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What happens when Deeds Expire?

drepublic

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I've thought about DVC for a long time...I thought that if I were to own anywhere it would be a resale contract at Beach Club (for the pools and location), but what happens 2042 when the Deeds Expire?

Another strategy I thought about is buying the lowest cost/point DVC resale contract I could find to stay in 1 Bedroom for a week, but how easy is it to book other 1 Bedroom's at 7 months out?

How easy it it to book Aulani 7 months out at Thanksgiving/Christmas/Springs Break or the summer??
 

TheHolleys87

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The short and simple answer to the expiration question is that the owners at that resort are no longer owners. They can’t use those points to make DVC reservations, and they don’t pay MFs for those points. The property reverts to Disney, who can do what they want with it, including creating an entirely new points chart and selling points there as if it were an entirely new resort.

No one knows the details, such as whether there will be restrictions on banking and borrowing for some period of time before expiration, whether other owners will be restricted from swapping in for some period of time, whether points received at start of UY during the calendar year before will be pro-rated (for instance, our UY begins September 1 - on September 1, 2041 will we receive our full 300 points or only 5/12 of 300, to be used by January 31, 2042?), etc.

Re your other question re availability, 1 bedrooms have tended to be the last to book, so easier to swap into at 7 months than studios and even 2 bedrooms. However it has become more difficult to swap as the number of owners increases, so the general advice is to buy where you wouldn’t mind staying if you couldn’t swap out.

However, the 2021 points charts show a reallocation of points across seasons, and many think that it’s just the first in a multi-year process of reallocation to reduce demand at some seasons (particularly “Fall Frenzy”) and shift to others thereby evening out demand.

This thread from DISboards is a look-back at availability over the last few years, and you might find it helpful. https://www.disboards.com/threads/predicted-dvc-booking-patterns-studios-1-bd-2-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/
 

Dean

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I've thought about DVC for a long time...I thought that if I were to own anywhere it would be a resale contract at Beach Club (for the pools and location), but what happens 2042 when the Deeds Expire?

Another strategy I thought about is buying the lowest cost/point DVC resale contract I could find to stay in 1 Bedroom for a week, but how easy is it to book other 1 Bedroom's at 7 months out?

How easy it it to book Aulani 7 months out at Thanksgiving/Christmas/Springs Break or the summer??
As noted, the resorts will revert back to DVD (DVC developer). If they are extended, DVC's track record would suggest it'll be at a very high cost and if the OKW extension is any indication, it'll be over priced retail like the new resorts are.

1 BR have historically been the easiest to reserve and the worst value. Contractually they have an obligation to even out demand and rebalance the points, one they've been lax in over the years. I do believe they are catching up in that area.

As for buying elsewhere and booking at 7 months, it's hit or miss. I can't speak to availability at 7 months for Aulani but those are very busy times, esp Easter and Xmas. Personally I'm OK with any of the resorts for WDW so owning at say SSR and booking elsewhere would be something I would be comfortable with but others may not be. That said we currently own BWV & AKV having sold off our OKW points years ago. IMO BCV is one of the lowest values in terms of cost across WDW. It's a higher cost compared to most, expires in 2042 & is more points overall than BWV with no views to speak of. But for someone set on staying there most trips and can afford it (pay cash), I don't think it's worth buying something cheaper trying to get there every time.
 

heathpack

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For many years, I think your strategy of buying a less expensive resort and trading into a more expensive resort would have worked ok. In fact, this was a huge benefit of the system as DVC sold it.

But, in addition to Dean’s observation that more DVC members = more internal trading = less availability at popular resorts, there is another factor which I think should cause one to think hard before adopting this strategy- namely, DVC has signaled recently that they are exploring changes to the internal trading paradigm. The resale restriction on Riveria is the change I’m referring to, but if that’s a success we should expect additional changes if the future.

None of us can know what those changes might be, but realize that all the “grandfathering” of benefits could stop, or be changed in the future, or there could be unforeseen restrictions on internal trading.

Due to this uncertainty, I think more than ever you should buy at a DVC resort you’d be happy to stay at most of the time, if push came to shove. It will certainly make booking your stays easier, even if no further restrictions on internal trading with resales are ever put in place.
 

drepublic

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Due to this uncertainty, I think more than ever you should buy at a DVC resort you’d be happy to stay at most of the time, if push came to shove. It will certainly make booking your stays easier, even if no further restrictions on internal trading with resales are ever put in place.

I’m limited like many to kids school schedules so I’ll be traveling at peak times. I ran I to this with Wyndham at Clearwater and now own there to get what I want when I want it, but I have to book it 13 months out to get what I want for my kids Spring Break as there are only 100 units or so.

I just like the location and pools of Beachclub and regret not spending a few days their at just the resort in my last trip. My kids will get Season Passes to Disney for Christmas and we own at Bonnet Creek and can get great large multi bedrooms but there’s something to be said for stumbling back to your Beachclub room after a few drinks at Epcot...and the pools...we’re a Beach and Waterpark family.

I just might be better off for the long term networking with a Beachclub owner who really likes this Sunset view at Clearwater or who could rent me points...as I’m not to fond of that expiration date...but hell...I may be too old to care t that point...I’m 39.

I think of Timeshare’s like cars that have zero value when done with them...just creating memories in the meantime.

0f4bbed0596f5b4595dfb730789a26e4.jpg



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TheHolleys87

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I’m limited like many to kids school schedules so I’ll be traveling at peak times. I ran I to this with Wyndham at Clearwater and now own there to get what I want when I want it, but I have to book it 13 months out to get what I want for my kids Spring Break as there are only 100 units or so.

