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What percentage of 884,000 Owners are VIP?

kaljor

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And a pretty good system it is.
 

SNA27

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Why don't they combine it then? What is the point of a takeover if you can't assimilate it in a reasonable time!
Don't even get me started on this magical Blue Thread! BS! It's an inconclusively severed RED umbilical cord!
I always thought WYND was spun off from WH but 10Q states that WYND spun off WH. I will look at 10Q of WH tomorrow and I hope it doesn't say WH spun off WYND.
 
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geist1223

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Wyndham Destinations is the newer Corporate Creature. It was spun off Wyndham and created to formally "separate" the Hotel Side from the Timeshare/Resort Side. Wyndham is unable to totally assimilate Worldmark because of Worldmark's Founding Documentation/Rules.
 

Eric B

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Why don't they combine it then? What is the point of a takeover if you can't assimilate it in a reasonable time!
Don't even get me started on this magical Blue Thread! BS! It's an inconclusively severed RED umbilical cord!
I always thought WYND was spun off of WYN but 10Q states that WYND spun off WYN. I will look at 10Q of WYN tomorrow and I hope it doesn't say WYN spun off WYND.
If they just combined them they couldn’t use Club Pass as an incentive for retail purchases and would lose out on the $99 fee for use. There are other timing issues as well.
 

HitchHiker71

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Why don't they combine it then? What is the point of a takeover if you can't assimilate it in a reasonable time!
Don't even get me started on this magical Blue Thread! BS! It's an inconclusively severed RED umbilical cord!
I always thought WYND was spun off of WYN but 10Q states that WYND spun off WYN. I will look at 10Q of WYN tomorrow and I hope it doesn't say WYN spun off WYND.
Because the legal trust documents that define each timeshare system don't legally allow for it. This exact question was asked during the Q&A session at the annual owner's meeting and this was the exact answer given. Unless a majority of owners from both Wyndham and Worldmark were to vote to combine the timeshare entities - it's not something that can simply be decided by Wyndham. Wyndham has done some polling on this topic in the past and their data shows that there is no real appetite for doing so from either subset of owners - but especially not from Worldmark owners from what I've gathered. Without the support of the actual owners, there's no way Wyndham can do anything.

There is work being done, again from what was discussed at the owner's meeting, to allow for automated searches and bookings using Club Pass. The COO directly commented on this topic and said that the current manual booking program was something they chose to release as a stop gap to allow for something to exist between the two timeshare systems, with the understanding that further automated website booking capabilities will be coming in the future. No specific dates were shared on when the website booking capability using Club Pass will be available, at least not that I can recall.
 

geist1223

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I am not absolutely certain but I believe this is one of the votes the Developer (Wyndham) can not vote their Points. At least on the Worldmark side.
 

SNA27

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What would stop Wyndham from changing both the programs to be more and more alike and overcome the resistance to a complete merger?
Perhaps the Privileges program is an attempt to bring this to fruition! Who knows the mysterious ways of Wyndham gods! :)
 

dgalati

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What would stop Wyndham from changing both the programs to be more and more alike and overcome the resistance to a complete merger?
Perhaps the Privileges program is an attempt to bring this to fruition! Who knows the mysterious ways of Wyndham gods! :)
Not a chance this will happen, Worldmark does not have a VIP program and their maintenance fees are lower compared to Wyndhams . Worlmark/Wyndham owners can tell you the pros and cons of Worldmarks system compared to Wyndham's with the cost of VIP privileges.
 
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schoolmarm

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What would stop Wyndham from changing both the programs to be more and more alike and overcome the resistance to a complete merger?
Perhaps the Privileges program is an attempt to bring this to fruition! Who knows the mysterious ways of Wyndham gods! :)
This won't happen because they would have to re-write EVERYBODY'S contract and all of the each resort's legal documents. And this could only happen after a vote of all the members, if at all.

While I like having new posters on the forum, it is always a good idea for them to read through the old threads to have some historical or institutional memory. Especially before you are positioning yourself as an expert. Without this, you can give out mis-information or dredge up posits or arguments that have been fought, dismissed or discussed in the past...sometimes ad nauseum. It is also a good idea to get the "feel" for the forum and to know who the respected posters are and who is not respected. Aim to join the respected and wise.

It is my hope that my fellow Ohioan, dgalati, and our new poster SNA27 can take some time to read more than they post on the forum as to avoid being irritating and being put on peoples' "ignore" list. People are busy. Most here love their timeshares. Most are also looking to stretch their points or add resale or PIC. And I hope that I am not too bold as to suggest that most of us really do not want Wyndham employees, especially those in sales, as active members of our forum. I've seen how the tone changes on the various Facebook groups when they are involved. I really don't think that it adds truth to our discussions. And I say this with over 10 years of experience with Wyndham.

