Which wyndham resorts would you recommend for a first purchase?

[disneygirl77]

I have been reading so much the past few days I think all I have done is confuse myself more!

Looking for some newbie advice on resort choice!

Here is my line of thinking....

1. Want to be able to stay at Bonnet Creek but I hear it is big and a lot of availability and we dont necessarily have to go at the ideal times. Not sure if I should buy BC or something else. I really like the idea of owning at BC but I don't want to be one of those people who pays too much to get in when I could get the same thing for so much less! So it is important for me to think of all points.

2. I am thinking that being able to get a summer week at a resort on the beach (myrtle, obx, daytona) every once in awhile would be nice. It wouldn't be our main focus for use of the TS but I keep debating if I should be considering this as I keep reading posts that you have to own a beach resort in order to get a summer beach week. Also although we are in NY we have family in SC but not on the coast and if I ever had unused points I could easily rent to them for short stays if it was something a few hours from them. I don't want them to be the basis for my decision but they could be a possible renter for me if I am in a bind and can't use it one year.

3. MFs are importnat to me! Afterall I do not want to pay any more for something than I have to. I am trying to get the best overall deal. I am having trouble really finding a comprehensive list to compare the MFs at each resort easily. I would consider any resort if the MFs were low and I could get over my issues in # 1 and 2.

Any and all advice is extremely appreciated! I have learned so much from this site already! Thank you!!!

 

[chapjim]

Based on what you are saying, I'd look at Wyndham Smoky Mountains. There are a few with slightly lower maintenance fees but they also carry some risk that the fees will rise. Plus, it's a nice location although it is a haul from anyplace in NY. It's a good day's drive from the DC area.

If you can plan ten months ahead, you'll be able to book all but the busiest weeks at Bonnet Creek. Same with Daytona and the Myrtle Beach resorts. Wyndham has nothing in the Outer Banks -- Harbor is the closest and it's a riverfront place.

I'd look for enough points to allow you to book a 2BR unit at Bonnet Creek (224K max) or Ocean Walk (203K) and maybe another 100K so you could book a weekend in the Berkshires or maybe Atlantic City, off prime. 308K is a frequently seen contract and should do you nicely.

 

[e.bram]

Wyndham Newport Overlook in Jamestown, RI. Easy trip(3 Hrs) by car from NY if you can't get the trade you want. Two Br townhouses right ON the bay across from Newport RI.

 

[andex]

I bought Bonnet creek last week. I think I got a fair price considering the closing fees, and transfer fees were paid by the seller. My cost was below 1 years MF.
The reason I settled on BC was this:
A) Location, location, location means an easy exit strategy.
B) If Wyndham sells the property it should work out because of the location.
C) MF 5.07 seemed reasonable to me.
D) Newer resort might mean less chance of special assessment.
E) Location is far enough from ocean again hopefully missing major hurricanes ect.
F) Because it’s newer it will still have appeal in 5-10 years compared to older properties available today.
I am new to this but that was my reasoning. Hope it helps?

 

[andex]

Oh one more reason, not sure if this will work well? If heaven forbid someone in my family fell sick, stopping us from traveling for a while. I might be able to use the 13 month window to pick prime time week with some appeal that might facilitate the possibility of renting out that week to recoup my cost. Or depositing the week with RCI extending the points another 2 years, with what I assume might be a good TPU or whatever they call it.

 

[pacodemountainside]

A couple thoughts, no pennies required!

In buying Wyndham the primary concerns are ARP and points MF. Buying resale is a no brainer!

Since you have indicated ARP is not a major concern that narrows it further. As many posters over the years have indicated at 10 month mark around 90% of inventory is available. Problem is generally if one wants large units at BC for red hot times, Mardi Gras, Daytona Race Week, ski resort for presidents week, etc. At BC in off season I have booked 1 BR, went to 2 BR with 25% discount and at day 17 upgraded to 3 BR with great view of fireworks. It does require some patience and active looking!

As far ar MF(actually HOA fees) as POA fees are constant there are several considerations. There is a great HOA fee calculator in Wyndham Form which is coming back to life. It shows HOA fees at virtually all Wyndham resorts for several years and is great to use in checking fees in Internet ads. For 2011 it breaks down by operations, reserves and taxes. Actually, one can deduct taxes in year resort PAID on 1040.

