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Where would we all be without the lying sand sucking sales folks at TS

hammerhammer

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If TS sales folks had to be honest how many units would be out there?

I am trying to see the good in them and figure if they did not get the ball rolling with suckers money maybe we would only have about 1/10 of the TS that are out there.

Your thoughts?
 

SueDonJ

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My thought is that it's not true that all timeshare salespeople are dishonest, and it's not true that everyone who buys direct is a sucker. No doubt the resale market is a good thing but sometimes, the only way to get a specific Week or Points usage is to buy direct.

Thank goodness TUG exists to help individuals figure out which purchase option might be best in any given situation. :)
 

taterhed

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Perhaps you remember the SATURN automobile sales pitch for the showroom: no-haggle. Of course, that's not why Saturn is no longer around. Lexus, Toyota and others have made excellent use of the 'no-haggle' strategy (which doesn't usually give you the lowest price!).

The reason we still have salesmen (and women) is down to two simple facts: Human behavior and (lack of) financing.

Anybody will finance a car for just about anybody. It's a fairly durable good and easy to repossess. Not-so-much with TS's.

TS's (and vaca's in general) are totally optional luxury goods. Humans need to be 'convinced' to buy the soft Corinthian leather (armchairs) and learn to appreciate the ego-boosting, hedonistic splendor that is Hawaii. More of a shove than a light push really. My experience with TS salespeoples has been ok. Not too much lying, not too much fabrication. Pretty good folks really. Of course, I don't hang around the Westgate playground....

So, sell-on you intrepid timeshare salespersons. Daddy needs new clients to keep the companies in the green!

IMHO with much sarcasm obviously.

PS. If nobody bought 'NEW' cars, how could I possibly buy my low-mileage, like-new, 'USED' car for $$$$$ less than new-car prices?

Of course, my last Subaru was purchased brand new.....:confused:
 
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raygo123

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My thought is that it's not true that all timeshare salespeople are dishonest, and it's not true that everyone who buys direct is a sucker. No doubt the resale market is a good thing but sometimes, the only way to get a specific Week or Points usage is to buy direct.

Thank goodness TUG exists to help individuals figure out which purchase option might be best in any given situation. :)
I totally disagree. TUG has no mercy for those that buy direct. Otherwise, when the everlasting parade of people wanting out, would be given the pros and cons of buying direct.

The first choice is to be told recind now, don't wait another minute. Rather than examining what they Bought, why, and what they can do with it.

Yes I understand that most who come to tug should have taken time, reasearched first, and above all can afford a timeshare. Most do not understand they are buying an interest in real estate, and all things promised MUST be in writing.

Yes, the majority should recind. But there is more to the answer than telling a person thy can buy the same thing for a dollar.

Has anyone ever suggested asking what their goals are for buying a timeshare?



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WinniWoman

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Our salesperson was lovely and honest and no pressure and we bought direct from Smuggs. We couldn't have bought resale because what we wanted was just being built and we wanted a certain building/unit/week.

We never regretted it as we paid cash and made all our money back-including maintenance fees- if you consider what renting there would have been over 16 years. This is what she presented to us and everything else she told us was true about the ownership there.

Some things have changed at the resort- some for the better and some for worse - that we couldn't have foreseen- but at least it is communicated to the owners.

The only thing that was iffy was the ability to sell it when the time comes and we will soon be crossing that bridge.
 
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ronparise

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If TS sales folks had to be honest how many units would be out there?

I am trying to see the good in them and figure if they did not get the ball rolling with suckers money maybe we would only have about 1/10 of the TS that are out there.

Your thoughts?

the reason they lie and cheat is the price that they are charging. of which 60% or so goes to marketing and commission

so, in the case of Wyndham: A typical example is the Reunion resort where a 3 bedroom condo generates roughly 12,000,000 credits to sell at 20 cents each or $2.4 million. The very same condo sells for about $200000 on the local real estate market.

another way to look at it is to consider the secondary market. 250000 points will cost you $50,000 from Wyndham, Last night I bought 279000 points for $750. on ebay..