And, SNA27, without resale owners Wyndham would be in big trouble. Please stop your tirade against resale owners. One of the aims of TUG is to save people from spending too much on their timeshare by buying resale. Without the option to sell a deed, people would dump their ownerships and then MFs would go unpaid. Resale owners help out those who want to exit and relieve themselves of their MFs. And they help Wyndham by continuing to pay MFs and thus keeping costs down. And when I want to divest of my ownership, I certainly do NOT want to give my deeds back to Wyndham. I would much rather help out a young family or a bargain hunter with their foray into timesharing--and whether I choose to sell it for a reduced price or give it away is my choice.
 

SNA27

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Tirade against resale owners? Maybe you rethink that after reading what I wrote elsewhere!

Your cup is half-full, not half-empty! You get everything a NON-VIP retail purchaser gets! And even pay a lower program fee!
I thought Plus-Perks is open to all with an annual membership fee! It's free for me now but I have never used it because it's not that useful!
Wyndham Club Pass: I hate the idea of calling and finding out there is no availability. I hope they go to online self-service with everything! I don't like the $99 fee either.
USA Today is a Perk? Funny! I would rather get the local newspaper, if at all!

@Braindead started this 'What would King of Wyndham do?' subtopic. I'm paraphrasing him using your question, obviously! Maybe it should be a thread on its own.

It's all about supply vs. demand. Resale buyers play an important part in Capacity Utilization and pay the MF for the upkeep. Without them, defaults will increase and the rest of the owners will have to make up the shortfall one way or the other. @Braindead's suggestion of treating them as 'undesirables' may not pass legal muster. For example, in a condo complex, an identical unit may have sold for a range of prices over the years. Do you deny pool privileges to the owner who bought cheaply?

All my deeds are governed by HOA rules but I haven't read the actual verbiage which entitles me access to Club Wyndham Pass and the internal exchange. Again, if you limit CWP access to resale buyers, nobody would buy them since resale buyers are buying the deed mainly for access to CWP.

Maybe, they can charge resale owners higher fees for all kinds of services (Title transfer, reservations, GCs, etc.) and give retail purchasers lower fees. Ok, don't beat me up on this? I have no idea if it would be even legal. But I bet they can and do all kinds of things in their Voyager system unbeknownst to us. When I was Temp Silver with CWA in 2017 or Gold in early 2018 with GD deed, the availability calendar used to be a lot grayer than it's now as a permanent VIP-P! I would love to get a peek into the internals of that system. I don't think we all have equal access to availability even in the Standard window.

The hospitality business is a tough business and I have no idea about their business model. I would like to think Wyndham knows a lot more about these complex issues than me or even a businessman like @Braindead!
 

schoolmarm

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Tirade against resale owners? Maybe you rethink that after reading what I wrote elsewhere!
Yes, I notice that you have changed your tune. This does happen after living "here" for a while. I appreciate your new "voice". Thank you.

But my statement stands...even though your last posts have softened, your probably lost some seasoned viewers by your earlier tirade. I know that I did not appreciate it.
 

SNA27

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So, your last post was a belated response to an imagined tirade from the past! Hmm! :)

Btw, you're indeed too bold to suggest Wyndham employees should keep out! They're here and they're not interested in getting roughed up!
 

schoolmarm

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So, your last post was a belated response to an imagined tirade from the past! Hmm! :)

Btw, you're indeed too bold to suggest Wyndham employees should keep out! They're here and they're not interested in getting roughed up!
We know that they are here. They usually have not, in the past, been valuable or forthcoming in their posts. They can lurk all they want. In fact I suspect more than a few are actually in sales or management.

I don't have the time to dig up your past posts (538 since the end of November--a bit much for a newbie, methinks), nor do I have the time to engage on the topic of your "bashing/dislike/tirade/whatever" about resale owners. Remember that the tone of your posts can be misread. Even with your smiley face above, I am reading you as arrogent, whether that is your intention or not. Just your Profile line NO CWA/NO RESALE oozes with Privilege and not in the Wyndham way. I usually try to post with some humor and I know that sometimes the tone is misread.

In closing, I am happy to see that in the other threads you have softened up a bit and actually look like you are starting to fit in. I don't mean any ill will.

