What value is a brand in the hospitality industry

[gravityrules]

I'm posting this in the Wyndham forum because my recent experiences, both with timeshares and hotels have been with Wyndham. I realize these are 2 separate entities and that this question applies to other timeshare/ hotel brands as well.

I know some of you are marketing savvy; could you explain what value branding provides to the customer?

My first impression was that branding would provide consistency, somewhat like you know what to expect from a McDonald's store. But that isn't my experience with Wyndham. My experiences have been fine so far but only because I'm putting in the time to check reviews from multiple sources. Relying on the 'brand' alone wouldn't have produced satisfactory results.

My suspicion is that many corporate entities like to "hide the ball" by constant re-branding, slicing any market into ever shrinking niche brands. This seems particularly the case with Wyndham's large portfolio of hotel brands.

 

[CO skier]

I'm posting this in the Wyndham forum because my recent experiences, both with timeshares and hotels have been with Wyndham. I realize these are 2 separate entities and that this question applies to other timeshare/ hotel brands as well.

You hit the difference on the head. Wyndham divided itself into a "hotel" company and a "timeshare" company -- Wyndham Destinations -- years ago.

The "hotel" experience is quite variable, because many (most) properties are individually owned and operated; they just get to use the Wyndham name. From experience, do not ever stay in a Wyndham Travelodge motel.

Similarly, there are wide ranging experiences with Wyndham timeshares. At one end of the spectrum are the original Fairfield resorts, at the other end are recent greenfield developments such as Club Wyndham Avon (Vail, CO) and Park City, UT.

You acknowledge the difference between Wyndham hotels and Wyndham timeshares, yet you seem to still be conflating the Wyndham "hotel brands" with the Wyndham "timeshare brands."

What exactly is your question? And does it make any difference?

 

[paxsarah]

My opinion is that the Travel + Leisure purchase would have been a great time for the Club Wyndham timeshare to rebrand and drop or minimize the Wyndham name, given that the lower-end hotel brands (i.e. the ubiquitous ones) don’t have a particularly strong reputation. I know there are a lot of business connections remaining between the two companies, but I still wonder if it’s worth keeping the name.

 

[jp10558]

I don't stay in Wyndham hotels, but have been OK with the Wyndham timeshares, and so far they've been similar levels (the ones I've gone to).

In terms of branding, I guess it really depends on the brand. I've found Hilton hotels to be extremely consistent all over the world.

 

[dioxide45]

Brand is where the value is for the hotel companies. They have massive lists of customers signed up for their loyalty programs and those customers want to return in order to earn points and benefits that go along with the loyalty program. Customers seem to have their own sense or non sense of loyalty toward a brand, but building that loyalty overtime is important for any brand, not just in hospitality.

I think some hotel brands are better at consistency of product than others. But then as noted, you have properties that constantly flip through different brands over time. I suspect because they can't keep up the standards that are expected of any of the big hotel brands. You may sometimes see these properties go independent.

As for the multiple brands (Marriott has something like 30). This is mainly to give the customer the idea that they really have a choice. The reality is that at any given interstate interchange, most of the hotels are probably under only a small hanfuld of hotel brands and may even be owned by only one or two independent property owners.

 

[Timeshare Von]

I have been rather loyal to the Wyndham brand of hotels, opting to stay with them in probably 90% of my leisure & business travel over the past 5-8 years. The Wyndham Rewards points have provided me with a lot of nice (and free) vacation stays in Wyndham affiliated properties.

All of that changed this past week, when I had a 2-night stay in the Detroit area cancelled for no apparent reason . . . and while Wyndham said the hotel cancelled it, the GM at the property denied it.

This stay was in the middle of a 10 day road trip . . . and one of many bookings I made with Wyndham during their Reward Members' promo earlier this month . . . deeply discounted rates PLUS bonus reward points.

Unfortunately, neither Wyndham nor the hotel property were willing or able to restore my erroneously cancelled booking, leaving me to find something for these 2 nights. Now the rates have gone up significantly, and of course, no bonus points because that promo ended 7/15/24.

I now feel that the Wyndham reservation system is unreliable if they cannot restore something like this error. The hotel GM could not have cared any less, so I am glad I'm not going to be staying there. But this horrific example of poor guest/member relations/service is now a reason for me to reconsider my loyalty and after this upcoming trip, find a new hotel travel provider.

