What resort system is best?

[ravenna]

Hello!

I'm new... and I'm sure this question has been discussed before (sorry). For those of you who have experienced more than one of the main resort systems, what's everyone's favorite system to own?

I've read that Hilton has the best and most stable MF but lots of extra fees and a difficult website. I hear that Marriot has more resorts - but uses something called "DC" that some people dislike. And everyone here seems to agree that Westgate is pure evil.

I just learned about timeshares last month when I fell for a sales pitch and was roped into buying at Elara--Vegas. I think I've managed to rescind that crazy purchase. But I'm interested in buying a resale now.

What I like about HGVC: NYC and Washington DC are real highlights to me, though the MF's mean I'd want to buy at another location. I want a system with a track record of NOT jacking up the MF too much. And while I don't mind booking far in advance, I want to know that I can actually get into NYC and DC provided I do book early when the 'club window' (44 days at 57th street, I think) opens.

I know nothing about the other resort systems. So any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

There are plus and minus to all the systems. I own with HGVC and am happy with it. Yes they do have fees associated with most transactions, but i think it balances out with lower annual MF.

As for NYC and Washington DC with HGVC, those are both part of the Hilton Club, which is sort of brand within a brand. They both have additional restrictions unless you own there, mostly shorter booking windows. I have booked at W57 before, so i know its possible. Personally i much places with more of resort setting than urban locations so the shorter booking window does not bother me much. However if those are your primary destinations, you should probably consider owning there so you have a longer window and a better chance of getting more days in a row,..

 

[DazedandConfused]

I just learned about timeshares last month when I fell for a sales pitch and was roped into buying at Elara--Vegas. I think I've managed to rescind that crazy purchase. But I'm interested in buying a resale now.

So any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

#1 advice is to make sure you RESCINDED and got your money back

#2 advice is to make sure #1 is completed

#3 advice to to study TUG and the timeshare market as this may or may not be for you. Booking NYC and Wash DC "cheaply" is not easy

 

[Talent312]

For me, the criteria for choosing a system was this:
1. Several resorts where I want to go.
2. One or more resorts in a 1-day drive for quick getaways.
3. A tie-in to a major exchange service - RCI or II.
4. Friendly to resale buyers -- full use of affiliated resorts.
5. Fairly stable MF's and transaction fees.
6. An owner's website that's reasonably consumer-friendly.

While not great on all counts, HGVC grades close to the top.

"Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye." -- Shakespeare

.

 

[GregT]

For me, the criteria for choosing a system was this:
1. Several resorts where I want to go.
2. One or more resorts in a 1-day drive for quick getaways.
3. A tie-in to a major exchange service - RCI or II.
4. Friendly to resale buyers -- full use of affiliated resorts.
5. Fairly stable MF's and transaction fees.
6. An owner's website that's reasonably consumer-friendly.

While not great on all counts, HGVC grades close to the top.

"Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye." -- Shakespeare

.

This is very well said and I agree with his points. There is a thread that has started in the Marriott board called "Venturing out of MVC" -- it is asking similar questions, but from a Marriott perspective. It may be worth tracking that too.

Best,

Greg

 

[Sandy VDH]

I own Wyndham(5), HGVC(2) and HICV(1), listed in decreasing order of points (or underlying deeds).

They all have the pluses and minuses. Wyndham has the largest number of resorts, but sales are horrible, pushy and obnoxious. Resales are cheap so it is easy to get points. Resale gets all of the same access EXCEPT for VIP perks, those are for purchases directly from Wyndham. HGVC has quality resorts, but just not enough locations, but is getting better. With ROFR at most properties, it does keep Platinum and some Gold week values up. Resale gets treated the same EXCEPT for Elite Perks. I don't have enough in HICV, I never planned on owning HICV but my resort was bought out and the conversion was cheap and easy so I did it.

 

[Helios]

My ranking in order, based on the systems I own VOIs, is Starwood (10 units), Marriott (1 units, and Hilton (1 unit). My ranking is largely based on quality and locations. Like I said, this is my ranking, YMMV...

I think Hilton is definitely the best system for resale buyers. Starwood mandatory units are close with the only difference that you cannot get Starpoints from them (unless you retro them).

 

[ravenna]

Thanks to you all for your help and advice.

I am struggling to understand the Wyndham system - I read the posted articles on TUG but am still baffled. Sorry to be a pain...

I saw an appetizing Wyndham resale for Alexandria VA: cost is 5000 dollars. Points: 84000. Bonus points: 160000. MF 40 dollars (can that be true?).

But the description of the place says "Week: points. Unit size: varies."

What does that mean? If I spend 5000 dollars, do I or don't I get a floating week in the Alexandria resort for just $40 MF per year? What does 84000 points plus 160000 bonus points win me? What's the catch?

 

[Sandy VDH]

There are lots of Wyndham resales that are less than $5k, many are giving them away. You can't compare HGVC points to Wyndham points think of them as completely different currency.

Wyndham 2 BR Prime season range from 154K - 224K points for a full week stay. A 1 BR 105K - 166K. The MF is likely $40 PER MONTH, since wyndham collects MFs monthly in most cases. Wyndham's vary in point values.