You will note quite a range and have to make some adjustments. For example if resort charges $175 to park and you will be parking must add in. If not ignore. The big variable is reserves. Developers like to keep HOA low to facilitate sales and claim new resort has contractor and manufacturer warranties so no cost. What this ignores is over say a ten year period the resort is wearing out. Typically at 4 year mark units need refurbishing especially since government made Developers start paying MF on unsold inventory and they started daily rentals to any one!. This can cost ball park $10K-$20K depending on quality of furnishings and fixtures. So, most resorts do a "component replacement worksheet" or whatever you want to call it. This shows all of the major items like unit furnishings, parking lots, roofs, A/C, boilers, pools, hot tubs, etc and how much it will cost to replace when they wear out. Oversimplying if at end of 2011 this shows there should be $10 million in savings account and there is a couple million a special assessment is guaranteed. Ballpark reserve fee should be around 20% of HOA or about a buck using CWA average HOA of $4.89.

Also, in looking at Internet ads, the very low MF resorts are not readily available so could take awhile to find one.

I would suggest considering renting from mega/Platnium owners. On Wyndham Forum some are as low as $4.50/ 1,000 points and and quite a few at $5.00. After Wyndham screwed with owners renting a couple years ago as it was hurting their EH rental subsidary they got shafted. See wyndsham.com for reductions in VIP benefits and increases in other fees! Considering VOI Trust was just reimbursed about $12 million by sales for providing VIP benefits in 2010(lastest year available) to approximately 100K VIPs(rough estimate) this indicates Wyndham only values them at $120 per VIP.


Most pay guest certificate and pass along their discounts. So can book at 10 month mark and cancel and rebook at say day 53 in the middle of day and end up with 2 BR unit for 100,000 points or $500. The pregnant question is how long will these continue. IMO a long time given how people hate Wyndham sales people and their "F" BBB rating.

Also, you are in charge of money. If you do 4-5 vacations this year and just 1-2 next you only pay for what you use! No worry about MF if disaster strikes and cannot pay MF!

Fairfield started points program in 1991 with creation of VOI Trust and at 12/31/2011 had about 523K members. Given that in hey day they were selling around 25K new owners a year but last two only 4K new ones each year. Many people like myself that bought 10-15-20 years ago now have to sell as not feasible to use and can't compete with mega renters! Looking at all the people trying to sell for $500, a thousand or even more than they paid I would suspect they will get real and reduce to market as MF get to be a bigger burden. IMO market is saturated and chances of a major recovery remote. Think about it, Wyndham says their brick and motar cost is about $.22 per dollar. The rest is hard selling expenses and profits. Just last week Main Man was interviewed on CNBC and pointed out that $10K in Wyndham stock three years ago is now worth over $140K and Board just increased the dividend. He obviously did not mention victim that bought a $10K timeshare three years ago would probably have to pay to get rid of it today! The whole concept of time sharing where a Developer takes a $200K condo, splits into 52 Intervals and sells it for $2 million has to tank at some point. The only people making out are Developer and of course Tax Assessor who gets a windfall and never reduces value to reflect todays market value!

Based on Wyndham's actions they have no intention of making peace with the VIPs, adding 4 owners to VOI Board much less establishing a resale program. Bill Spearman article in April 2010 TimeSharing today makes great reading. The RCI massacre of 1/11/11 where 28K deposits were exterminated speaks for its self.

Lasy year major time share developer spun off(got rid of) time share operation as was becoming an albratoss. Not sure if good or bad. Wyndham with its moth balling Desert Blue and pushing WAAM program also seems to be getting away from brick and motar!

The fortunate people who today buy resale or rent are getting fantastic accomodations for bargain prices while most of us rue the day the body snatchers got us.

 

[jjmanthei05]

One thing you may want to look at especially if you want summer Myrtle beach is to either look at myrtle beach itself or club wyndham access. With access it gives you 11 month arp at their locations so you wont get the very first access but it would give you some arp ability at multiple locations you are looking at.

Jason

 

[pacodemountainside]

Hi Jason:

I am confused by your post!

Following is excerpt from Wyndham web site on CWA availability.