So $200000 vs $2,400,000 or $750 vs $50,000 The only way a salesman can overcome those differences is to lie

So would the timeshare industry die without the lies.. I dont think so. just reduce the price, (and the marketing budget and take a little less profit) I think the industry could still grow.
 

DeniseM

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Has anyone ever suggested asking what their goals are for buying a timeshare?

I'm guessing, you have never visited the newbies forum, where this is the main topic of conversation and there is a questionnaire for this exact purpose.

However, the vast majority of the time, you cannot justify buying from the developer, especially with a newbie who bought on impulse, and almost always financed at a high interest rate.
 
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Saintsfanfl

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To be perfectly honest I likely wouldn't be a timeshare owner and this is probably true of other tuggers. The lying leads to a flood of cheap resale units. Call it parasitic or opportunistic. It is what it is.

Ignoring the surplus of units to be purchased cheaply a timeshare at full freight is still not a bad purchase for many people. The alternative of a second beachfront or mountain home is not possible financially for the majority of us. Another alternative of an expensive but tiny room at a high end resort is too small for many families.

A decent percentage of salesman deceive or twist the truth in just about every industry. I expect a salesperson to try and deceive me but it is refreshing to find an upfront and honest one. I put the burden on myself to verify the accuracy of the sales pitch.
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Innovation Sorely Needed To Break The Stale High-Pressure Timeshare Sales Model.

Your thoughts?
It is high time that the timeshare biz break out of the stale sales model of high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo -- although without that, I doubt that The Chief Of Staff & I would have considered taking the (resale) timeshare plunge.

In 2002 The Chief Of Staff bought a promotional travel package for $200 that included free lodging for a couple of nights each in Las Vegas, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, & Puerto Vallarta. The catch was that we had to take a timeshare sales presentation at each location.

The Orlando nights weren't really in Orlando -- more like Clermont. Accommodations were in a dinky motel near the corner of I-4 & Rt. 27. The timeshare tour was at Vacation Village At Parkway, Kissimmee FL -- not exactly Orlando, but close enough.

We were wowed by the niceness of the timeshare resort, but turned off bigtime by the high pressure & the high price. After the tour, driving back to our dinky motel, we spied a roadside billboard that said . . .

TIMESHARES -- BUY RESALE
SAVE THOUSANDS

. . . & the rest is history.

As it happens, the only timeshare we own is at Vacation Village At Parkway -- a triennial point unit we bought via eBay 2-3 years ago. Before that, we owned a few other timeshare units at other resorts which we enjoyed, either to use or for RCI exchanges. That's all in the past now, & all but our triennial points unit have been sold, given away, or abandoned.

To transcend the all the high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo, some innovative timeshare company out there somewhere needs to come up with a business model more like Walmart for developer sales & more like Car-Max for resales. (I'm not holding my breath waiting for anything like that to happen.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

taterhed

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I totally disagree. TUG has no mercy for those that buy direct. Otherwise, when the everlasting parade of people wanting out, would be given the pros and cons of buying direct.

The first choice is to be told recind now, don't wait another minute. Rather than examining what they Bought, why, and what they can do with it.

Yes I understand that most who come to tug should have taken time, reasearched first, and above all can afford a timeshare. Most do not understand they are buying an interest in real estate, and all things promised MUST be in writing.

Yes, the majority should recind. But there is more to the answer than telling a person thy can buy the same thing for a dollar.

Has anyone ever suggested asking what their goals are for buying a timeshare?



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Ha. Ok, I'll bite.

Read the 'New to timesharing...' posts a bit more carefully. You'll see that the "rescind now!" statements typically address those buyers that finance timeshares at full retail price or simply pay too much (or over-buy on points etc...). If you look closer, you'll commonly see the suggestion 'rescind now--the deal will still be there next week if you change your mind' or similar. Please tell me you don't believe that there are lots of 'once in a lifetime' timeshare deals being brokered everyday.... I advocate Marriott buyers to consider the hybrid packages (if they are still there?). While not a classic 'developer' purchase, it is thru mother Marriott.