I'm a little stressed out because I leave Sunday for 4.5 months abroad on a Fulbright and my passport and Visa have not yet been returned to me. I've been on the computer more today then usual trying to get the Embassy over there to contact the Consulate over here. It's been 2 months and this is way longer that it should be taking. So if I appear edgy, it is not directed to anyone on this fora. Just "staying close" to the email for news. I should go pack some more. :)
 

kaljor

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There was one poster some time ago who claimed to be a former salesman, and he had some interesting posts. I'm not aware of any Wyndham employees posting here these days, but I'm sure that tons of them lurk here to find out information about the company. They probably learn more about Wyndham from us than from their company!
 

Eric B

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... I leave Sunday for 4.5 months abroad on a Fulbright and my passport and Visa have not yet been returned to me. I've been on the computer more today then usual trying to get the Embassy over there to contact the Consulate over here. .... :)
Congratulations! Haven't done a Fulbright, but we have spent a number of years living abroad. Paperwork is always a pain, though.

BTW, I always blame Bill Gates for spelling or usage errors, myself; I, two, due no how too spel.
 

Grammarhero

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This won't happen because they would have to re-write EVERYBODY'S contract and all of the each resort's legal documents. And this could only happen after a vote of all the members, if at all.

While I like having new posters on the forum, it is always a good idea for them to read through the old threads to have some historical or institutional memory. Especially before you are positioning yourself as an expert. Without this, you can give out mis-information or dredge up posits or arguments that have been fought, dismissed or discussed in the past...sometimes ad nauseum. It is also a good idea to get the "feel" for the forum and to know who the respected posters are and who is not respected. Aim to join the respected and wise.

It is my hope that my fellow Ohioan, dgalati, and our new poster SNA27 can take some time to read more than they post on the forum as to avoid being irritating and being put on peoples' "ignore" list. People are busy. Most here love their timeshares. Most are also looking to stretch their points or add resale or PIC. And I hope that I am not too bold as to suggest that most of us really do not want Wyndham employees, especially those in sales, as active members of our forum. I've seen how the tone changes on the various Facebook groups when they are involved. I really don't think that it adds truth to our discussions. And I say this with over 10 years of experience with Wyndham.

And, SNA27, without resale owners Wyndham would be in big trouble. Please stop your tirade against resale owners. One of the aims of TUG is to save people from spending too much on their timeshare by buying resale. Without the option to sell a deed, people would dump their ownerships and then MFs would go unpaid. Resale owners help out those who want to exit and relieve themselves of their MFs. And they help Wyndham by continuing to pay MFs and thus keeping costs down. And when I want to divest of my ownership, I certainly do NOT want to give my deeds back to Wyndham. I would much rather help out a young family or a bargain hunter with their foray into timesharing--and whether I choose to sell it for a reduced price or give it away is my choice.
@SNA27 is an asset to this forum. Please don’t personally attack him anymore, though it might not mean much coming from me.

Initially, @SNA27 and I disliked each other. I called him a Wyndham shill and tool. He called me a greedy parasite and shady TS-system gamer. He apologized for his behavior. However, we grew to like and respect one another.

If there’s anybody that wouldn’t forgive @SNA27, it would be I. But I have. He gives good Wyndham travel and TS tips, or at least I think so as a relative newbie. It is an elitist view that anyone who isn’t an expert shouldn’t post. How are we supposed to become experts unless we post and are corrected gently?

He started a poll that is sticky-worthy. He also gives good insight on how Wyndham folks are thinking. I used to think nearly all Wyndham salespeople were slimy liars.
@SNA27 helped me moderate this view. He knows a Wyndham TS salesman with a wife dealing with dementia. It never occurred to me that Wyndham TS salespeople were real people, although likely ethically compromised.

It’s New Years. Let bygones be bygones. And we can welcome new tuggers who have close relationships with Wyndham salespeople. I’ve always been a fan of at least hearing, though not necessarily considering, other perspectives. Otherwise, we would be in “tunnel vision.”

Back to my TUG Wyndham self-exile, as I’m not a Wyndham expert despite having 430k pts, so I supposedly should have no business posting here.
 
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SNA27

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Some people seem to think anonymity is a license for bad manners and rude behavior! They indulge in personal attacks instead of sticking to the topic at hand! Such attacks are even LIKED! Smh!

Length of time on this BBS obviously isn't a measure of expertise just as the length of a beard isn't the measure of wisdom!
How does one post here for so long and still haven't even learned how to use the GRAMMARLY help or to edit your post to correct spelling errors! :ponder:
 

Grammarhero

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SNA27

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@SNA27 is an asset to this forum. Please don’t personally attack him anymore, though it might not mean much coming from me.

