What to say in an ROFR challenge letter?

[Bill4728]

If Pahio wants the units back, instead of using a ROFR (which they don't have), they should just bid on some of these Ebay auctions.

Diamond resorts started doing that about 6 months ago.

 

[talkamotta]

WOW I dont know how this post got by me.

As you know I bought a Pahio Ka Eo Kai. I should be getting the signed documents this week. I bought my 2 bedroom for $1850, feel good about the price. There is another one on ebay right now for $100

Pahio at Ka Eo Kai Timeshare Hawaii Princeville
Floating 2bdrm/2bth sleep 6 - Gold Crowne No Reserve Item number: 150235377617

I verified that it is in Phase III.

This is the email I sent to him:

Dear timesharepro,

Thanks there is a big difference between phase II and III. I was wondering about the ROFR because I just bought a unit at Ka Eo Kai Phase III and I was looking to buy another one. Wyndam tried to exercise that right and I asked where it was in the original deed. They backed out. If you say they in fact do, then I wont waste my time, they do exercise that right on all properties. I guess thats why the bidding is so low. Others know about this too. Doesnt make much difference to you since you are a resaler and not the original buyer.

His reply was:

We haven’t been getting to much for these properties lately. The resort has the ROFR even if it is not in the original contract. Thanks.

Thanks,

John Kushman

This is an example of ignorance. On the part of the resaler trying to start up a ebay business. Maybe he is not a very honest man and is in cahoots with Wyndam. I know he doesnt have his client (the original purchaser) best interest.

Also how ROFR's affects the owners and thier investment. Owners not planning to sell arent to concerned, until those that are needing to sell just default and all owners mf increase.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The seller gets more money when the property is ROFR'd.

Seller gets purchase price when you buy it; the closing company gets those fees; Wyndham gets the $250 transfer fees and reimbursement of maintenance fees.

So the seller just gets the purchase price in the above scenario.

If PAHIO/ Wyndham exercises ROFR, seller gets all of the money, the entire amount, including closing costs and transfer fees that would have gone to Wyndham, and also the maintenance fees.

Wyndham pays for the whole package. That is why the resellers are okay with allowing ROFR to go through.

 

[talkamotta]

Oh so thats the scam. The reseller gets anyone (even a friend) to make a bid on a property knowing full well that Wyndam will do the ROFR. Feels good about it because he discloses ROFR which is a bunch of :ignore:

well dummy me.

 

[pammex]

Just wanted to congratulate you on your success. Good job and enjoy your treasure!!!

 

[PA-]

It seems to me that if a management company claims to have ROFR, when in fact they don't, and they use that claim to interfere with a real estate contract, they are breaking the law. While most people don't have the money to fight them in court, there may be a less expensive way to fight this. Anybody can file a complaint with the real estate commission in the state where the resort is. If I were in the middle of a transaction involving PAHIO or anywhere else where this is going on, I would inform the escrow company, seller and the developer that I intend to enforce my rights. If the escrow company proceeds to sell to Pahio, or if the seller signs over their deed to the developer, they could be in breach of contract. That type of warning might force the escrow company to demand proof that the ROFR exists and put an end to this once and for all.

If any of you have been harmed by a claim of an ROFR that didn't exist, I recommend you file a complaint immediately with the real estate commission. You can generally do that on-line. The Hawaii regulatory agency is more anti-timeshare developer than most.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the seller for breaking the contract or on the developer for interfering with the contract. They'll have to show cause, not you.

 

[rickandcindy23]

PA-, I agree completely. PAHIO is skating on thin ice with me, but I have always handled it "nicely," even though the closing company and the sellers would rather let the resort have the week back, because they all stand to make more money off of it.

 

[DaveNV]

I still don't understand why PAHIO doesn't just let sellers give units back to them instead of playing this stupid ROFR game. I started this thread, and I got my unit, but now I read others are being denied theirs. Where's the consistency? And if PAHIO isn't actively selling units in the resorts, why would they even want them back? I'd think a happy owner who pays MFs every year would be a darn site easier to tolerate than a unit nobody owns that isn't generating any income for the management company...

That alll smacks of fraud.

