• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Which point system is most profitable for rentals?

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
There are several people here that rent lots of units. Let's get their feedback.

As for me, I own Wyndham and Bluegreen and have tried renting both.

I find that in both systems, breaking even is the norm. With a lot of time and effort, you can turn a small profit. For the no hassle approach of hiring others, you will likely recoup less than your annual fees. This is why resale points for both systems are free or very cheap to acquire.

However, I have VIP status at Wyndham. Therefore, I can and do profit some. But when you consider the high upfront cost of getting VIP and the time spent on renting, most feel that it isn't worth it. With guaranteed interest rates at 1-3% or so, I think any investment that makes more than that isn't so bad.

Some other systems cost more: DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Sheraton, Holiday Inn... Can I assume that the profits are greater? The more you pay upfront, the more you should make renting each year, right?
 

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
266
Points
294
Location
Virginia
None of the systems in which I own...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,053
Reaction score
4,707
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Isn't that a little like asking what resort has a low MF's, can be had for a few dollars and gets great exchange power? I would think if someone knows. they wouldn't want to advertise it for additional competition. That being said I am in the fair amount of work for small profit boat but enjoy it and hope it doesn't turn into lots of work and losing money with no way to get rid of what I have.

I would think inheriting platinum status along with the knowledge of making it work, seems like a a way to make profit or just lucking into a high points value week just before it gets acquired by a good points system and being grandfathered into the new system without an additional purchase.
 
Last edited:

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,779
Reaction score
5,502
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
DVC ROI percentage on resale points can range from high single digits to low teens in the current marketplace. Once you add in the amount of time it takes to do at scale, and subtract your hourly labor rate, you're probably back in negative territory.

If any of these were screamingly good earners, more people would have found them and exploited them (and, in turn, probably reduced the potential ROI). The few I know who are successful have either found a very specific niche, or found a rare situation or two to get their cost of acquisition way down.
 

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
Isn't that a little like asking what resort has a low MF's, can be had for a few dollars and gets great exchange power? I would think if someone knows. they wouldn't want to advertise it for additional competition.

I'm not expecting the investors out there to discuss their specific rental strategies (though some go into great detail about it). But they could promote the system in general. I think if an owner promotes their own resort, that would be a good thing. It would create higher demand for ownership which should make their timeshares more valuable. And as demand increases, the timeshare companies can continue to expand and add new resorts.
 

presley

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
6,313
Reaction score
1,121
Points
448
When I owned DVC, most owners were renting theirs out for $10./point. Those same people are now renting theirs out at $14. - $15./point. That's more than double their MFs. People who did math on all the various resorts have posted that SSR is the best location to buy in (resale, of course) and then use those points to rent out any of the other DVC properties.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
The secret to timeshare rentals has been shared here on tug numerous times, Its no secret: specialize. Become the go to guy for something, and I would add, make sure its a high demand, low supply something.
 
Last edited:

MichaelColey

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
112
Points
299
Location
Mansfield, TX
Resorts Owned
Palace View Branson (4 Lockouts), Grandview (Points), CMV (UDI), DVC (SSR 25)
The secret to timeshare rentals has been shared here on tug numerous times, Its no secret: specialize. Become the go to guy for something, and I would add, make sure its a high demand, low supply something.
I would argue that that's the secret to almost ANYTHING, not just timeshare rentals. The more specialized and the more of an expert you are, the better you'll do.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
...
As for me, I own Wyndham and Bluegreen and have tried renting both.

I find that in both systems, breaking even is the norm. With a lot of time and effort, you can turn a small profit. For the no hassle approach of hiring others, you will likely recoup less than your annual fees. This is why resale points for both systems are free or very cheap to acquire. ...

I don't think that resale pricing has anything to do with your adventure in attempting rentals, nor rental markets at all.
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,053
Reaction score
4,707
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
I disagree. If you can easily and regularly rent for much more than the MF's then the resale value would be higher. Properties that you can easily rent for less than MF's have negative resale value.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
I disagree. If you can easily and regularly rent for much more than the MF's then the resale value would be higher. Properties that you can easily rent for less than MF's have negative resale value.

