When does it make sense to buy vs continue renting on RedWeek?

[nemoid]

Hey all! I thought I would have found a ton of answers by searching, but I didn't so I hope I didn't miss anything.

My wife and I recently stayed at Newport Coast Villas and since this was our 3rd time there (7th overall MVC stay), we decided to do the owners presentation to get info and the numbers they presented us were absolutely laughable (but we knew that going in). I know we can buy a timeshare or points here/redweek/ebay at a steeeep discount, but quite frankly, I am not seeing the benefit vs continuing to rent via redweek. I wanted to see what the experts say.

We don't have a set time of year we want to travel, and always check redweek for good deals and if we can make a trip work, we will. We have recently done Aruba (2017, 2019), Myrtle Beach (2021, 2023), and Newport Beach (2019, 2022, and 2024). We have always enjoyed each of our times at the MVC, but just don't see how it makes financial sense to buy vs continuing to rent on redweek.

I assume since we travel randomly it would make sense to go with the points option if anything. The sales guy also told us Marriott was going to prohibit owners from renting on redweek starting January 1 2025 - we assume that is BS.

Am I missing something here? At what point does it make sense to buy? Do we just keep renting on redweek?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered!

 

[DanCali]

Your BS meter works just fine

With (resale) weeks ownership your exchange options will be limited to II so, unless you are buying a 2BR lockoff to trade, I would only buy a resale week at a place where I visit regularly. You are allowed to think of the upfront cost for a resale week as an "investment" in the sense that you're paying "fair market value" and even if you decide after 5, 10, or 15 years to cash out there will possibly be some residual value when you sell. In most cases it will depreciate some, in extreme cases the value will go to zero, and in other extreme cases you will get appreciation (as some Disney owners experienced).

As an example, we bought at NCV about 15 years ago and paid $10K for a Platinum resale week. The value of that resale week today is still in that general range, maybe $8K-$9K (even though the annual dues more than doubled). In the meantime, I had all that time to enjoy that ownership and pay annual MFs much lower than the rental cost.

I think going forward, the advantages of owning will be fewer given that the rental cost increases (in percent) have not kept up with the MF increases. But for certain travel habits it makes sense to buy and if it doesn't work out you typically don't lose too much when you sell later.

You are correct that points are more flexible, but (i) even if you buy resale you do lose 50%+ of the upfront cost when you sell because of the $3/pt "junk fee" and (ii) the annual dues of ~$0.80/pt are (very) high. Take a look at the cost to book the weeks you rented and see if it's worth it. Since we travel in peak seasons, point MFs are way too costly for my taste.

 

[rickandcindy23]

@DanCali that is an excellent, well thought-out post.

 

[davidvel]

Hey all! I thought I would have found a ton of answers by searching, but I didn't so I hope I didn't miss anything.

My wife and I recently stayed at Newport Coast Villas and since this was our 3rd time there (7th overall MVC stay), we decided to do the owners presentation to get info and the numbers they presented us were absolutely laughable (but we knew that going in). I know we can buy a timeshare or points here/redweek/ebay at a steeeep discount, but quite frankly, I am not seeing the benefit vs continuing to rent via redweek. I wanted to see what the experts say.

We don't have a set time of year we want to travel, and always check redweek for good deals and if we can make a trip work, we will. We have recently done Aruba (2017, 2019), Myrtle Beach (2021, 2023), and Newport Beach (2019, 2022, and 2024). We have always enjoyed each of our times at the MVC, but just don't see how it makes financial sense to buy vs continuing to rent on redweek.

I assume since we travel randomly it would make sense to go with the points option if anything. The sales guy also told us Marriott was going to prohibit owners from renting on redweek starting January 1 2025 - we assume that is BS.

Am I missing something here? At what point does it make sense to buy? Do we just keep renting on redweek?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered!

Your post is too vague for you or anyone else to do a reasonable cost comparison. You should make a chart. Put those 7 rentals you did and add the rental price, season/week, view, & size.

For a week purchase, look at the MF for that week and compare. If they are close, stop and keep renting. If the rental cost is a bit more, see what it would cost to buy the week and divide by 20 years. Add that amount to the MF, and then compare again.

For points, look at the points needed to reserve the week and multiply by 1.115, which is (MF on the points) + points times .3 ($6 acquisition/20 years). Formula: (PTS*.815)+(PTS*.3)=PTS*1.15 Compare this amount to the rental cost. If they are close, stop and keep renting.