Initially, @SNA27 and I disliked each other. I called him a Wyndham shill and tool. He called me a greedy parasite and shady TS-system gamer. He apologized for his behavior. However, we grew to like and respect one another.

If there’s anybody that wouldn’t forgive @SNA27, it would be I. But I have. He gives good Wyndham travel and TS tips, or at least I think so as a relative newbie. It is an elitist view that anyone who isn’t an expert shouldn’t post. How are we supposed to become experts unless we post and are corrected gently?

He started a poll that is sticky-worthy. He also gives good insight on how Wyndham folks are thinking. I used to think nearly all Wyndham salespeople were slimy liars.
@SNA27 helped me moderate this view. He knows a Wyndham TS salesman with a wife dealing with dementia. It never occurred to me that Wyndham TS salespeople were real people, although likely ethically compromised.

It’s New Years. Let bygones be bygones. And we can welcome new tuggers who have close relationships with Wyndham salespeople.

Back to my TUG Wyndham self-exile, as I’m not a Wyndham expert despite having 430k pts, so I supposedly should have no business posting here.
Thank you for your support!
I salute your 6-month infanthood on this forum and non-expert status it confers upon you! I am still crawling around making baby sounds annoying 10-year-old experts! ;)

But, I wish you would not jump to easy conclusions about the ethical compromise of an individual based on their occupational group!
They are real people. Individuals with their own circumstances! PERIOD. No need to dilute such recognition with pejorative qualifiers!
Lawyers, as a group, don't have a stellar reputation in general and especially when it comes to ethics! Please lock up those stones until you move from the glasshouse! haha! :D
 
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HitchHiker71

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Some people seem to think anonymity is a license for bad manners and rude behavior! They indulge in personal attacks instead of sticking to the topic at hand! Such attacks are even LIKED! Smh!

Length of time on this BBS obviously isn't a measure of expertise just as the length of a beard isn't the measure of wisdom!
How does one post here for so long and still haven't even learned how to use the GRAMMARLY help or to edit your post to correct spelling errors! :ponder:
Everyone has their respective strengths and weaknesses. Some folks care a lot about spelling and some don’t. Some are big picture idealist visionaries and some excel with tasks and detail orientation. Both add value just in different manners.

Always seek first to understand before being understood - and practice patience, humility and grace when responding. You have already both apologized to one another so I will humbly suggest practicing restraint and choosing not to further escalate back and forth. I know this is hard to put into practice when emotionally invested. We all have our weak moments, myself included. Mea Culpa moment here gents.


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HitchHiker71

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Thank you for your support!
I salute your 6-month infanthood on this forum and non-expert status it confers upon you! I am still crawling around making baby sounds annoying 10-year-old experts! ;)

But, I wish you would not jump to easy conclusions about the ethical compromise of an individual based on their occupational group!
They are real people. Individuals with their own circumstances! PERIOD. No need to take dilute such recognition with pejorative qualifiers!
Lawyers, as a group, don't have a stellar reputation in general and especially when it comes to ethics! Please lock up those stones until you move from the glasshouse! haha! :D
It’s also worth mentioning that while the sales executives at Wyndham practice plausible deniability with respect to the less than stellar sales practices, they are very aware of and in some cases even encourage the questionable sales practices employed by Wyndham sales reps. It’s not like there’s a lack of awareness of the questionable sales practices - Wyndham’s sales executives are by definition providing tacit approval by turning a blind eye in favor of revenue capture at the end of the day.

Every now and again they employ people to covertly record sales reps in action and then periodically let sales reps go to employ a sort of containment policy to keep the sales staff in check just enough to keep things from flying out out of control and inviting class action lawsuits from all over the country. It is all very strategic and very much intentional in other words.

On some level I can understand the frustration expressed about lack of experience. I honestly don’t know what folks here think about me, but I’ve only been around since July 2018 timeframe myself and while I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable, in many circumstances I’ve found that assumptions I’ve made and questions I’ve asked have been answered many many times in past forum posts had I simply made the effort to search them out and spend the time to perform appropriate due diligence. One of the reasons I don’t post as much as I did early on is because I’m practicing restraint and learning from other long time members who, I think, oftentimes forgo replying on some threads to provide corrective advice because it just takes too much time and effort, especially when they have repeatedly done so for the exact same topics in the past. This is not to excuse accusatory replies to be clear, I’m simply trying to best understand where each forum member is coming from.