Compare that to HGVC a 2 BR is generally 7000, a 1 BR 4800 in prime season, but there are resorts that are exceptions.

So 84000 does not get you very far. Bonus, I suspect these are Pooled points, and I have heard that pooled points are NO longer transfering with resales.

Read more ask more questions. Look at the Wyndham directory. This is the latest, despite the date. You can see the resorts and the points for most but not all of the resorts, The newest ones are NOT in this version.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/index.php

 

[tscofl]

Hello!

I'm new... and I'm sure this question has been discussed before (sorry). For those of you who have experienced more than one of the main resort systems, what's everyone's favorite system to own?

I've read that Hilton has the best and most stable MF but lots of extra fees and a difficult website. I hear that Marriot has more resorts - but uses something called "DC" that some people dislike. And everyone here seems to agree that Westgate is pure evil.

I just learned about timeshares last month when I fell for a sales pitch and was roped into buying at Elara--Vegas. I think I've managed to rescind that crazy purchase. But I'm interested in buying a resale now.

What I like about HGVC: NYC and Washington DC are real highlights to me, though the MF's mean I'd want to buy at another location. I want a system with a track record of NOT jacking up the MF too much. And while I don't mind booking far in advance, I want to know that I can actually get into NYC and DC provided I do book early when the 'club window' (44 days at 57th street, I think) opens.

I know nothing about the other resort systems. So any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

 

[tscofl]

Hi,

I am new to TUG and was just reading your post. Why does Westgate have a bad name? I'm an owner at Westgate in one of their newest buildings and it's gorgeous! Please shed some light on what I may be missing or why people think this way.
Thanks!

 

[ravenna]

@tscofl
I am new too, but what I understand is that westgate has very shady and deceptive sales practices - eg they will kidnap your puppy and torture it for eight hours until you sign a contract. (I bought at Hilton which also was fraught with lies and deception, but apparently westgate is the worst of the worst.).

Maybe the experienced people here can fill you in.

 

[seagila]

Why does Westgate have a bad name? I'm an owner at Westgate in one of their newest buildings and it's gorgeous! Please shed some light on what I may be missing or why people think this way.
Thanks!

I neither own nor have I stayed at a Westgate resort, but reading through the Buying, Selling and Renting forum on TUG, one gets the impression that Westgate the corporation is not the best to deal with and resale members get very diluted privileges.

Do a search for "Westgate" or "Wastegate" and you'll find threads like this one:

Help with Westgate timeshare

I've also seen "The Queen of Versailles" which is a documentary about the owner of Westgate and his family. It's actually quite a sad commentary. It also briefly shows how Westgate lost Elara to HGVC.

The resorts themselves seem nice, otherwise they wouldn't find buyers. So if you're happy with the resort and what you paid for it and you intend to use it for a long time and don't expect to get anything back when you try to sell it down the road (though owners have reported having diffculties giving Westgate weeks away even for free), then you're good.

 

[Passepartout]

I am new to TUG and was just reading your post. Why does Westgate have a bad name? I'm an owner at Westgate in one of their newest buildings and it's gorgeous! Please shed some light on what I may be missing or why people think this way.
Thanks!

They ARE nice resorts, but have a reputation here of extremely deceptive and predatory sales practices. They say that a presentation will take 2 hours and regularly hold people all day despite their protestations. Then if buyers attempt to rescind the sale (entirely their right and within the timeframe) sales will call and tell them their reason isn't good enough, or make them offers simply e=designed to delay them beyond the allowable time they can rescind. THEN if the owner (like you) want to sell their interval, Wastegate strips any perks from it to the resale buyer. They can only book at the 'home' resort, and only within 45- or 60 days before arrival. Consequently resales have no value and can't be sold. THEN if the owner simply stops paying Wastegate uses strong arm collection tactics and prosecutes to the full extent of the law before allowing foreclosure to take place, often ruining the credit of the owner.

That's it in a nutshell.

Sorry you're an owner. Like I said, Nice resorts, but lousy business practices.

Jim

 

[Talent312]

IIRC, Wastegate has also pulled every trick in the book to maintain control over HOA boards.
And, in Orlando, they used a fraudulent permit application to commence construction of a new resort, notwithstanding that a widow owns a condo in the middle of it. See these news stories:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange/os-widow-sues-westgate-resorts-20170104-story.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-westgate-condo-widow-scott-maxwell-20170210-story.html

.

 

[tscofl]

Hi,

I am new to TUG and was just reading your post. Why does Westgate have a bad name? I'm an owner at Westgate in one of their newest buildings and it's gorgeous! Please shed some light on what I may be missing or why people think this way.
Thanks!

 

[tscofl]

Thank you all for your comments. Yes I agree they do have deceptive selling techniques (we were definitely fooled) but I really like the unit. So it looks like it will be difficult to sell and rent...not good.

 

[mischelleman]

My ranking in order, based on the systems I own VOIs, is Starwood (10 units), Marriott (1 units, and Hilton (1 unit). My ranking is largely based on quality and locations. Like I said, this is my ranking, YMMV...