Also, as Denise pointed out; the "What to Buy" Questions for Newbies in that thread clearly asks the potential buyer what their vacation needs (goals) are. That's my first suggestion right after the 'rescind now' comment. Why? Because such a big decision should NOT be made on a timeline, on vacation or with a dangling 'sword of Damocles' contract over your head(s). I think that should answer your question.

Finally, when people ask 'what now?' after rescission time is over, many Tuggers (including me) extol the virtues of 'learn how to use and enjoy your timeshare.' In fact, I often wish I HAD bought the developer purchase years ago: it would have forced me to spend more quality time with my family on vacation. Yes, I would have been 'liberated from a great deal of interest payments (yikes) but that does not to begin to compare with the cost of lost family time. I can make more money, but my kids are grown and that particular resource (family time with young kids) is now an extinct commodity. Maybe with grandkids? :eek:

To the OP: if in doubt, rescind now. The deal WILL be available (or maybe better?) if you change your mind. Since this isn't your first trip around the block, I'll simply ask: what are your goals? If you're unclear about how this trade/purchase gets you where you want to be, then you shouldn't complete the deal until you're sure what you want.

cheers, and happy timesharing.
 

hammerhammer

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Rob i am looking at getting a TS for a dollar so no big deal, my worry is the way out.

I would enjoy one example of where it is a wise decision to purchase from the developer.

And for the car analogy, please post up what car you buy today and can hardly give it away tomorrow?
 

dsmrp

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...
The reason we still have salesmen (and women) is down to two simple facts: Human behavior and (lack of) financing.

Anybody will finance a car for just about anybody. It's a fairly durable good and easy to repossess. Not-so-much with TS's.

TS's (and vaca's in general) are totally optional luxury goods. Humans need to be 'convinced' to buy the soft Corinthian leather (armchairs) and learn to appreciate the ego-boosting, hedonistic splendor that is Hawaii. More of a shove than a light push really. My experience with TS salespeoples has been ok. Not too much lying, not too much fabrication. Pretty good folks really. Of course, I don't hang around the Westgate playground....
...

PS. If nobody bought 'NEW' cars, how could I possibly buy my low-mileage, like-new, 'USED' car for $$$$$ less than new-car prices?

Of course, my last Subaru was purchased brand new.....:confused:

the reason they lie and cheat is the price that they are charging. of which 60% or so goes to marketing and commission
...
another way to look at it is to consider the secondary market. 250000 points will cost you $50,000 from Wyndham, Last night I bought 279000 points for $750. on ebay..

So $200000 vs $2,400,000 or $750 vs $50,000 The only way a salesman can overcome those differences is to lie

So would the timeshare industry die without the lies.. I dont think so. just reduce the price, (and the marketing budget and take a little less profit) I think the industry could still grow.

Agree, the things we care about and value most will involve an emotional response on what we purchase and how much we're willing to spend.

Interesting comparison between timeshares and cars. I was thinking the same about a few of their similarities a few days ago, when researching for car purchase. Cars and timeshares are roughly in the same $ price range. I don't have data to back this up, but I feel people are more likely to buy a new car than an used one (if they have the money) because they're much more sure of what they're getting than with a used car. Perhaps some people buy from developer for similar reasons, or they aren't as knowledgeable about buying process because it is considered a kind of 'real' estate. Also almost everyone's aware of the used car market; there's much less visibility of a secondary timeshare market.

IMO, easier to sell if you have a good product at a reasonable price.
A good product at inflated price, harder to sell.
A mediocre to average product at an inflated price; hardest to sell

I totally disagree. TUG has no mercy for those that buy direct. Otherwise, when the everlasting parade of people wanting out, would be given the pros and cons of buying direct.

The first choice is to be told recind now, don't wait another minute. Rather than examining what they Bought, why, and what they can do with it.
...

Yes agree, I've seen/sensed the "thumbs down" on direct buys in several threads. Hindsight is always 20/20 ;)

To be fair, I think some of the urgency and seemingly harshness in the responses comes from the short recission periods, and the elapsed time from purchase to buyer finding TUG. More importantly because unlike cars there's no easy way out of a TS, and the depreciation is HUGE.
 
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Saintsfanfl

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Rob i am looking at getting a TS for a dollar so no big deal, my worry is the way out.

