re-sale brokerages listing similar prices - and even higher.

Also, come on, the very same place that's offering me $500 has the same thing listed for $15,000. The very same people saying, "Your timeshare isn't worth anything," has the same thing listed for 30 times as much as they're offering.
..............I just had to know what the deal was. ..............I'm a researcher and deal in information.

What you say makes sense. And it's probably enough information to make a decision with. So,

THANK YOU! ...for your time and consideration in replying to me with facts.

Much appreciated!

I’m an evidence based decision maker as well so I can respect your desire to perform due diligence on pricing. The timeshare sales vertical is one of a few remaining verticals that really try hard to take advantage of “caveat emptor” in the marketplace. Hence the wild pricing variances in play. The entire industry functions using high pressure sales tactics combined with misinformation and disinformation protocols that are designed to play on people’s emotions in order to sell timeshares based almost universally on what we affectionately call “perceived value” here on TUG. In other words - timeshares are worth what you think they are worth and nothing more. What the timeshares are actually worth as set by the market is almost nothing - the actual value is near zero - because modern points based timeshares aren’t real estate and are really just a way of financing the future value of a lifetime of vacations to today’s present value prices. Since your future vacations are worth nothing to anyone else - it’s worth almost nothing on the resale market. The entire industry counts on people not performing due diligence and catching these people off guard while on vacation, and employing misleading high pressure sales tactics to make a sale.

You are finding large discrepancies in pricing because the resale timeshare industry still on some level counts on using a “lesser version” of the same tactics. Let’s use an example. A newbie attends a timeshare presentation at a resort and somehow manages not to purchase directly from the timeshare developer. They start searching on the internet for comparative pricing. It’s no accident that many of the more expensive resale timeshare agencies show up first in the search results - like SMTN for example - because they pay handsomely for their website to show up as an Ad hit. If the person is looking at the SMTN price and comparing it to developer pricing - it’s going to provide a significant discount in comparison. If the person then contacts SMTN and stops their due diligence - SMTN can make a very profitable sale while still leading the buyer to think they are getting a “good deal” yes? If the buyer continues their due diligence, as you have obviously done, they will find listings on eBay that don’t line up with the resale pricing on sites like SMTN or the brokers associated with Wyndham.

As GH has said - the brokers associated with Wyndham do the same thing. They hope to make a sale to buyers who aren’t performing significant due diligence for an inflated resale price. In some cases Wyndham will recommend these third parties to a buyer who has zero interest in purchasing retail from the developer. The brokers make decent coin if they can convince an unsuspecting buyer to pay too much for a resale contract in the process. If not, as you found, the broker will discount it heavily behind the scenes to facilitate a quick sale on behalf of the seller - and in these cases almost universally Wyndham is the buyer. Wyndam then recycles the points into their developer timeshare points pool and the sales and marketing division sells those recovered points as retail developer points.

It can really make your head hurt and leave a bad taste in your mouth when you piece it all apart. It’s an industry ripe for regulatory reform to say the least. Kudos to you for doing your due diligence.




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qwerty

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Hello,
I am wanting to sell our Wyndham Club Access points. I see a huge difference in listed prices for a comparable timeshare as what we have and want to sell.

For instance, on the websites of the two re-sell brokerages Wyndham recommends, I see an average price of about $15,000. As well as other brokerages on-line - they show anywhere from $6000 to $26,000.
When I look on Ebay or TUG, I see about $500 average price for a comparable timeshare for sale.

That's a HUGE difference.