******
South Carolina

Wyndham at The Cottages*
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard*
Wyndham Ocean Ridge*
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Lake Marion
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Towers on the Grove at North Myrtle Beach
Wyndham Westwinds*

Vermont

Wyndham Vacation Resorts Smugglers' Notch Vermont®***

Wyndham Vacation Resorts at Glacier Canyon

*Only a very limited amount of inventory in this resort is currently a part of CLUB WYNDHAM Access. As such, the ability to obtain a reservation at this resort during the 13 to 10 month ARP window is currently very limited and should not be anticipated.
**The ARP window for Wyndham Oceanside Pier Resort is available for stays between Labor Day and May 31. From May 31 to Labor Day reservations may be requested during the Standard Reservation window.
***The ARP for Wyndham Vacation Resorts Smugglers’ Notch Vermont® currently has limited availability for the month of July. Reservation requests are currently not available for stays between December 16 and December 31.
****The Advance Reservation Priority for Wyndham Vacation Resorts Emerald GrandeTM at Destin is available for stays between February and December. Reservation requests are not available for stays in January.


******


I do not understand where 11 months comes from.

As a a CWA owner I have not had any success in booking high demand resort, VC says lots of ARP inventory but no CWA. Have made several attempts over last two years! As a point of interest I read most Wyndham posts but do miss some and have never seen one where CWA owner got what they wanted and a happy camper!


IMO CWA is another sales gimmick that carries around a 20% premium when purchased from Developer although just a buck resale! Naive person buying from Developer will go with guaranteed ARP at BC or MB not pay a premium for CWA crap shoot!

ROFR is total scam as inferred by salespeople Wyndham will buy back your time share at a good price. LOL!

__________________

 

[rrlongwell]

I have been reading so much the past few days I think all I have done is confuse myself more! ... 3. MFs are importnat to me!

You sometimes get what you pay for. With Club Wyndham Access getting a larger and larger inventory and the Maintance Fees are averaged, this could be a major out year problem as the older resorts get older. The people commenting on ACCESS availability, their comments speak for themselves. I believe a flight to quality is in progress.

 

[learnalot]

Oh one more reason, not sure if this will work well? If heaven forbid someone in my family fell sick, stopping us from traveling for a while. I might be able to use the 13 month window to pick prime time week with some appeal that might facilitate the possibility of renting out that week to recoup my cost. Or depositing the week with RCI extending the points another 2 years, with what I assume might be a good TPU or whatever they call it.

Just FYI, Wyndham does not allow you to deposit a specific week with RCI. You deposit generic points which they will cover/have covered with bulk deposits at some point.

 

[andex]

Thanks for pointing that out learnalot.
Cheers

 

[ronparise]

Back to the ops question

If ARP is not a factor, buy where the mf is the best, but understand that generally speaking the less the mf the more the purchase price

You cannot predict where the specials assessments might happen or which resorts might increase mf more than others..You can try, buy you will almost always be wrong.. The conventtional wisdom here is that the newer resorts with an active Wyndham sales force are keep mf low (to help sales) and you can expect them to skyrocket when they are sold out. Others will tell you to stay away from the beach because of Hurricanes and salt air damage...

What hasnt been mentioned are the older resorts where everything was sold as fixed weeks.. Buy a 3 bedroom lock-off in Prime season there that has been converted to points, for some of the best dollars to point ratios in the system

If you want to make life easier, buy Club Wyndham Access. Because its a collection of Wyndham resorts, the mf is average, (about $5.30/1000) and if there is a Special Assessment at one property, the cost will be spread out among all the owners.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Hey Ron:

I tend to agree with your theory of the case on Points inflation as far as 1 BR costing say 200K points and MF just $3.00/ 1,000 may not be cheaper than 1 BR costing 100K points and MF $5.00/ 1,000. However, if you never stay there and do not pay say $175 parking fee, not positive!!

I am not sure how much correlation there is on low MF and higher points cost. Clearly on e-bay BC goes for a premium due to ARP vs small contracts, EOY contracts and low demand resorts. As I pointed out in original post there is not much resale available at very low MF resorts. Could be due to people being able to afford, can rent for low price, whatever? While buying there maybe sage advice, is it doable?

On Developer keeping MF low at new resort I do not have any specific facts to document a specific resort!. However, it is a fact that the lower a MF the easier to sell and it is a fact that Developer pays out of pocket for MF on unsold inventory. Also, some 15-20 years ago I owned around 15 condos that for the most part were apartments Developer converted. In virtually most cases once Developer sold 80% and had to leave Board Per Colorado law, major and very expensive problems were suddenly discovered.. The fresh coat of Kiltz paint that covered water leaking stains,, the oil sprayed on parking lot covering cracks and making shinny , the duct tape on the boiler, the structural cracks filled with caulk, etc. A timeshare is simply a condo divided into 52 Intervals and sold for exhorbitant price. I rest my case on circumstantial evidence!