I would enjoy one example of where it is a wise decision to purchase from the developer.

And for the car analogy, please post up what car you buy today and can hardly give it away tomorrow?

A timeshare for a dollar is many times a mistake for the reason you worry. So many people drop by on TUG looking to pay no more than $1 but they either don't care about the other variables or they are not aware they exist.

For example:

A willing buyer of a timeshare will pay no more than $1 all in for a unit that has a $700 and rising maintenance fee that would be tough to ever rent out for the same $700.

This same buyer is unwilling to pay $500 for a unit with a $500 maintenance that can easily be rented for $700 or more and easily resold for at least $500.

Only buy units of value. If you get lucky and get one for $1 that's great but most $1 all-in units are a ripoff because they are worth less than zero.
 

TUGBrian

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Im always amused when folks think TUG is anti-retail no matter what.

what TUG is is anti uneducated decision...and nothing more.

however when you are dealing with a situation that only has a limited number of days (and in many cases hours) before someone is going to be stuck with a terribly expensive purchase based on an uneducated decision...urgency and bluntness is not only acceptable...its in many cases required to counteract the rainbow and sunshine sold by the resort itself during the sales presentation.

I will make the claim that the vast majority of folks who attend presentations are not prepared with the information they need to make an educated decision of such financial magnitude....and those that are dont come on TUG afterwards asking for advice to see if they got a good deal or not!
 
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taterhed

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Rob i am looking at getting a TS for a dollar so no big deal, my worry is the way out.

I would enjoy one example of where it is a wise decision to purchase from the developer.

And for the car analogy, please post up what car you buy today and can hardly give it away tomorrow?

I clearly see your point.

My car analogy was to point out: if nobody bought new cars, their wouldn't be any used cars to buy. So, somebody has to buy the new resorts, the developer 'points' conversions etc.... or there wouldn't be a resale market as we know it. Either that or completely tear-down and revamp the entire sales model. I hope they don't do that in the near future, or I'm sunk.

I think that Marriott points (for one example) is an area where developer vs resale purchase should be closely examined. Buying points from the developer gives you certain options (bundle, requalification etc...) at a reasonable price. SVN requals are another example. Plus, buying one unit direct may qualify the owner for network benefits on all other (resale) units in some systems. Or, as with some network systems (DRI? Wyndham?) the resale units may have drastically different network benefits. (bad examples I'm sure) The key is deciding how much that benefit is worth to you. Example: Marriott DVC resale points come at a 30-40% premium depending.... Maybe HGVC points would provide the same benefits at lower cost (vs resale or total)? Just a quick example.

Personally, I wanted a minimum points account so that I could rent DVC points as needed. With a super-tiny bundle (EOY maybe?) that might have been possible. Otherwise, the 1500 points min re-enrollment fee is too high for me--both in points cost and MF's. Didn't pursue it. Just bought legacy and hoped that reenrollment might happen. It did--just way too rich for my blood and needs.

cheers.
 

taterhed

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Im always amused when folks think TUG is anti-retail no matter what.

what TUG is is anti uneducated decision...and nothing more.

however when you are dealing with a situation that only has a limited number of days (and in many cases hours) before someone is going to be stuck with a terribly expensive purchase based on an uneducated decision...urgency and bluntness is not only acceptable...its in many cases required to counteract the rainbow and sunshine sold by the resort itself during the sales presentation.

I will make the claim that the vast majority of folks who attend presentations are not prepared with the information they need to make an educated decision of such financial magnitude....and those that are dont come on TUG afterwards asking for advice to see if they got a good deal or not!


Wow. "... rainbow and sunshine ..." that's a priceless description.

You, my friend, should be a diplomat! I might have used slightly, er, stronger words. :hysterical:
 

raygo123

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Rob i am looking at getting a TS for a dollar so no big deal, my worry is the way out.

I would enjoy one example of where it is a wise decision to purchase from the developer.