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HitchHiker71

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Ok, let me ask you this! What is there to LIKE about @schoolmarm post' [Modified]
I liked her post because it contributes to the healthy back and forth, regardless how you or anyone else may feel about it. It also reminded me directly of what I outlined and reinforced - which is that I’ve been guilty of not taking the time to search for answers and to be patient and to learn from other long time Wyndham and forum members.

Context is everything. I didn’t “like” the post because of anything to do with you in other words - but that is the potential false assumption and personal interpretation you chose to embrace. Seek first to understand before being understood. I’m not in your head and you are not in my head. The internet is largely tone deaf - and considering up to 90% of direct human interactions when face to face consist of nonverbal communications - the written word leaves a lot open to false interpretations and assumptions.

I’d also humbly submit that your explicit overuse of exclamation points needs to be scaled way back. Exclamation points used on Internet forums are widely known to portray escalation, charged emotion, along with aggression and overt anger when used repeatedly in almost every sentence. I highly doubt you intend your posts to come across this way - and I personally am not interpreting your posts in this manner - but many other people will - and this alone could explain why people are prone to reacting to your posts in the manner that I’ve repeatedly observed. Just some constructive food for thought from one forum member to another.


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schoolmarm

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Ok, let me ask you this! What is there to LIKE about @schoolmarm's personal attacks against me or her superficial inferences about my person or my oozing privilege! I am not the topic and she made it so! I am sure it violates the BBS rules! And she repeated her offense! And it was LIKED again! I wish you had admonished her first post on this thread!
SNA27 please read carefully....I was talking about how POSTS can be misread because of tone. I gave an example as to how the tagline in your profile suggests that CWA and RESALE are lower and not of the privilege that YOU hold. If I were attacking YOU, I would have said SNA27 is a(n) (fill in the blank). There was NO name calling in my post, but perhaps my post is a good example as to how the tone of the post can be lost or misinterpreted because of the text basis. Just try to re-read your posts and you should be able to see it. In one of your posts you encouraged someone who was considering buying resale not to with something like "Why shop at Goodwill when you can shop at Macys" or something like that. If it was meant to be humorous it missed the mark. It also didn't really help the OP. I am trying to help you...and I "get" lawyers. My ex is a big-time lawyer and my current other half is a law professor.

Those who know me know that I post with humor, and truly do not harbor ill will towards anyone. I aim to be wise and to not stir the pot, but truly, I was trying to be gentle in letting you know how you and a couple of others are coming across. However, I may have to re-think that considering the bashing that I have gotten.

Hitchhiker's post is right on the mark. And Hitchhiker, (and also CByrne--maybe I've spelled that wrong) I am really impressed at how well you have integrated into the fora. I hope that I can soon say that about others.
 
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cbyrne1174

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SNA27 please read carefully....I was talking about how POSTS can be misread because of tone. I gave an example as to how the tagline in your profile suggests that CWA and RESALE are lower and not of the privilege that YOU hold. If I were attacking YOU, I would have said SNA27 is a(n) (fill in the blank). There was NO name calling in my post, but perhaps my post is a good example as to how the tone of the post can be lost or misinterpreted because of the text basis. Just try to re-read your posts and you should be able to see it. In one of your posts you encouraged someone who was considering buying resale not to with something like "Why shop at Goodwill when you can shop at Macys" or something like that. If it was meant to be humorous it missed the mark. It also didn't really help the OP. I am trying to help you...and I "get" lawyers. My ex is a big-time lawyer and my current other half is a law professor.

Those who know me know that I post with humor, and truly do not harbor ill will towards anyone. I aim to be wise and to not stir the pot, but truly, I was trying to be gentle in letting you know how you and a couple of others are coming across. However, I may have to re-think that considering the bashing that I have gotten.

Hitchhiker's post is right on the mark. And Hitchhiker, (and also CByrne--maybe I've spelled that wrong) I am really impressed at how well you have integrated into the fora. I hope that I can soon say that about others.
I proudly shop at Good Will for myself and my daughter. I can proudly say that I dont spend more than $100 a year on clothes. I've seen family members make around 160k a year one year and 0 the next 7 years because of the 2008 recession and being "overqualified" and losing all their retirement because they owned too expensive of a house that they couldn't get rid of from the market crash. I've seen people get cancer and lose everything just to stay alive.

Everyone has their own opinion on luxury spending. I've personally just have had a lot of bad luck things happen to my family: layoffs, a missed miscarriage etc and I've learned to not have any expectations so I dont feel disappointment. If you spend more money on something, youd expect more out of it, but sometimes that expectation just leads to disappointment.
 
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