 

[gravityrules]

Wyndham (both TS and hotel) is the specific example I'm using to ask the more generalized question, does branding provide any value to the customer? If we cannot depend upon certain features or standards being consistent across the brand (which has been my experience) what customer value is in a brand? So far the loyalty programs are identified as a value in branding (to both customers and operators).

 

[dioxide45]

Wyndham (both TS and hotel) is the specific example I'm using to ask the more generalized question, does branding provide any value to the customer? If we cannot depend upon certain features or standards being consistent across the brand (which has been my experience) what customer value is in a brand? So far the loyalty programs are identified as a value in branding (to both customers and operators).

I think when it comes to consistency, standards and certain features you need to look at the brand as a whole and not necessarily an individual property. There will always be outliers and exceptions but if I book a hotel stay at a Courtyard by Marriott hotel, I kind of what what to expect when I go in.

 

[paxsarah]

As a Club Wyndham owner, I value the standards that mean I can generally find what I expect when I arrive in a unit when it comes to furnishings and supplies. It’s this general level of consistency (not absolute consistency, but pretty good) that makes me question whether there’s anything gained in sharing a name with the hotel brand, which is decidedly inconsistent. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen owners complain on Facebook about Wyndham hotels like “The Days Inn in [city] is terrible and not up to Wyndham standards” as if Club Wyndham has anything to do with it.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

What exactly is your question?

Good question

 

[jp10558]

Wyndham (both TS and hotel) is the specific example I'm using to ask the more generalized question, does branding provide any value to the customer? If we cannot depend upon certain features or standards being consistent across the brand (which has been my experience) what customer value is in a brand? So far the loyalty programs are identified as a value in branding (to both customers and operators).

Well, Wyndham (the hotel anyway) sounds like it doesn't have brand standards. Or doesn't keep them up. Maybe you should try Hilton brands like Hampton Inn for instance in a few places. I have stayed at probably dozens of them over the years, maybe getting close to 60 different ones, and I know what I'm getting.They're like 99% the same everywhere. In my rare less than stellar experience I've gotten rewards points or a partial refund the 2 times I had any issue at all.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

corporate entities like to "hide the ball" by constant re-branding, slicing any market into ever shrinking niche brands

You should appreciate that, since the shrunk brand is more easy to keep consistent than is the mothership brand.

could you explain what value branding provides to the customer?

I think you know the answer and a failure here & there doesn't change the answer. Then when they create "micro-brands" you seem to find it to be some kind of "foul-play".

 

[gravityrules]

I think when it comes to consistency, standards and certain features you need to look at the brand as a whole and not necessarily an individual property. There will always be outliers and exceptions but if I book a hotel stay at a Courtyard by Marriott hotel, I kind of what what to expect when I go in.

That's certainly what I want from a brand, to know what you're going to get from that brand.

So in the TS world, does the Worldmark brand deliver that consistency better than the Wyndham brand?

 

[bnoble]

could you explain what value branding provides to the customer?

What makes you think that it is done for the customer's benefit?

From the point of view of the company, the advantage "Wyndham" has over "Fairfield" is that the former means "place to stay overnight" to more or less any random person, while the latter doesn't mean anything. That's because someone already spent a lot of money on advertising the name "Wyndham." The disadvantage, as has been pointed out, is that the name "Wyndham" also generally means "down-market hotels". There are a handful of exceptions within the specific nameplates, but not very many.

But that isn't my experience with Wyndham. My experiences have been fine so far but only because I'm putting in the time to check reviews from multiple sources. Relying on the 'brand' alone wouldn't have produced satisfactory results.

I'm not sure you know this is true. You know that the properties you've stayed at are fine. You do not know that the properties you did not stay at are not. You only suspect they would not be. Reviews are tricky things, especially for timeshare properties, because many guests are expecting a more hotel-like experience.

That said, I do think Wyndham's timeshare properties have more than their share of variance from one to the next. Even within that variance, I've generally been pleased with each stay.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

do you think a TS chain or the avg hotel has a more homogeneous customer base in terms of demographics, activities, wants, etc?

 

[gravityrules]

What makes you think that it is done for the customer's benefit?