Dave

 

[PA-]

I still don't understand why PAHIO doesn't just let sellers give units back to them instead of playing this stupid ROFR game. I started this thread, and I got my unit, but now I read others are being denied theirs. Where's the consistency? And if PAHIO isn't actively selling units in the resorts, why would they even want them back? I'd think a happy owner who pays MFs every year would be a darn site easier to tolerate than a unit nobody owns that isn't generating any income for the management company...

That alll smacks of fraud.

Dave

Wyndham turns the deeded week into a UDI interest. They want to maintain complete control of everything there.

 

[DaveNV]

Wyndham turns the deeded week into a UDI interest. They want to maintain complete control of everything there.

I guess I don't know what a UDI interest is. ???

Dave

 

[AwayWeGo]

U. D. I. = Undivided Interest.

I guess I don't know what a UDI interest is.

I like timeshares deeded as particular weeks in specific units. That way even if the points system & the floating system & the whole "system" turns into a pumpkin, I've still got my week my unit. The deed says so.

However that may be, the timeshare where I own a deeded floating diamond-season 3BR lock-off unit also sold various oddball deeded UDIs -- Undivided Interests -- expressed as a fraction such as (for illustration) 2,611 / 843,755 of the entire resort.

It made sense when sold to a new customer who was also signing up for the timeshare company's proprietary points-based timeshare exchange system. That oddball fraction might work out fine for various options-based or points-based exchanges into various timeshare resorts around the country & around the world that are part of the same proprietary (i.e., non-RCI & non-I-I) "mini-system."

However, stripped out of the proprietary "mini-system" & transferred via resale to a secondary buyer who doesn't belong to the "club" (& who would have to pay big bux to join the club), those oddball UDIs might not even work out to a full week at the timeshare where they are owned. As a resort manager expressed it, "Some of the small UDIs are good for approximately 1 afternoon in the pool." That's an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Hekela]

Hi All I am new here and have been reading all of your horror stories I just purchased even year week at Bali Hai on ebay for $200.00. Now I love this resort we were lucky and did a last minute trade with my Deer Run Village week(no longer in business, of couse after paid fees) back in 05, this last January we went to Cliffs and I wasnt that impressed and wished we stayed at Bali Hai. Anyway bought this now and am concerned that they will try and use ROFR. This is what the timeshare lady said

"Today, I received your original credit card authorization form, as I was out of my office the weekend and Monday.
Just so you know, your transfer will take closer to 70-90 days as we will need to record a deed in the Bureau of Conveyances in Hawaii.
I have since found out that all of the Pahio Resort purchases are subject to first right of refusal. The first right of refusal request will go out to them on Thursday, so I will NOT be charging your card until we receive the waiver of first right of refusal directly from Pahio. I have also found out that it can take as along as 2 weeks for them to make their decision.
Once the waiver is received, we will move forward and get the new deed out to the Seller’s for notarized signature and your card will be charged the same day as the documents go out. If I find out that Pahio is intending on purchasing the interval back, you will notified just as soon as I hear from them. Most often, they do not buy the interval back, but it is in their contracts that they need to be notified and the request for the waiver must be issued. I need to follow their rules and regulations and we will both hope for the best. . . . "

So I emailed her and asked what ICN is and when I find it out I read that someone is able to look them up?

 

[rickandcindy23]

I saw that week go cheaply. Was it a one-bedroom?

PAHIO will try to exercise their phony right, and you just need to be nice and go along with it, write a nice letter, and then get it "waived." If about five of us wrote to the Hawaii Real Estate Commission at the same time, complaining about this fraudulent claim they are making, it would take no time to end it for all involved.

I think the reason you got such a great deal is the general lack of knowledge out there; many people don't know PAHIO doesn't have the right, so they let them have the weeks back without a fight. They figure, "Why go through THAT again?" The sellers put it in their ads, for crying out loud. That is cutting right into their profits.

 

[Tia]

Perfect example of 'Knowledge is Power' don't you think?

 

[JimIg23]

Do all Wyndham resorts have ROFR?

 

[Hekela]

yes it was a one bedroom and even year... get this, the title company selling it told Bali Hai I was buying it for 1199 not 199.... interesting. I emailed the title company and she told me that in the seller contract it does state in Misc item 8 about the ROFR. I asked for a copy of it and she said she couldnt. They bought this timeshare in 1999. So I know this is bougus. What do you think?