Thank you for your help.
Although having acquired our first timeshare at a very high cost, we never regretted our decision. At the time, I don't think there was any resale market and amortized the cost in our mind over a twenty year time frame. After twenty five years of usage, the cost has averaged out to an insignificant amount. A short time later after buying that first T/S, we acquired a resale studio Hawaii T/S while on vacation. That was acquired when RCI had an exchange system that was advantageous to what we owned. When RCI changed to a Trading Power exchange, we were fortunately able to sell our Hawaii T/S for a little more than what we paid.
Fast forward to today, we can not give our T/S anyway. Current owners at our resort are offering a bonus and or free usage just to give their week away.
All in all, we believe in the idea of owning a vacation spot.
But from what I've seen on TUG, more often than not, many who acquired a T/S have circumstances that forces them to rid themselves of their obligation.
Except for those such as Disney, most T/S would need to be given away.
For now, the resale availability will keep getting larger as developers still have a successful marketing plan.
At some point, there might only be only resales that are being sold.
If that happens, maybe no more T/S will be developed.
If that happens, maybe the resale market will improve.
In my opinion though, the high end developers such as Disney will probably continue to expand.
 

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I have been in this for a very long time. In the beginning there was no resell timeshares or a resell timeshare market or a TUG website. The majority of all timeshare were brand new or were only under constructions by various developers and you had to purchase from a developer.

What you say is true. In the early days I owned 4 Marriott Weeks, 3 purchased pre-construction from Marriott. What is different today from then was that Marriott had an active Resale Department and controlled the value of resales by refusing to sell them for less than their asking prices. They did this for a 20% commission. I sold all 4 or my weeks (Marriott sold 2 of them for me). If I put all 4 I sold in one bucket I sold them for more than I paid for them. Oh, for the good old days...

George
 

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I’m an evidence based decision maker as well so I can respect your desire to perform due diligence on pricing. The timeshare sales vertical is one of a few remaining verticals that really try hard to take advantage of “caveat emptor” in the marketplace. Hence the wild pricing variances in play. The entire industry functions using high pressure sales tactics combined with misinformation and disinformation protocols that are designed to play on people’s emotions in order to sell timeshares based almost universally on what we affectionately call “perceived value” here on TUG. In other words - timeshares are worth what you think they are worth and nothing more. What the timeshares are actually worth as set by the market is almost nothing - the actual value is near zero - because modern points based timeshares aren’t real estate and are really just a way of financing the future value of a lifetime of vacations to today’s present value prices. Since your future vacations are worth nothing to anyone else - it’s worth almost nothing on the resale market. The entire industry counts on people not performing due diligence and catching these people off guard while on vacation, and employing misleading high pressure sales tactics to make a sale.

You are finding large discrepancies in pricing because the resale timeshare industry still on some level counts on using a “lesser version” of the same tactics. Let’s use an example. A newbie attends a timeshare presentation at a resort and somehow manages not to purchase directly from the timeshare developer. They start searching on the internet for comparative pricing. It’s no accident that many of the more expensive resale timeshare agencies show up first in the search results - like SMTN for example - because they pay handsomely for their website to show up as an Ad hit. If the person is looking at the SMTN price and comparing it to developer pricing - it’s going to provide a significant discount in comparison. If the person then contacts SMTN and stops their due diligence - SMTN can make a very profitable sale while still leading the buyer to think they are getting a “good deal” yes? If the buyer continues their due diligence, as you have obviously done, they will find listings on eBay that don’t line up with the resale pricing on sites like SMTN or the brokers associated with Wyndham.

As GH has said - the brokers associated with Wyndham do the same thing. They hope to make a sale to buyers who aren’t performing significant due diligence for an inflated resale price. In some cases Wyndham will recommend these third parties to a buyer who has zero interest in purchasing retail from the developer. The brokers make decent coin if they can convince an unsuspecting buyer to pay too much for a resale contract in the process. If not, as you found, the broker will discount it heavily behind the scenes to facilitate a quick sale on behalf of the seller - and in these cases almost universally Wyndham is the buyer. Wyndam then recycles the points into their developer timeshare points pool and the sales and marketing division sells those recovered points as retail developer points.

It can really make your head hurt and leave a bad taste in your mouth when you piece it all apart. It’s an industry ripe for regulatory reform to say the least. Kudos to you for doing your due diligence.




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Thank you Hitchiker! I've printed it and am hanging it on the wall. Next to a copy of my overpriced developer contract. Next to a copy of my Redweek ad trying to sell said overpriced contract at 10% of what I bought it for (unsuccessful of course). Next to my diploma in "learning about timeshares after you've bought them" from TUG (-:). The one thing I would add from a previous post in this thread is the point of increasing maintenance fees. They are insidious. They make the use of the timeshare increasingly expensive over time and, likewise, make it more difficult to unload the timeshare as the years go by.
 

