which TS closing co is the best?

[nolesman98]

I live in Fla, and am buying a Hyatt resale in Key West from an individual (not through a broker), and I want to get some opinions on the best closing agency to use. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[richardm]

Make sure you do all your due diligence- and ask your closing agent to provide you with a copy of the estoppels.

 

[icydog]

I have used many but now I use Timeshare Transfer almost exclusively. They charge $300 as per the instructions on their home page. They have closed four contracts for me so far without any hassles.

 

[Dave M]

Here is the wording from the "how to sell" article located at the top of the list of topics for this forum:

If you want to be somewhat secure in the closing process after you have negotiated a written deal, consider using one of the low-cost timeshare closing services such as JRA Services or Timeshare Transfer, so that neither the money nor the deed is disbursed until both are in the hands of the closing company. Your buyer might insist on using such a service. Fees are typically $300-$350 depending on what services you utilize. TimeTravel Traders will handle the closing for about $100, but the fee does not include escrow handling of purchase price funds. Or for $119 and a lot of paperwork, if you are comfortable with the details, you can be guided through a self-closing at TurboClose.

All companies mentioned are included based on numerous positive recommendations by TUGgers. Timeshare Closing Services was included in that paragraph until recently. I took them out based on the significant number of complaints here once they aligned themselves with one of the "postcard" companies.

 

[Debbyd57]

I have used TimesareTransfer and Time Travel Traders. Both were very efficient and good. I used Timeshare closing services or something like that when I purchased off of EBAY and it was a nightmare!!!!

 

[photosmike]

I have used Timeshare Transfer 2 times and have been very happy with their work.

Mike

 

[Running Man]

We used Timeshare Transfer this year and they were very efficient.

 

[Carolinian]

Many of the closing companies are located in Fla, and thus probably have deeds prepared by local attoneys, which is the key to being certain it is done right. However, I would not make that assumption. I would ask specifically, and not take vaguely ''an attorney reviewed'' or some such as an answer. It needs to be an attorney licensed in that state. The only closing company that seems to be consistent in only doing closings where they have locally licensed attorneys to prepare the documents that I am aware of is PCS Holdings, but with Florida there may be more options that are also reliable simply because so many of the closing companies are located there and thus probably have documents prepared by local attoneys. But again, the key is to ask.

 

[Dave H]

Carolinian:

Most closing companies here in Florida try to skirt the law and either make the buyer or seller the preparer of the deed. This is not the case if the person at the other end actually preparing the deed is a closing company employee. It is a way to attempt to beat the system.

According to Florida law, the only time a closing company or title company can legally prepare a deed in Florida is pursuant to the issuance of title insurance.

If the people are not purchasing title insurance, then by law the closing company employee is practicing law without a license (UPL). Again, they skirt it saying that it was prepared by the buyer or seller, but it is funny to see that the return after recording is the closing company.....

Oh and the closing company that did not technically prepare the closing documents got paid for a closing they did nothing on... makes sense now that I think about it.

Dave

 

[theo]

Huh??

Carolinian:

Most closing companies here in Florida try to skirt the law and either make the buyer or seller the preparer of the deed. This is not the case if the person at the other end actually preparing the deed is a closing company employee. It is a way to attempt to beat the system.

According to Florida law, the only time a closing company or title company can legally prepare a deed in Florida is pursuant to the issuance of title insurance.

If the people are not purchasing title insurance, then by law the closing company employee is practicing law without a license (UPL). Again, they skirt it saying that it was prepared by the buyer or seller, but it is funny to see that the return after recording is the closing company.....

Oh and the closing company that did not technically prepare the closing documents got paid for a closing they did nothing on... makes sense now that I think about it.

Dave

I'm truly puzzled by the above post. I've used Timeshare Transfer (based in Florida) seven or eight times in the past five or so years as either buyer or seller (Florida timeshares, in every instance). Throughout that entire time period, Timeshare Transfer (not the buyer or seller) has prepared the deed. Indeed, a very specific TT name actually appears upon each and every deed. TT has consistently used the same Florida attorney, whose original (not "stamped") signature appears upon every piece of correspondence I've received relating to each transaction. If relevant, I've never purchased title insurance, nor have I ever desired to do so.