 

[rickandcindy23]

The closing company still makes their money if PAHIO buys it back. The seller makes more money, too, because they can put whatever figure they want on the paperwork. I hate that you are going through this, but unlike many other people out there, you have more information and can proceed with a plan of attack.

If you read this thread, you will see that this closing company cannot take the week from you, nor will PAHIO. You need to write a letter. If you feel they are going to go forward with the ROFR without your chance at getting the week, then all you need to do is call the Hawaii Real Estate Commission because you are dealing with real estate professionals, and they are breaking laws here. I am telling you there is a case against these people, and the only cost to you is a phone call or a letter emailed or faxed to the appropriate authorities.

 

[Bill4728]

Do all Wyndham resorts have ROFR?

Most FF/Wyndham resorts do not have ROFR. PAHIO put it into their sale contracts a few years before Wyndham bought their resorts. So Pahio is one of the few Wyndham resorts which have some units which do have ROFR.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Very few actually have ROFR attached. I know for a fact that Wyndham isn't putting that clause into their contracts, because I have one of those contracts, and they took over in July of 2006. The ROFR was in the contracts for one year, from July of 2005- July of 2006.

 

[Hekela]

thanks for the info. They did exercise their right (of course) I have been in contact with my title company and she says there is nothing we can do. They have that right. I thought it didnt start until 2007? So why would the sellers say they have that in their contract? So I emailed lori and my titlle company and asked for proof. Now what?

 

[rickandcindy23]

So what you need to do is challenge the ROFR with PAHIO, not with the closing company. The closing company is breaking the law to alow this to happen. You are going to be a victim, if you don't fight it, and there is no reason for you to be a victim. I would find out the unit number and week from the closing company and call PAHIO right away, call Lori Nishimoto, and go over the head of the closing company to get this taken care of.

What closing company is this? All of the closing companies KNOW BETTER because TUGgers have been telling them all along that this is illegal. If they make more money, they will break the law. It's disgusting! Disgusting postcard companies and their sellers, who make money on people, as much as they possibly can, even to the point of breaking laws and lying. I truly couldn't sleep at night if my line of work involved constant lying and deliberately deceiving everyone I come in contact with.

 

[Hekela]

delete post

 

[reddiablosv]

Pahio fraudulant ROFR

Intentionally cheating buyers of their legitimately negotiated bargain purchases of a Pahio timeshares by claiming legal rights to that purchase which Pahio knows it does not have is fraud. IMHO every buyer who has been cheated should be compensated by an amount equal to the difference between his resale purchase price and the amount Pahio charges a retail buyer. I know many posters disdain lawsuits, but in a class action lawsuit, the primary litigant does very well. One class action lawsuit would stop this practice. Ben

 

[rickandcindy23]

Hi Ben,
Yes, it drives me crazy, and I am not the only one that is sick of the game they play. Letters to the RE Commission, and this practice would end immediately, but who is going to do it? ME! I already did write a letter, and tomorrow, it gets faxed. I am going to take my chances that PAHIO will find out.

Honestly, who is PAHIO anyway? I thought it was Wyndham now, but they still go by PAHIO everywhere, even RCI. Wyndham might like to know what is going on as well. Shneaky, shneaky!

 

[richardm]

Just a quick word of caution- are you sure it's a good idea to try and squash the ROFR attempt by Wyndham? The ROFR process itself shouldn't really a bad thing from an owner's viewpoint- as it helps maintain a consistent level of pricing for a property.

The developers which have consistently applied ROFR decisions have properties with a strong resale value, and have maintained those values. Look at Disney- clients that bought five or six years ago on resale actually saw a slight increase in value if they sold recently- because of the ROFR process pushing up buyer offers. Marriott and Hyatt are other prime examples of this- the resorts with ROFR maintain value and those without drop like stones..

We all know the trouble facing Wyndham fixed week and Points owners whose resale values are on life support. Can't the same thing happen at Pahio if the ROFR attempt is discarded or inconsistent?

Everyone likes to get a great deal when they purchase- but don't forget there is always a seller out there who just got crushed! And buyers may one day be sellers..