Hopefully my math is right. But I'm sure I'll find out if not.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Hey all! I thought I would have found a ton of answers by searching, but I didn't so I hope I didn't miss anything.

My wife and I recently stayed at Newport Coast Villas and since this was our 3rd time there (7th overall MVC stay), we decided to do the owners presentation to get info and the numbers they presented us were absolutely laughable (but we knew that going in). I know we can buy a timeshare or points here/redweek/ebay at a steeeep discount, but quite frankly, I am not seeing the benefit vs continuing to rent via redweek. I wanted to see what the experts say.

We don't have a set time of year we want to travel, and always check redweek for good deals and if we can make a trip work, we will. We have recently done Aruba (2017, 2019), Myrtle Beach (2021, 2023), and Newport Beach (2019, 2022, and 2024). We have always enjoyed each of our times at the MVC, but just don't see how it makes financial sense to buy vs continuing to rent on redweek.

I assume since we travel randomly it would make sense to go with the points option if anything. The sales guy also told us Marriott was going to prohibit owners from renting on redweek starting January 1 2025 - we assume that is BS.

Am I missing something here? At what point does it make sense to buy? Do we just keep renting on redweek?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered!

As an owner you will have the most success if you can plan 12-13 months in advance if you have specific trip (location and date) in mind.
You can also have success if you are very flexible- just searching around and when something comes up you are interested in just jump on it.
TS ownership is not like booking a hotel or booking on redweek- the units are not just sitting there waiting for you. For weeks an owner must decide not to stay their ownership and deposit their unit into II or MVC must deposit excess units.Its best to have an II request in 12-13 months in advance.
Points owners often book exactly at the 12 or 13 month release date and inventory can be spotty after that.

Read all of the pink areas in this forum, run your numbers as suggested (include exchange fees) and think too about how often you will travel and what locations. Deposited weeks are good for 2 years, points must be used in their use year or banked one year forward so expiration is also something to consider.

 

[vacationtime1]

If it's not broken, don't fix it. Renting is working for OP; why change?

True, OP might save a couple hundred dollars by paying MF's rather than paying rent, but the non-economic costs -- the necessity of advance planning, the lack of flexibility, the sometimes millstone of ownership etc. -- are real. OP "just don't see how it makes financial sense to buy vs continuing to rent on redweek", and given OP's use pattern, I agree.

 

[jp10558]

For the OP specific situation - I have to agree, if you want to go to MVC locations, and find the rent on redweek compelling price wise - keep doing that.

In the more general sense - I am going to Vegas with HGVC at the Flamingo for a week tomorrow. I just hit up redweek, and while I can't see that exact date, all of the listings for a 2BR unit were $400 a night (many for 3 or 4 nights, not a whole week). My MF + Club dues costs for the week worked out to $169 a night, and I don't have the cheapest MFs. That's significant - to me anyway. And that's near the top of what I'm paying - the only one I've paid more for is La Belle Mason in New Orleans, which Redweek doesn't have a 2BR listed for, but for that it ran $374 a night for the week. (Ugg, thanks for making me do that math, I was kind of just pretending it was "included").

So - my recommendation is - if you're travelling at least 2 weeks a year, and can point stretch, use RCI Extra Vacations or II Getaways judiciously etc... it will make a lot of sense. But maybe not in MVC.

 

[rickandcindy23]

@jp10558 RCI doesn't have Marriott. RCI is not a good option for anyone who wants a more upscale experience. Marriott is worthy of the maintenance fees.

If I had a clean slate to work with and loved Aruba, Newport Coast and Myrtle Beach, I would buy those specific resales and use the weeks. Rent the years I couldn't use for some $ over MF's. When I am done staying in those resorts, I would sell. No real money lost, most likely.

 

[jp10558]

@jp10558 Marriott is worthy of the maintenance fees.

Not if you can rent it for close enough to the MFs like the OP said.

 

[nemoid]

Your BS meter works just fine

With (resale) weeks ownership your exchange options will be limited to II so, unless you are buying a 2BR lockoff to trade, I would only buy a resale week at a place where I visit regularly. You are allowed to think of the upfront cost for a resale week as an "investment" in the sense that you're paying "fair market value" and even if you decide after 5, 10, or 15 years to cash out there will possibly be some residual value when you sell. In most cases it will depreciate some, in extreme cases the value will go to zero, and in other extreme cases you will get appreciation (as some Disney owners experienced).