I have to totally disagre with you on special assesments. They are not Eistein theories but simple 5th grade math and common sense.They are easily predictable.

If a resort prepares and adheres to reasonable budget each year, has an outside professional prepare "component reserve worksheet" and updates and funds every year, has a general contingency reserve, has replacement insurance, has flood, hurricane, earthquake insurance, etc. as applicable, and has betternment insurance(bring old resort up to code) then there will be no special assessments.

I am an MBA Accountant and if you show me the information above for any resort , I can easily tell you when a special assessment NEEDS to be made faster than I can do a Tax Return! . Granted resort can fudge and delay refurbishing units from 4 to 5 years, close a swimming pool or put a plastic tarp on leaking roof, se la vie!



It costs so much top operate a resort over say a ten year period and that can be reasonably estimated. If useful lifes could not be forecast by statisticans/experts insurance companies, etc. would not exist.



Also, think about Developers who put up thousands of sky scrapers and lease for long term. If they could not reasonably estimate costs and add a profit they would go bankrupt. Sure they have escalation clauses, but can you imagine tenant reaction if they made a special assessment because their profit was too low?

CWA is a great concept, but not in Wyndham world. I have tried to get information from Wyndham on ownership, etc. and they refuse to provide. So one has to go with what is availble.I have read most Wyndham posts here and virually all on Wyndham Forum and have only seen one that loved CWA. It appeared to be from a Wyndham salesperson who was mad at Forum members who suggested a Developer purchase from him be rescinded. He refused to ID self and comply with Forum policy and was excommunicated. Simply put, why would anyone who wants to go to BC pay a premium for CWA and go in the pot? I have had seveal proposals to trade in my points that have little ARP value for CWA or resort with lower HOA fee and get VIP Gold , but NO assurance I could get high demand resort or that my VIP benefits would be guaranteed! Think about it, if BC has say 30K CWA points that means about 100 people can get prime 3 BR there. Assume a couple hundred in January 2012 go for Presidents week 2013. First come, first gets and no inventory for rest of year! Doesn't make sense to me.

I understand original post was where to buy, but sometimes Plan B is more gooder!

 

[disneygirl77]

Thanks so much everyone for the responses. We are taking some time to think about it. No rush and lots to read about timeshares on here!

 

[Tia]

.... while most of us rue the day the body snatchers got us.

:hysterical: :hysterical: :rofl:

see your new to posting here, less then 10x's, stick around as need a good laugh now and again.

 

[ronparise]

:hysterical: :hysterical: :rofl:

see your new to posting here, less then 10x's, stick around as need a good laugh now and again.

pacodemountainside may be new here but he's been a fixture on the Wyndham owners forum for some time..since that sites been down for a while, I suspect he needed an outlet for his humor and good advice

 

[pacodemountainside]

Hey Tia:

Yes, I am native Denverite Western horse trader with a dry sense of humor that actively posts on Wyndham Forum(actually a mod there). Yes, I was suffering withdrawal symptoms after Wyndham Forum was down a month and fortunately a drinking buddy pointed me in this direction.

Glad you appreciate some humor, helps to alleviate pain of money lost buying a Wyndham VIP many moons ago.

FYI, if one rents residence, vacation home or time share for less than 15 days no tax is due nor completed dreaded Schedule E. If mortgage interest on time share it can be deducted on schedule A as can property taxes paid by resort in tax year 2011, not budgeted for 2012.

It has been a warm March here and bears are hungry and mad at early awaking. Lived in Frisco(Ski the Summit) for about 12 years and they can be dangerous. If hitting the woods strap on your 357 Magnum!

10/4 outta de back door on all four

 

[richjester]

Our ownerships at Old Town Alexandria and in South Carolina give us the most bang for our buck.

 

[legalfee]

We're new to the timeshare scene but we purchased off Ebay a floating week at Bluebeards Beach Club in St Thomas and have been very happy. The only downside to it was a $700 Special assessment and the deed took forever but the upside is all units will be remodeled. We haven't tried trading yet and we've only been there twice.