Can't speak as to all point systems, but in plenty, mf goes by point regardless of location. Buying points has zero implication as to rentals at one or many in-network resorts, and no indicator as to season/demand. Only a reservation would have demand, not the untethered points. There is not a direct connection between a pot of points and demand/pricing for a specific unit week.
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,053
Reaction score
4,707
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
There is a correlation because reservations cost a certain number of points which in turn have a fee associated with it. Therefore a reservation somewhere in the system will cost points which in turn cost annual fees for the owner to make. In some systems in addition to the points there are other ancillary fees like housekeeping, reservation fees, guest certificate fees, etc that would also have to be added in to determine what the cost of that reservation cost.
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,699
Points
498
Location
Northeast USA
I disagree. If you can easily and regularly rent for much more than the MF's then the resale value would be higher. Properties that you can easily rent for less than MF's have negative resale value.

The true value in buying resale is WHERE to acquire the unit/week and then get the PRICE down to WHERE you can make a profit.

Yes, I specialize ... but NOT just by buying a HIGH DEMAND week. A great week next to the dumpster will NOT generate a happy camper ... and when they complain to the front desk, the staff will make sure to explain what a fixed week ownership is.

Yes, I had a tenant MOVED away from the unit I promised them ... but 1/3 of the resort suffered water damage .... called an ACT OF GOD ... lucky they were given the same size unit - but a slightly poorer view.
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
5,127
Reaction score
1,958
Points
348
Can't speak as to all point systems, but in plenty, mf goes by point regardless of location. Buying points has zero implication as to rentals at one or many in-network resorts, and no indicator as to season/demand. Only a reservation would have demand, not the untethered points. There is not a direct connection between a pot of points and demand/pricing for a specific unit week.

No matter how you pay MF on your points, I do think the perception of getting your money's worth out of the MF is intrinsic to the market value of the contract. Rental opportunity vs. MF is a very strong indicator of that intrinsic value. In other words, point systems where MF is significantly less than expected rental value will demand a higher price on the market than point systems where MF is higher than expected rental value.

And more than just that abstraction of value, these renters are going to bid up contracts they know will be profitable for them.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
No matter how you pay MF on your points, I do think the perception of getting your money's worth out of the MF is intrinsic to the market value of the contract. Rental opportunity vs. MF is a very strong indicator of that intrinsic value. In other words, point systems where MF is significantly less than expected rental value will demand a higher price on the market than point systems where MF is higher than expected rental value.

And more than just that abstraction of value, these renters are going to bid up contracts they know will be profitable for them.

This is assuming that all buyers plan to rent out vs own to use.

Besides, when Points Are Points, why would one 10000 contract be so much more valuable than another 10000 contract? Maybe my 10000 are 4th of July and yours are Christmas. Which would a buyer pay more for?
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
5,127
Reaction score
1,958
Points
348
This is assuming that all buyers plan to rent out vs own to use.

Besides, when Points Are Points, why would one 10000 contract be so much more valuable than another 10000 contract? Maybe my 10000 are 4th of July and yours are Christmas. Which would a buyer pay more for?

No, whether you plan to rent or not, rental rate is a strong indicator of the value you are getting out of the MFs you pay. That value is coded into the resale price, whether explicitly or implicitly.

Also, resale value is an aggregate of all market decisions with respect to that contract. So, even if you don't plan to rent, rental has an effect on your resale price.
 

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
Thanks for your responses but only noble and presley have actually answered the question with comments about DVC. One implying that it is barely worthwhile and the other implying that it can be quite profitable.

My obvious conclusion is the more you spend up front, the more you will make renting on an annual basis. Some of us want to break even in 3-4 years, others like me are happy to break even after a longer timeframe. I am calculating that with hard work, I can break even in about 6 years. But after that, I am hoping there will be less work and the rental income can be considered profit... like an investment property with no mortgage.

Here is another related question that has probably been discussed already. Which is better?
1. Specialize in the point system, or
2. Specialize in the location. For example, if that is Orlando, you could own through various point systems and offer 10+ resorts in Orlando. (Wyndham gives me about 4 options and Bluegreen gives me 2 more. I could offer more by buying more...)
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,929
Reaction score
9,460
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Thanks for your responses but only noble and presley have actually answered the question with comments about DVC.

My guess is that the people who are the most successful, are not going to post that info. - it's not in their best interest to help the competition.

Ron's advice is spot on.
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
5,127
Reaction score
1,958
Points
348
Thanks for your responses but only noble and presley have actually answered the question with comments about DVC. One implying that it is barely worthwhile and the other implying that it can be quite profitable.