As an example, we bought at NCV about 15 years ago and paid $10K for a Platinum resale week. The value of that resale week today is still in that general range, maybe $8K-$9K (even though the annual dues more than doubled). In the meantime, I had all that time to enjoy that ownership and pay annual MFs much lower than the rental cost.

I think going forward, the advantages of owning will be fewer given that the rental cost increases (in percent) have not kept up with the MF increases. But for certain travel habits it makes sense to buy and if it doesn't work out you typically don't lose too much when you sell later.

You are correct that points are more flexible, but (i) even if you buy resale you do lose 50%+ of the upfront cost when you sell because of the $3/pt "junk fee" and (ii) the annual dues of ~$0.80/pt are (very) high. Take a look at the cost to book the weeks you rented and see if it's worth it. Since we travel in peak seasons, point MFs are way too costly for my taste.

Appreciate the detailed response. When we did the owners presentation - it was only about points, not weeks, so I have a couple of questions on resale weeks:

1. They're treated as a typical timeshare, correct? i.e.: You can only visit the same resort the same week each year?
2. I see you mentioned Platinum resale week - I assume that is higher demand weeks? Where can I read more about the different weeks?
3. Are the maintenance fees (MF?) a similar cost to the points? We were quoted $0.78/point which worked out to ~$3,120/year.
4. Assuming you can rent out resale weeks on redweek?

 

[nemoid]

If it's not broken, don't fix it. Renting is working for OP; why change?

True, OP might save a couple hundred dollars by paying MF's rather than paying rent, but the non-economic costs -- the necessity of advance planning, the lack of flexibility, the sometimes millstone of ownership etc. -- are real. OP "just don't see how it makes financial sense to buy vs continuing to rent on redweek", and given OP's use pattern, I agree.

That's why I'm posting I can definitely see the pro/cons of continuing to rent vs pro/cons of buying. Want to do my due diligence to see what makes the most sense for my wife and I (+3 kids).

 

[nemoid]

Not sure why I can't edit posts here - but just realized one of the pinned (pink) threads has MF information! Thanks!

 

[pharmgirl]

We have been either using or renting our 2 Marriott KoOLina 2 Brs. This year we're noticing it takes much longer to rent and had to reduce price significantly. For on e we listed and it rented but at same price as maintenance fee so no profit.
I've had both of these plus an EOY Westin Kaanapali listed for resale but no offers. So I'm reducing the Marriott KoOLina from $18000 doen to $12000. Any thoughts? still too high??

 

[rickandcindy23]

We have been either using or renting our 2 Marriott KoOLina 2 Brs. This year we're noticing it takes much longer to rent and had to reduce price significantly. For on e we listed and it rented but at same price as maintenance fee so no profit.
I've had both of these plus an EOY Westin Kaanapali listed for resale but no offers. So I'm reducing the Marriott KoOLina from $18000 doen to $12000. Any thoughts? still too high??

Depends on view, I think, for anyone to help with resale value.

Big issues with rentals lately, at least for me. Our daughter usually rents our Myrtle Beach weeks, no problem, except during Covid, and this year, she rented half. That is a lot of deposits I have to make to II.

 

[DRH90277]

I suggest you think about how you would use timeshare. We have bought several Newport Coast weeks over the years for the use of our family. After overpaying Marriott, we later bought only resale weeks at bargain prices - Platinum weeks at $9,000. So, I suggest you buy but only if you will use the weeks frequently, want to rent them out, or trade through Interval. These are all easy and great uses. Also, Newport Platinum weeks trade very well with Interval.

The problem with Newport is the Platinum season is long from early June to the last week of the year. Chances are you, like most owners, will want the summer weeks so you will be competing with lots of people for those weeks. The good news, however, is that the resort is very large with lots of available weeks. You will need to stay on top of getting your reservations booked early and be flexible.

For financial types like me, you might consider that with good planning, you can rent for $400 to $500 per night or take the alternative plan to buy at $9,000 and pay $2,000 in annual maintenance fees and property taxes. Owners are not making much on their rentals and neither will you. Remember the flexibility you get with renting - lots of available weeks, no annual commitment to use, and no upfront purchase with forever maintenance fees.

Now the most sobering thought - don't buy the points as you would need about 4,500 points for a week stay in the summer - that's near an $80,000 points purchase plus very high annual maintenance fees - Please, please kill that idea quickly.