Archivist

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Thank you to all the FACT-BASED replies, and for information that applies to my situation. (I'm sure you are all lovely people, but we'll never meet, and I'm not interested in reading and reading about you, your opinions, thoughts, and your situation, and your lectures.)

I feel like I keep getting lectured re: "You can't sell your timeshare for what you bought it for!"
..............I never thought I could. Didn't need the lectures and going on and on about that.

I only wanted FACTUAL information about why the same brokerage that was offering me $500 for the same thing they had listed for $15,000.
I paid $15 just to ask this one question. I thought of all places I could get a good answer here. ..........Not sure I got my money's worth.

We have been TS owners for over 30 years. We own 3 different TS. However, we only paid a "new" price for one of them - the Club Access points - which came with a "free" property-based TS (more points). The first one we bought on the re-sale market for a much reduced price - an 8th of what it cost new. We did that when not many people were.

So don't need any lectures about buying re-sale.

I do not have the band-width to list our timeshares for sale anywhere, don't have the time to babysit it, answer questions, read and read and read to do the research about all of that scenario.
That was never my intent.

I was always and only going to:
1) give our timeshares back to Wyndham for nothing to be free of the MFs.
2) give the most valuable one to one of Wyndham's recommended brokerages to sell for WHATEVER I could get. Something is better than nothing.

I chose one of the Wyndham-recommended brokerages for our Club Access points because:
1) They already have an "IN" with Wyndham - streamlined paperwork and closing stuff
2) I don't have to do anything but sign
3) If I have problems or difficulties with them, I can complain to Wyndham's Owner Care department and get resolve. I don't have this feature with any other brokerage.

Again, Thank you to all the FACT-BASED replies, and for information that applies to my situation. I think I'm pretty done with this thread, unless you have FACT-BASED and SPECIFIC information about my original question.

Thank you!
 

Steve2

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Thank you vacationtime1, TheTimeTraveler, and Passepartout for your comments.

My question has way less to do with what I should do, or with what others feel I should do, than it is a request for factual information. I would like to know if there is some missing piece of information (from someone who knows - facts, not opinions) about my question.

To clarify further, why would brokerages list re-sale timeshares at a ridiculously inflated price, one that they can never sell at. And it's not because they'd be making money off the seller. The two brokerages that are recommended by Wyndham offered to buy my points at about what I see it selling at on TUG and Ebay - no out of pocket to me. I'm just wanting to know if they will do that and then turn around and actually sell it at the price I see them listed at. Do they actually sell for many thousands of $$

If you sell to whymdam they will resell the point in the sales office that we are all familiar with at a slight discount and tell the buyer that there are only so many other these points available as they were repossessed or whatever to make the buyer seem there not paying full Devloper prices. I have had this offered to me a few time... as far as brokers if they find someone that has no clue but seem less expensive than the Developer points they possible could purchase at that price point thinking they got a deal
BWDIK
 

Archivist

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If you sell to whymdam they will resell the point in the sales office that we are all familiar with at a slight discount and tell the buyer that there are only so many other these points available as they were repossessed or whatever to make the buyer seem there not paying full Devloper prices. I have had this offered to me a few time... as far as brokers if they find someone that has no clue but seem less expensive than the Developer points they possible could purchase at that price point thinking they got a deal
BWDIK

I can't "sell to whymdam," (do you mean Wyndham?). This is not an option.
I can give my TS back to them at no cost to me - free and clear - I get no money from them. But I would be free of MF.

"as far as brokers if they find someone that has no clue but seem less expensive than the Developer points they possible could purchase at that price point thinking they got a deal"
NO idea what you mean. Doesn't apply to me, whatever you're trying to say.

As I've already said, I'm selling the only TS I have that is worth anything to one of the Wyndham-recommended brokers, for reasons stated above.
See my last post.
 
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