I think Hilton is definitely the best system for resale buyers. Starwood mandatory units are close with the only difference that you cannot get Starpoints from them (unless you retro them).

I'm new to TS. What does retro mean re: Starpoints? I understood only certain locations had Starpoints and they were available to the resale buyer. Thanks

 

[DeniseM]

Starpoints are hotel points, and the timeshare points are called Staroptions. Retro means that you buy a Vistana timeshare on the resale market, and then buy a full-priced timeshare (min $20K) from the developer and as part of the deal, they "requaify" the resale, so that it has the full benefits of a developer purchase. Please visit the Vistana/Starwood forum for more info.

 

[csodjd]

I found one of the first steps of learning the timeshare consumer business is to learn the terminology. It can be a bit baffling, and very confusing. Each system uses it's own terminology, users here use a lot of abbreviations and acronyms, etc. I sat with a pad of paper and jotted down terms and expressions for HGVC (Hilton Grand Vacation Club) and MVC (Marriott Vacation Club). Even within a club, such as Marriott, they refer to their points in multiple different ways. Took me a week to figure out what EOY was (every other year). <g> As discussed in a different thread, even the term, "Hawaii" can have different meanings -- the state, the Island, even Oaho to some people.

I say, take notes as you read. Slowly plot out the terminology as you go.

 

[Helios]

I found one of the first steps of learning the timeshare consumer business is to learn the terminology. It can be a bit baffling, and very confusing. Each system uses it's own terminology, users here use a lot of abbreviations and acronyms, etc. I sat with a pad of paper and jotted down terms and expressions for HGVC (Hilton Grand Vacation Club) and MVC (Marriott Vacation Club). Even within a club, such as Marriott, they refer to their points in multiple different ways. Took me a week to figure out what EOY was (every other year). <g> As discussed in a different thread, even the term, "Hawaii" can have different meanings -- the state, the Island, even Oaho to some people.

I say, take notes as you read. Slowly plot out the terminology as you go.

There a good thread that has a lot of the Vistana acronyms...

 

[Tamaradarann]

I own Wyndham(5), HGVC(2) and HICV(1), listed in decreasing order of points (or underlying deeds).

They all have the pluses and minuses. Wyndham has the largest number of resorts, but sales are horrible, pushy and obnoxious. Resales are cheap so it is easy to get points. Resale gets all of the same access EXCEPT for VIP perks, those are for purchases directly from Wyndham. HGVC has quality resorts, but just not enough locations, but is getting better. With ROFR at most properties, it does keep Platinum and some Gold week values up. Resale gets treated the same EXCEPT for Elite Perks. I don't have enough in HICV, I never planned on owning HICV but my resort was bought out and the conversion was cheap and easy so I did it.

I understood that Wyndham has a weeks and a points system. If you own the weeks system you can't reserve other resorts in the Wyndham system but must use the RCI system to exchange. Therefore, you need to purchase the points system to give you the Wyndham reservation system.

 

[dominidude]

What I like about HGVC: NYC and Washington DC are real highlights to me, though the MF's mean I'd want to buy at another location. I want a system with a track record of NOT jacking up the MF too much. And while I don't mind booking far in advance, I want to know that I can actually get into NYC and DC provided I do book early when the 'club window' (44 days at 57th street, I think) opens.

I know nothing about the other resort systems. So any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

It seems that you should consider buying a RESALE worldmark points contract, with the original contract being bought from the developer BEFORE Nov 2006.

If you do that, you should have access to Club Wyndham Plus, which has resorts in both NYC and near enough to DC (Alexandria VA and National Harbor MD).

I can think of no other system with a better track record of not increasing fees too much.

You can find RESALE worldmark points for sale in eBay and timeshareangels.com

Cheers!

 

[JohnPaul]

It seems that you should consider buying a RESALE worldmark points contract, with the original contract being bought from the developer BEFORE Nov 2006.

If you do that, you should have access to Club Wyndham Plus, which has resorts in both NYC and near enough to DC (Alexandria VA and National Harbor MD).

This is not quite accurate. If YOU owned the points before November 2006 then they are grandfathered. Anything you buy resale after Nov 2006 is not grandfathered and does not give you access to Wyndham Club Pass, Wyndham Australia, etc. It does not matter what the first date of the contract was.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I understood that Wyndham has a weeks and a points system. If you own the weeks system you can't reserve other resorts in the Wyndham system but must use the RCI system to exchange. Therefore, you need to purchase the points system to give you the Wyndham reservation system.

Wyndham does have a points system however there are some weeks still out there for resale that have never been converted to the new points system. Any week can be converted to points, for a few, it is just not cost effective in most cases, especially if you are trying to buy for the purpose of points.

Some people want only a fixed week in Wyndham because that one week is a high demand week, and they can use it or rent it for a premium, without having to worry about booking it along with everyone else during ARP 13 month window.

All but 1 of my Wyndham deeds are fixed weeks CONVERTED to points. All older Wyndham resorts were sold as fixed weeks. So I own fixed weeks at Wyndham, HOWEVER those weeks are all now in the point system.

So just clarity, if the wydham resale unit is begin sold as a deeded fixed week, it MAY or it MAY NOT already be converted. You need to check.