Best wishes in making this decision and don't let the sales guys overwhelm you with their baloney including misinformation.

 

[m61376]

I think the deciding factor is how much more than MF's are you renting for? For example, I know Aruba weeks rentals have really increased, and I understand some of the other properties have as well. Obviously prime weeks rent for more. If your rental's are under MF's plus $1000 then there is a convenience factor to renting.

However, I'll offer a flip consideration- at this point, when we travel over the winter it's not with family, since the kids are grown and grandkids are in school. So I often lock off. My~ 2200 MF's gets me a 1BR OS unit inAruba (our happy place ) during the cold winter and I trade the studio side in II, and I've gotten a second week in 1 or 2 BR Marriott or Westin units in Maui, Maui, Oahu, Cancun, Phoenix, Hilton Head, and NCV, either in prime season or shoulder season. So while I could rent a 1 BR winter week in Aruba for the 3K area, I wouldn't enjoy that extra essentially free week (just the cost of upgrades really, since I enrolled my week so the trades are free). Just the value the II trades I've gotten, even assuming I rented on Redweek or the like and not on Marriott.com, more than exceeds my resale purchase cost. So financially owning for us has worked out much better. Or I could rent the studio side and cover most of the MFs.

Also there are intangibles of owning- and they can be a plus or minus depending on your personality. It can be a pain to have to reserve and plan a year in advance. But it can be a bonus that it forces you to travel since you've spent the money already. And free accommodations ease the decision of whether to spend the money on another trip. It also is really nice to be able to invite family or friends and offer free accommodations when you've managed to nab a 2BR trade for $118 unit size upgrade in II (I have Platinum membership).

It also comes down to what stage of life you're in and how you like to travel. Few would argue that a timeshare villa isn't a lot more convenient with kids. Personally, even with kids grown, I like the convenience of a kitchen and the W/D is a nice amenity. Others prefer a fancy hotel and like to eat out every meal. That's not our preference, and we don't feel this way, but some feel a week in a timeshare, even the higher end ones, is a step or two down from their preferred travel.

Anyway, I think hearing a few different perspective will help you decide what's best for you. Welcome to Tug!

 

[davidvel]

We have been either using or renting our 2 Marriott KoOLina 2 Brs. This year we're noticing it takes much longer to rent and had to reduce price significantly. For on e we listed and it rented but at same price as maintenance fee so no profit.
I've had both of these plus an EOY Westin Kaanapali listed for resale but no offers. So I'm reducing the Marriott KoOLina from $18000 doen to $12000. Any thoughts? still too high??

Ko Olina EOY Oceanview 2Brs are consistently listed on Redweek for about $5,000. None are over 10K (Ok, maybe one absurd one.) Many annual usage units are under $13K.

 

[DanCali]

Appreciate the detailed response. When we did the owners presentation - it was only about points, not weeks, so I have a couple of questions on resale weeks:

1. They're treated as a typical timeshare, correct? i.e.: You can only visit the same resort the same week each year?
2. I see you mentioned Platinum resale week - I assume that is higher demand weeks? Where can I read more about the different weeks?
3. Are the maintenance fees (MF?) a similar cost to the points? We were quoted $0.78/point which worked out to ~$3,120/year.
4. Assuming you can rent out resale weeks on redweek?

1) With Marriott most of the resorts the ownership is "floating" (there are a few exceptions where the weeks are fixed, like Westin St. John Virgin Grand phase). You buy a week in a particular season and with that floating ownership you can book any week in the "season" that you own. Platinum, Gold, and Silver are "seasons". The resale price will depends on the season you buy in. Reservations can be made 12 months in advance but if you own multiple weeks you can reserve 13 months in advance (not all inventory opens up at 13 months). All deeded weeks can trade via Interval.

For example, Newport Coast has a Platinum season from weeks 23-51 excluding week 26 (4th of July). As you can imagine, there is a lot of competition from Platinum owners to book the 6-7 peak summer weeks, while other weeks in the Platinum season are a lot easier to book. Week 26 and 52 are "Platinum Plus" event/fixed week which can be purchased as such but they can also "float" in the other Platinum weeks.

2) If you search for "marriott vacation club weeks calendar" you will find some sites that have similar calendars for all resorts. For Westin/Sheraton you can search for "vistana staroptions chart"

3) The maintenance fees depend on the unit you buy. All 2BR units at Newport coast have the same maintenance fees, regardless of the season. In some places, the taxes may differ a tiny bit based on the season so there may be a small difference in the MFs of a 2BR Platinum and 2BR Gold due to taxes (in CA taxes are based on the purchase price, which is correlated with the season you own, and billed separately).