From the point of view of the company, the advantage "Wyndham" has over "Fairfield" is that the former means "place to stay overnight" to more or less any random person, while the latter doesn't mean anything. That's because someone already spent a lot of money on advertising the name "Wyndham." The disadvantage, as has been pointed out, is that the name "Wyndham" also generally means "down-market hotels". There are a handful of exceptions within the specific nameplates, but not very many.

I'm not sure you know this is true. You know that the properties you've stayed at are fine. You do not know that the properties you did not stay at are not. You only suspect they would not be. Reviews are tricky things, especially for timeshare properties, because many guests are expecting a more hotel-like experience.

That said, I do think Wyndham's timeshare properties have more than their share of variance from one to the next. Even within that variance, I've generally been pleased with each stay.

If you are saying the benefits of branding is more for the 'company' than the customer ... I agree. But marketing promotes branding as a customer benefit.

Most of us have had negative experiences where we purchased goods or services based on our perception of a brand ... later finding reviews that could have waved a 'proceed with caution' flag.

Yes, reading and interpreting reviews is a challenge. But if there is a reasonable number of recent reviews you can weed out the likely one-off situations.

Back to a specific TS application, who benefits from the rebranding of Diamond properties to Hilton? Are these properties really up to the same standards as HGVC properties? Yes I know there is a slight branding difference, but isn't this an example branding being more misleading (rather than informing) to the customer?

 

[gravityrules]

do you think a TS chain or the avg hotel has a more homogeneous customer base in terms of demographics, activities, wants, etc?

I suspect TS chain customer base would be more homogeneous in terms of demographics but hotels would be more homogeneous in terms of expectations.

Would enjoy seeing actual data though ...

 

[dioxide45]

Back to a specific TS application, who benefits from the rebranding of Diamond properties to Hilton? Are these properties really up to the same standards as HGVC properties?

Mainly Hilton Grand Vacations benefits. They needed a rental outlet for unsold rooms. Without the "Hilton" brand hanging from the sign, they couldn't put these up on Hilton.com for nightly cash rentals. By brining them up to some level of standard within the Hilton umbrella, they can now put nights for rent on Hilton.com. To be honest, many times a "brand standard" just comes down to the bedding, towels, soap, scent in the lobby and perhaps some level of it being in generally decent condition.

 

[bnoble]

But marketing promotes branding as a customer benefit.

I mean, marketing tells me that drinking this soda or using that toothpaste will help me with the ladies, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[weems637]

I laughed when i saw the list of hotel brands under the Wyndham umbrella. We do the point thang with Hilton and Marriott, allowing us free lodging several times a year in our travels to our timeshare stays.

 

[jp10558]

If you are saying the benefits of branding is more for the 'company' than the customer ... I agree. But marketing promotes branding as a customer benefit.

Most of us have had negative experiences where we purchased goods or services based on our perception of a brand ... later finding reviews that could have waved a 'proceed with caution' flag.

Yes, reading and interpreting reviews is a challenge. But if there is a reasonable number of recent reviews you can weed out the likely one-off situations.

Back to a specific TS application, who benefits from the rebranding of Diamond properties to Hilton? Are these properties really up to the same standards as HGVC properties? Yes I know there is a slight branding difference, but isn't this an example branding being more misleading (rather than informing) to the customer?

I think in a lot of ways for anyone paying attention under the age of 50 anyway - "branding is dead". The reasons are
1) Brands "counterfit" themselves - like HVC vs HGVC, which is actually less misleading than Wustoff Gourmet vs Classic, which is less misleading than John Deer at Lowes vs at Dealer, which is less misleading than Kitchenaid pre 1984 and now, which is less misleading than when a company goes out of business and the brand is bought and put on something with 0 relation to the original. I.e. even the "official" brand has different lines that are not obviously different quality / pricepoints / whatever.

2) Brands have skimpflated themselves to where even if you navigate the above, you literally cannot but the Maytag or whatever of 30 years ago, much less 70.

3) Because the quality of the branded products in lots of areas have fallen sooooo much - the average person sees little benefit vs the random Amazon or Temu "non brand" EXFETRFDTU version, but they DO see it's $8 when the branded version is $50.

On top of this, even in legitimate and "obvious" segmentation like Lincoln vs Ford or Thinkpad vs Ideapad - the overarching "brand" is the same and many conflate the two.

