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What is Fractional Ownership at Sheraton Buganvilias?

elf.elf.baby

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Hi. I'm an owner at Buganvilias, and happen to be there now. I never go to any of the presentations, even for the free breakfast, but the latest gossip is both interesting and troubling.

Since many of the fixed time building contracts are coming due in the next several years, a new plan called Fractional Ownership is being offered. You will sell them your fixed time weeks, and buy a fractional ownership. The order of events is not necessarily as I described it, and no one knows what the term is, unit, or anything at all in detail. It sounds like a real scam. But no one, even intelligent people who have been there, can describe it any better. One thing they do say is that the fixed time owners are not at risk; ie Sheraton, or La Familia Garcia is not planning to abrogate all the contracts.

Anybody have any 'information' (to use the street vernacular)??

Thank you.
 

Daverock

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My understanding of Fractional ownership is that the buyer of same owns multiple weeks i.e. a month, 3months etc. What they are doing is bundeling several fixed weeks into Fractional ownership. A fraction of the year.
 

elf.elf.baby

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after the owners' update... the (not-so) new program

Well, it seemed wise to go to an owners' update.

First, it appears that since the first few years of original fixed time contracts are only now approaching expiration, and since the representative said they do still offer re-purchase to the owner (ah, but at what price?), there is effectively no fixed time inventory to sell as fractional ownership.

Sadly, this was the last thing we were able to force out of the salesman. 2.5 hours (not 90 minutes) wasted. Still, useful, since at least they say there is no possibility whatsoever of abrogation/cancellation/etc/etc/etc of the existing fixed time contracts.

What is fractional ownership? Why, it's a 4 week package of floating time in the tower! Minimum 4 weeks. It's apparently just a gimmick. As to the future new program, for when they have lots of inventory in fixed time units (or, the units formerly sold as fixed time, who knows) it would be, simply according to availability, whatever unit/week(s) etc you want, at whatever price you can negotiate. Sound familiar? Yeah, it sounds like a new building with an old refrain, but it's not new; (wow is it not new).

But get this! They are offering what they call an annuity (but is NOT, as my b-school background, admittedly decades ago, recalls it). You pay 65,000 or 100,000 USD (his anecdotes varied) up front to purchase, and they promise to pay you 5.75% annually, on that price. That would be an annuity, if they paid you annually, in the traditional annuity. But they don't actually pay you. They just promise to pay you, and then DO pay you at the end of the 25 or 30 year term. Or, they pay your heirs. Hah. Or possibly the people you've sold the package to 10 years down the road. NONE of these little details are nailed down. (All this was before he figured out that we were fixed time owners. He obviously did not have knowlege of the property, or even work for them. This jives with what a friend said who was told there were two or three different companies involved in this new program, none of whom, of course, were legally obliged to honor the others' promises. It is she who was shown a new program purchase contract to sign, but, the SALES contract of her parents' (age 90) two units,back to Buganv, at a quoted fine fine price, was to follow. She declined that order of events. 10 days later, no sales contract has appeared. Scam. One of her parents' units is only 3 years into the contract because, she, the voice of reason, being absent, they were told they could trade in one property for another, but ended up having purchased a new one. They are not senile. They were scammed. Against either Mexican law or Buganvilias policy, that people above age 85 (still awfully old) are not sales candidates. )

But I digress. Another aspect of the sales pitch is how you can rent your unit for a profit. Is this new? No. Do they handle that for you, like some places? Uh, NO, sir.

I spoke to floating time friends, who attended the same presentation. The husband is 75, and they were told they were too old to participate. At least they got breakfast. Maybe progress in the age department has been made.

Also, watch out for some crazy thing about which presentation you attend, or say you attend. Though each, (8:45, 11, and 12??) includes food, and full freebie benefits, the women who hand out the freebie coupons are very suspicious about did you attend a 45 minute or 90 minute session. I just looked at her and said, truthfully, that I had been there for 2.5 hours. They say there are no more 2-3day free stays as in previous years, but a familiar looking pad of Vacation Certificates is sitting on the counter. I believe, as in all things, persistence and insistence and polite refusal to compromise will get you far.

And, the final insult? The TOWEL booths are now partially manned by a hawker.

SO, apparently, the bottom line is that currently, they want floating time (tower) owners to trade in their unit(s) at some 'equity' value, and buy larger chunks, for big bucks. Other unstated aspects are the RCI effect or HSI membership effect, which they are still selling. And, since I cannot comprehend how there could be any floating time contracts left to sell, much less chunks of 4 weeks, the fact that 3/4 of these presentations are for potential new owners (not current), it sounds to me like though RCI has an overbooking restriction rule (overselling, but the airline analogy is interesting), they have just GOT to be ignoring it. Who knows.

But the good news is, it was 3 days before I saw my first ant in my unit. (well, 2.5). The bad news is it was on the kitchen island, not the more normally affected areas, such as bathrooms or kitchen wall counter.

I sound completely disillusioned, I know. However, I still love the place. Write me thru this bbs if you want more info.
 

Sibarra

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I suggest to see a another places in Puerto Vallarta, actually the Nuevo Vallarta area is gowing, and they have on there a lot of fractional properties.

Ad removed
 
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elf.elf.baby

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I spoke to perfectly intelligent perfectly sane people today who bought something at Buganv last year. It's a floating time, every-other-year unit in the tower, one week. But no, they inSISted, it's not a timeshare. It's Fractional Ownership. What's the difference? They can reserve for any week except Christmastime. They obviously, and sadly, had absolutely not one iota of knowledge about timeshares, but maybe a prejudice against the term, but Fractional Ownership made the sale. They got two free years of HSI and also two of RCI membership with it. But nope, it's not a timeshare. ("What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.")

Ah, more scamming; others who went to the presentation today were told by the scamman that Buganvilias no longer participated with RCI, seemingly an outright lie.

And someone else was told that the 5.75% for 25 years that they won't live long enough to collect wasn't actually going to be the whole thing, just 75% of it.
 

pittle

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Sounds like a timeshare to me! Like you say - they can call it whatever they want. I guess "fractional" is the new term that many resorts are using now so they do not use the word timeshare - especially for multiple weeks. But, at the last 3 presentations we went to, they were willing to go with 1 week and still called it fractional. Not much difference in owning 1/52nd of a condo and 1 week in my opinion. Both are "fractions" of the whole.

We went to a couple of presentations in PV and "fractional" and "Residence Club" seemed to be the new terminology. I also noticed both of these words on billboards all around in PV & NV.
 
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