4) Yes, you can rent out a resale week. It's deeded ownership.

One other thing to add - there are a handful of Vistana (Westin/Sheraton) resorts referred to as "mandatory" where resale weeks can trade internally within all the 20-25 Vistana resorts using the "Staroptions" currency (similar to MVC points). So, as an example, you can buy a 2BR at Westin Kierland in Scottsdale and trade into a 2BR in Hawaii and the maintenance fees would be much lower. Of you can buy in Hawaii but also go to Atlantis and St. John using Staroptions. But when you trade internally you're limited to availability at 8 months out while owners can book at 12 months out. You can find out more info on this aspect in the Vistana forum in the FAQs.

Vistana (formerly Starwood) FAQ - if you are new to Timesharing or Vistana start here!

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[nemoid]

@DanCali thank you so much! Really helpful information. I appreciate the detailed responses

One last question. Hypothetically if we were to buy a Platinum week at NCV - am I allowed to book a Gold week?

 

[dioxide45]

@DanCali thank you so much! Really helpful information. I appreciate the detailed responses

One last question. Hypothetically if we were to buy a Platinum week at NCV - am I allowed to book a Gold week?

You can only reserve the season that you own. If you want to travel outside that season, you would need to exchnage through Interval International.

 

[DanCali]

@DanCali thank you so much! Really helpful information. I appreciate the detailed responses

One last question. Hypothetically if we were to buy a Platinum week at NCV - am I allowed to book a Gold week?

No, you cannot book weeks outside your season. That would require an exchange system you are eligible to trade through (like Interval or Abound).

The possible exception to that, if you want to think of it as such, are the Platinum+ weeks (week 26 and week 52) which are technically a separate "seasons" comprised of a single week but can also float in the "regular" Platinum weeks at NCV.

 

[shirl_acs]

Hi @nemoid ! I'm also looking at NCV weeks and learning as much as I can on the board about Marriott timeshares. I'm still trying to find out which brokers are recommended to go with for a Marriott resale purchase -- any broker surface as recommended on your research?

For the Marriott veterans here, appreciate if you can chime in which brokers or sites you think are best to start the search for Marriott weeks to purchase. Thank you all!

 

[rickandcindy23]

I recommend sellingtimeshares.net. Seth Nock owns that company and has several agents to help you. Seth is a TUG member.

Also, advantagevacation.com is highly recommended on TUG. I bought two Westin weeks through Syed Sarmad on that site. Syed is well known on TUG.

Stay away from companies like Sell My Timeshare Now.

TUG has ads you can peruse as well.

You can always try Redweek. Redweek's closing costs are outrageous. $1,250 + all of the resort transfer fees, etc. But you don't have to choose a listing that is a Redweek verified/ protected listing. Choose one that either has reasonable closing costs or will allow you to choose your own closing company.

What you want is a closing that is reasonably priced. To me, the only closing company that is worth the price is Legal Timeshare Transfers, readylegal@gmail.com They have a website and are located in Cornelia, GA, if you do a search on the net, you will have a tough time distinguishing them from some other sites because the name will pull up some scam companies. These are TUG members.

 

[Red elephant]

I recommend sellingtimeshares.net. Seth Nock owns that company and has several agents to help you. Seth is a TUG member.

Also, advantagevacation.com is highly recommended on TUG. I bought two Westin weeks through Syed Sarmad on that site. Syed is well known on TUG.

Stay away from companies like Sell My Timeshare Now.

TUG has ads you can peruse as well.

You can always try Redweek. Redweek's closing costs are outrageous. $1,250 + all of the resort transfer fees, etc. But you don't have to choose a listing that is a Redweek verified/ protected listing. Choose one that either has reasonable closing costs or will allow you to choose your own closing company.

What you want is a closing that is reasonably priced. To me, the only closing company that is worth the price is Legal Timeshare Transfers, readylegal@gmail.com They have a website and are located in Cornelia, GA, if you do a search on the net, you will have a tough time distinguishing them from some other sites because the name will pull up some scam companies. These are TUG members.

You can choose your on closing company even if it’s verified and protected. I always choose LT transfers ever since the fiasco I experienced with Redweeks closing company.