In short, my experiences with this particular Florida closing company / attorney seem to differ quite a bit from the description portrayed in the above quoted post since (...at least as far as I can tell) a clearly named attorney is actively involved in (and signing off on) each step of the transaction process.

 

[Carolinian]

While I don't know the situation in Florida, I have seen some of these out of state closing companies' deeds in North Carolina which are all obvious run off the same computer but list the buyer or seller as the deed preparer. It was obvious to me that they were trying to game the system and disguise a violation of the criminal law of the state.

In North Carolina, a corporation has been held not to have a right to represent itself in court; it must do so through a lawyer. An individual may do so but not a corporation. It seems to me that the same principle would apply to a corporation preparing its own deeds, but I have never looked up the case law on that, if there has been any. Some of these out of state closing companies list corporations as the deed preparer when a corporation is the seller, such as a PCC.

 

[Dave H]

I'm truly puzzled by the above post. I've used Timeshare Transfer (based in Florida) seven or eight times in the past five or so years as either buyer or seller (Florida timeshares, in every instance). Throughout that entire time period, Timeshare Transfer (not the buyer or seller) has prepared the deed. Indeed, a very specific TT name actually appears upon each and every deed. TT has consistently used the same Florida attorney, whose original (not "stamped") signature appears upon every piece of correspondence I've received relating to each transaction. If relevant, I've never purchased title insurance, nor have I ever desired to do so.

In short, my experiences with this particular Florida closing company / attorney seem to differ quite a bit from the description portrayed in the above quoted post since (...at least as far as I can tell) a clearly named attorney is actively involved in (and signing off on) each step of the transaction process.

Theo: They are one of about 50 closing companies in Florida. There are many many "closing companies" pulling this deal. Actually TT should have the attorney name as the prepared by as the closing company can only prepare the deed if title is being issued.

 

[theo]

Still a bit puzzled...

Theo: They are one of about 50 closing companies in Florida. There are many many "closing companies" pulling this deal. Actually TT should have the attorney name as the prepared by as the closing company can only prepare the deed if title is being issued.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here (...or maybe I'm just dense), but if a named Florida attorney reviews and signs all other documents in the transaction, what on earth difference does it make if an office paralegal has merely constructed for the attorney the particular piece of paper constituting the actual deed?
That seems (to me, anyhow) to be little more than wisely efficient use of an attorneys' time. Also, as often as not, the new warranty deed is nothing more than an exact duplicate of the previous warranty deed, with different names and addresses for grantor and grantee. I must be mssing something here...

 

[Dave H]

It is ok for the office paralegal or other office staff to prepare the deed, however they are doing that in the scope of the law firm.

If ABC closing company owned by Joe Smith an attorney prepares the deed, then the prepared by should read:

Joe Smith, P.A. or Joe Smith, ESQ
Not ABC Closing Company.

The attorney or the firm is the only people that can prepare the deed. The closing company by state statute is not allowed to appear on there unless title insurance is being given.

It could raise an issue if a deed were to be challenged that the closing company lacked authority to prepare the deed without title insurance and then engaged in UPL for preparing the deed.

The way MOST not ALL of the companies try to get around it is like this:

This Document was prepared by
Theo
1234 Any Street
Any Town, FL 12345

Return this document to
ABC Closing Company
1234 Any Street
Any Town, FL 12345

There are 3 people in Florida that can legally prepare a deed when no title insurance is being given. The Grantor (seller), the Grantee (Buyer) or a member of the Florida Bar... notice I did not say an attorney. Being licensed in VA does not give you the authority to prepare deeds in other states.

There are many companies that will say Theo prepared his own deed, but you are sending it back to the closing company to process... we all really know what the deal is, the closing company is trying to skirt the law, but did Theo walk into their offices and "prepare" the deed?