In hotel land - the microsegmentation is extreme enough to me that even in Hilton - where I am most familiar - the functional differences between Hilton Garden Inn and Hampton Inn and Doubletree is mostly "Water" vs "Water + breakfast (maybe)" vs "Cookie (that's much worse than it used to be)". I really don't know why these are separate TBH. Hilton's (the specific hotels branded that) that I've been to are center city and more expensive, but otherwise have little to differentiate themselves in the rooms from the latter for me. They may have a nicer breakfast, but post COVID I can't say I've noticed that. From what I expect in the rooms, HGI, HI, DT, Hilton are equivalent to me. I put Curio, Tapestry, etc as "quirky, specifically NOT the same as any other one hotel" and haven't actually stayed at any because of that. Also they tend to cost more. Conrad / Waldorf is limited locations and way more than I want to pay. And now there's Tru and Spark which both seem to be just cheaper, and actually look so ehhh that I so far have preferred paying more for Hampton Inn, but that's just from the promotional pics on the websites. Then there's the "suites" like Hampton Inn & Suites, Embassy Suites, and I guess the long stay ones.

I think I liked Embassy Suites last time, and should try and stay in one again, but otherwise IDK anything about the long stays etc - I should also try them out sometime.

Digression aside - I think Hilton could literally cut back to Luxury(Conrad etc), Mid Market ( Hilton, HGI,HI, DT), Quirky(Tapestry, Curio, Spark, Tru), and Longstay. And an argument could be made for Quirky to include Luxury really - i.e. the "not a specific thing" brand I guess lol.

 

[CO skier]

That said, I do think Wyndham's timeshare properties have more than their share of variance from one to the next. Even within that variance, I've generally been pleased with each stay.

With way more than 100 nights in Club Wyndham resorts and dozens and dozens of nights in "Wyndham" hotels, I can absolutely state that, "The worst night in a Club Wyndham resort is better than the best night in a Wyndham hotel." (Full disclosure: I fell the same way about ANY hotel room with only a mini fridge versus the full refrigerator/freezer in a Club Wyndham resort room.)

The only Wyndham association I had with the hotels was through my Wyndham Rewards account for the free night(s). Does the typical guest at Super 8, La Quinta, Travelodge, etc. even know it is a "Wyndham" hotel/motel? Or care? I doubt it.

 

[gravityrules]

Infographic: Impact of Branding, Loyalty Programs, and Hotel Stars on Travelers' Choices

This infographic shows factors that are important for travelers when choosing a destination, by country of origin.

www.statista.com

I suppose you have to consider the source and the way the questions were presented in this survey, but branding, loyalty programs, and star rating are important to most of the respondents in this survey.

 

[jp10558]

Infographic: Impact of Branding, Loyalty Programs, and Hotel Stars on Travelers' Choices

This infographic shows factors that are important for travelers when choosing a destination, by country of origin.

www.statista.com

I suppose you have to consider the source and the way the questions were presented in this survey, but branding, loyalty programs, and star rating are important to most of the respondents in this survey.

Hmmm, this does tie into my comments above where
Hilton Honors accepting hotels does tie into my brand expectations, but the sub brands are mostly irrelevant and if I was less informed and ended up at a Tru "by accident" I think it would hurt my Hilton brand perception that till now has been largely Hampton Inn and up. So Loyalty programs, especially good ones, make an overarching brand sticky. Timeshare systems are the hardest core "loyalty program" in a way.

On the Wyndham hotels side, I agree with CO Skier - even if someone knows Super 8 or Traveloge are "Wyndham" - is anyone thinking the brand experience there is worth the loyalty program at all? Like, my family members will stay at a Super 8 cause it's cheap, but they're literally looking at what's the lowest price on booking.com. There's no loyalty. There's no - oh it might be worth paying 10% extra for the "Super 8 experience". OTOH, many will go the opposite for even Hampton Inn. They're generally seen as "quite nice" hotels. And like I've implied above, brands die trying to compete for lowest price on booking.com (or Amazon.com or Temu etc)...

What I don't know from that infographic, which I think is important is:
"How do you go about booking a hotel?". i.e. if you start at google maps or booking.com, then I think branding and loyalty programs aren't that important. If you start in the loyalty program app like the Hilton app tied into HHonors like I do - then it's the Loyalty program. I don't actually know anyone who is brand loyal like people are around cars or like swiss army knives for Hotels though. I.e. no loyalty program or status or free nights, but "I want to stay only at Holiday Inns" or something.