My obvious conclusion is the more you spend up front, the more you will make renting on an annual basis. Some of us want to break even in 3-4 years, others like me are happy to break even after a longer timeframe. I am calculating that with hard work, I can break even in about 6 years. But after that, I am hoping there will be less work and the rental income can be considered profit... like an investment property with no mortgage.

Here is another related question that has probably been discussed already. Which is better?
1. Specialize in the point system, or
2. Specialize in the location. For example, if that is Orlando, you could own through various point systems and offer 10+ resorts in Orlando. (Wyndham gives me about 4 options and Bluegreen gives me 2 more. I could offer more by buying more...)

But you didn't ask exclusively about DVC :confused:
 

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
A comment about specializing

I want to share my view that specializing isn't really important with timeshares.

Although I have much less experience than most of you, my reply to detailed questions is usually the same: Please call the resort and ask them yourself. And the units are assigned at check-in. I try to avoid lengthy conversations about all the details... It is frustrating to engage in lots of back and forth and the person ends up booking elsewhere...

Whether I know a resort very well or I have never been there, I prefer guests to call the resort directly. Things change and I don't want to accidentally give them false or outdated information. Maybe this means I provide bad service? I hope not.

If by specializing, you mean that you need to be aware of market prices in the area, then I agree. If your price is too high, you won't get customers. If your price is too low, your profit margins are probably too low.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,929
Reaction score
9,460
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Whether I know a resort very well or I have never been there, I prefer guests to call the resort directly. Things change and I don't want to accidentally give them false or outdated information. Maybe this means I provide bad service? I hope not.

To be successful with renting timeshares, you have to provide better service, and a better product than the other guy.

If you say, "call the resort," the renter assumes you don't know, or don't care, and moves on to someone else...

If I don't know the answer I say, "Let me check on that and get right back to you." Then when I get the answer, and get back to them I say, The front desk said, blah, blah, blah, and you can confirm that info. by calling the front desk at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

The only exception to this is if they want a dispensation to break the rules:

Renter: "I know the unit only sleeps 4, but we have 2 toddlers and a newborn, is it OK to have 5 in this case?"

My response: The maximum occupancy is 4, and I don't have the authority to exceed that, so the best thing for you to do is to call the front desk directly and see what their policy is, because it will be their decision, not mine.
 
Last edited:

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
Denise,

I don't think my question is about helping the competition. It is about telling everyone that your point system is great. In my case, it is saying that Wyndham is pretty good (to use and to rent). So demand would increase, which would make my ownership more valuable.

I guess my real question is: are the other systems even better? This is hypothetical as I don't have any more time to deeply explore other options now. And it isn't as if I could easily divest and start again with another system.

It is like living in neighborhood X vs Y. You tell people to live in your neighborhood because it is better than the other one.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,929
Reaction score
9,460
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
I don't think my question is about helping the competition. It is about telling everyone that your point system is great.

I understand that this is your perspective, but someone who rents timeshares in volume, won't look at it this way, because of the competition for 1) prime reservations and 2) customers.

IMNSHO - If you don't have time to research it personally, you shouldn't even consider expanding for rental purposes.

No offense, but based on your comments about not liking the back and forth with renters, I don't think renting is you cup of tea, because that back and forth is the core of sales. When you are renting privately, in most cases, you cannot just put the product out there and say take it or leave it. You have to answer the renter's questions, and provide personal service, because you don't have an established commercial presence in the marketplace, that the renter is already comfortable with.
 
Last edited:

A.Win

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
433
Reaction score
170
Points
254
Location
Northern VA
Thanks for your messages Denise.

I guess asking this one question on TUGG can be considered the very beginning of an effort to research other systems more and to help others that have the same question. Unfortunately, I'm not getting much useful feedback on this specific question. Maybe when I retire in a few years, I would be willing to invest the time and money to learn another system.

I also wanted to clarify my comment about not answering questions. I do reply to valid questions such as bed types, size of unit, etc. But I try to avoid some silly questions like, how far is it from this? Will my kids like it? How much does it cost to do a, b, or c? Those things are not directly related to the room and should be researched separately IMO.

Also my rentals are in a lower price range. I know that yours are closer to $2,000. So maybe if I had bigger margins, I would be more interested in providing a higher level of service.
 
Top