If they did and used you as the preparer, then should they be paid for part of the job of preparing the deed?

And no, the warranty deed is not always an "exact" duplicate of the old deed. Many states promulgate the form to be used. Many outside companies use the standard warranty deed, but standard is not always the standard.

Also, I have been running in to a lot of deeds that either lack the week number or are totally incorrect. I have a client right now trying to sell a timeshare that the unit week is totally wrong based on what he purchased and what the document says. So if I just copied the old deed, the new buyer would have a defective deed.... Good thing the buyer elected title insurance as the "old" records were not available on line and someone had to go look at the original documents from purchase.

 

[theo]

And no, the warranty deed is not always an "exact" duplicate of the old deed. Many states promulgate the form to be used. Many outside companies use the standard warranty deed, but standard is not always the standard.

In the interests of accurate quoting, my words were "as often as not"; I never stated or in any way remotely implied "always"...

My own experiences with and knowledge of real estate laws are surely much less than yours. My half dozen or so experiences are limited to Florida transactions of Florida timeshares using just one particular Florida closing company who engages a Florida bar member attorney at each step of the process. You're likely absolutely right in the technical details; I guess I just plain don't see the substantive underlying issue of concern, unless that issue is simply your position that "title insurance is a good thing".

 

[Dave H]

I have always said get title insurance when you are over your risk tolerence. Would I buy it for a $500 deal, no, would I buy it on a 10k purchase most likely...

The question is more if some where to challenge a deed in the future for whatever reason. Also so we are not splitting hairs, my always if you read it in context does not imply that all deeds are exact duplicates.

 

[Carolinian]

I generally would not obtain title insurance on most timeshares. However, I would want a valid deed, and I would insist on a deed prepared by a licensed attorney in the state where the timeshare is located. On a Florida timeshare, with a Florida closing company, I would call and ask some detailed questions about their process.

Laymen at closing companies or resellers sometimes cannot even get it right if they have a ''go by'' deed from the same resort. I know of one instance on the OBX where about fifteen or twenty years ago, the HOA sold something over a hundred weeks wholesale to an out of state reseller. The resellers set about marketing those weeks and had sold all but a handful before the NC Real Estate Commission jumped them for not being registered as a timeshare developer in North Carolina, as they were deemed in North Carolina law and they had to stop. The reseller or its closer (in those days the deed did not have to have a statement as to who prepared it) had obtained a ''go by'' deed from the resort. On each deed they prepared on weeks sold they changed the unit and week number on the short index desciption at the top of the deed, but left the unit and week numbers from the ''go by'' in the legal description in the body of the deed. The index description has no legal effect, so every one of those deeds conveyed a unit/week that they had never owned in the first place, so the buyer received nothing from those deeds.

This error was caught by the HOA secretary, who was not a lawyer but it struck him as wrong so he asked the HOA attorney, who normally would not look at deeds of weeks at the resort unless the HOA itself were a party. The HOA attorney said that every deed was void as to transfering the weeks people thought they bought. The HOA raised the issue with the reseller who said it was too much toruble and expense to prepare new deeds and refused to do so. The HOA then got them to agree to sign a quitclaim deed back to the HOA of all of the weeks originally wholesaled, and offered to execute valid non-warranty deeds to each of the buyers of those weeks as long as they paid the cost of deed preparation, for which the HOA attorney gave a discounted rate. Most took the HOA up on that arrangement. For the few who did not, the HOA continued to treat them as owners and billed maintenance fees, noting ''title problem'' however on resort records. When subsequent buyers of those weeks discovered this, the HOA has continued its policy of executing non-warranty deeds for those weeks when requested.

If the reseller had instead quitclaimed all of those weeks to a third person, and that person had executed correct deeds, the original buyers would have simply been out of luck.

In those days, the resale market seems to have been much better, as the tax stamps show that even blue weeks were being resold for over a thousand dollars each.