And for the car analogy, please post up what car you buy today and can hardly give it away tomorrow?
Volkswagen diesel

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ekajun1957

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Yes education to me is the key. You need to know that if you buy from the developer it is for a good educated reason that fits with your plans and financial situation and usually the person who goes to a presentation while on vacation is not educated in what is being presented to them so as they often say on here is rescind, you can almost always get the same deal later if that is what you want. I am not embarrassed as I first felt on TUG to admit I bought from the developer. I bought pre-opening on one and because I owned there got two or three Thanksgivings in 4BR Presidential when there were only two of them total, I never would have got to experience this with my family otherwise. Second one also was right when first sold and it was to make sure I had ownership so I can get it every Mardi Gras and didn't want to wait until it started showing up on resale years later.
But at this point there are few times with the flood of timeshares something truly unique shows up and is worth the money developers want. I am also Platinum and use the perks to my advantage often to generate income.
So I first thought Tuggers were just blatantly anti-developer, they are not, they are just educated in timesharing and trying to educate others.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
The Flip Side.

Wow. "... rainbow and sunshine ..." that's a priceless description.

You, my friend, should be a diplomat! I might have used slightly, er, stronger words.
I can't escape the suspicion that rainbows & sunshine are the flip side of another set of favorite timeshare seller emotions that my friend timeos2, the late John Chase, referred to as F.U.D. -- fear, uncertainty, & doubt.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

Rjbeach2003

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I have been in sales for 36 years, and have mostly sold things people don't have to have. Art and souvenir products. My first timeshare experience was in Reno in the late 70's. Subsequently I went to a number of others and finally purchased in Hawaii. Looking back on those and reflecting on more recent presentations, the salespeople sell hard or soft depending on the quality of the product.

That first presentation in Reno was the worst because they had a bad product, and kept moving us from one person to another, each one harder. Kind of reminds me of the movie "Glengarry, Glen Ross".

We finally purchased when we had the cash, and frankly I am glad we did, even though the initial price is highly inflated. It got us back to Hawaii, opened the door to getting more points as a gift from a friend.
 

ekajun1957

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I can't escape the suspicion that rainbows & sunshine are the flip side of another set of favorite timeshare seller emotions that my friend timeos2, the late John Chase, referred to as F.U.D. -- fear, uncertainty, & doubt.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

But back to original post I still also wonder how much TS units would there be if not for the "rainbows & sunshine" and F.U.D. methods of the salesman?
 

taterhed

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But back to original post I still also wonder how much TS units would there be if not for the "rainbows & sunshine" and F.U.D. methods of the salesman?

Frankly, I think the entire hotel-based timeshare systems (larger TS's) only exist in their present form due to the large corporate earnings and/or margins. Without the margins/earnings, I think the whole thing would become dingy and dull pretty quickly. I think the industry would devolve to smaller 'local' timeshare systems with independent HOA's. Hotels and resorts need $$$$ to keep shiny and attractive.

IMHO
 

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The first choice is to be told recind now, don't wait another minute.

Not quite---at least, not from the Elder Voices. Usually, the advice is instead something like this:

If you have any questions at all, rescind. Then, do your homework. If you later decide that this purchase is the right purchase for you, call the sales office back, and ask them to write exactly the same deal, because you are ready to buy. They will write it. But, also look to see if the resale market can serve your needs, because if it can it will be much chepaer.​

The reason this advice makes sense is that you have to have your questions answered to your satisfaction before the rescind period expires. After that, it is too late, even if you later discover this wasn't the right purchase for you.

Now, 9 times out of 10, the resale market would be better. But, every once in a while, you see someone for whom retail is the right choice. For example, I recall one potential purchaser---probably on DISboards---who wanted a week in a studio at Disney's Grand Floridian every December. That's quite possibly the hardest reservation to get in Orlando, and buying the fixed week option (at a premium over retail points, no less) was the right thing for that person. Fixed weeks are not likely to come on the market often, and even points owners at VGF have a hard time getting that reservation at 8AM 11 months out.
 

raygo123

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I will buy every 2015-16 VW diesel for a hundred bucks you can find me :) all in fun
Lol I own a passat. Dealers have them, but can't sell them. They are all tied up in litigations. Mine is gas not diesel, so it will cost you more than a hundred

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