I just like the location and pools of Beachclub and regret not spending a few days their at just the resort in my last trip. My kids will get Season Passes to Disney for Christmas and we own at Bonnet Creek and can get great large multi bedrooms but there’s something to be said for stumbling back to your Beachclub room after a few drinks at Epcot...and the pools...we’re a Beach and Waterpark family.

I just might be better off for the long term networking with a Beachclub owner who really likes this Sunset view at Clearwater or who could rent me points...as I’m not to fond of that expiration date...but hell...I may be too old to care t that point...I’m 39.

I think of Timeshare’s like cars that have zero value when done with them...just creating memories in the meantime.

0f4bbed0596f5b4595dfb730789a26e4.jpg



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Wow, your photo makes me wish we owned at BCV instead of BWV! I’d be tempted to swap!

Your idea of networking with a BCV owner is a good one. I’ve read a number of posts reporting mutually beneficial long term relationships between DVC owners and renters here and on the other boards I frequent.
 

drepublic

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Wow, your photo makes me wish we owned at BCV instead of BWV! I’d be tempted to swap!

Your idea of networking with a BCV owner is a good one. I’ve read a number of posts reporting mutually beneficial long term relationships between DVC owners and renters here and on the other boards I frequent.

Yeah I’d even come out on the wrong side of a reasonable deal at Beachclub...like 5 nights Sun-Friday 1 Bedroom Beachclub for 2 Bedroom Presidential at Wyndham Clearwater anytime of year Sun-Friday...as there is no “value season” at Clearwater. It’s always expensive.






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capjak

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The originals like Beach Club all expire in 22 years (2042). I own Beach Club and have decided to hold to expiration most likely as I will have grandchildren that will enjoy the location and in 22 years my kids will probably not want it and I will be 80 so will use other options at that point. If you will go every year or EOY for the next 22 years...just buy Beach club or rent and do not worry about expiration, assuming the cost is not an issue....

In regards to availability at 7 months, depending on time of year the "hot resorts" like BCV, BWV, Bay Lake, tend to have limited availability. Saratoga springs is almost always available in some room size and for now Aulani has good availability most times of the year.
 

capjak

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BCV 1 bedroom in magic season (spring break) for sunday-Friday is 189 points and can be rented by the owner (me) for $2650 to $3200 (MF of 1350), so that would be the value for a DVC owner. It would rent in a week to a few days (very liquid for a timeshare). Also Sun-Friday vs Frid/Sat point values have been adjusted by DVC such that there is not the huge premium there used to be as they found no one was booking weekends at the resorts so that has changed (only 5 point difference on Friday/Saturday nights).
 

ljmiii

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I've thought about DVC for a long time...I thought that if I were to own anywhere it would be a resale contract at Beach Club (for the pools and location), but what happens 2042 when the Deeds Expire?
Many years ago I bought resale at BCV for basically the same reasons - we loved the pools and the location and we needed to stay Christmas/President's/Easter weeks. That plus we *loved* our 3 generation visit to WDW in a 2BR, knew we wanted to stay at WDW year after year with or without the grandparents, and did NOT want to ever pay cash for a DVC villa again. Or stay with kids in a 'normal' Disney hotel room.

That said, over the past year I've sold all but 30 points of our BCV points. 1/31/2042 is coming like a freight train, we still have points at Bay Lake Tower, and I figure I can always rent a stay from an owner at BCV, Boardwalk, or even Riviera if we need one. So while I completely understand the attraction of BCV, I can't recommend buying there anymore unless you have the money to enjoy your ownership.

Another strategy I thought about is buying the lowest cost/point DVC resale contract I could find to stay in 1 Bedroom for a week, but how easy is it to book other 1 Bedroom's at 7 months out?
I can only tell you that we own at BLT because we were 'shut out' twice in our attempts to use our BCV points to stay at BLT during President's and Easter weeks. Even though everyone told us that 1BRs were easy to get if you booked at exactly 7 months out...a statement which is even less true today.

How easy it it to book Aulani 7 months out at Thanksgiving/Christmas/Springs Break or the summer??
Spring Break and Summer aren't that difficult for Aulani at 7 months - particularly for 1BRs. I haven't really heard much about Thanksgiving but Christmas is tough. That said, I'm sure the usage pattern for Aulani will change as it sells out (however slowly).
 

drepublic

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I just had an idea and this is sort of random but follow my logic here as I got this idea from DVC Owners in how they handle Universal Studios...the concept of "burning a room." I'm just thinking of applying this concept to Disney Value Resorts for 60 day fast pass bookings.

As mentioned earlier we are owners of Wyndham and owners at Bonnet Creek inside the Disney parks where we can book large Presidential Suites and 2 Bedrooms with ease. Even so...at Universal Studios there is a CLEAR advantage to stay in one of the express hotels in that your room key becomes the express pass...you'll just pay premium for the hotel room and give up a kitchen and so forth at your offsite resort....but you get the express pass that costs more than the hotel room for a family of 4. Now this past Thankgiving I had a Presidential Suite booked 7 nights through Thanksgiving Week.

At Universal Studios the Express Pass (hotel room key) works the day you check in and the day you check out and you can check in at 7 am while they hold your luggage...they just text you later in the day when your room is ready. Also you can get 5 rooms keys per room (each person's name goes on a room key).

You can EASILY do Universal studios in two days. So I found the cheapest express pass hotel room I could and booked one night in the middle of our Thanksgiving week. We packed a single overnight bag for all of us and left Bonnet Creek around 8 am just after 9 am we were inside Universal Studios parks while Loews Portifino Bay held our luggage. Around 4:30 pm I got a text that my room was ready...and I gave my family the option of just not staying there and going back to Bonnet Creek...but they opted for stay so we did...and the next morning we checked out while the hotel held our luggage and spent all day in the parks again.

Short story is we enjoyed the express pass for 2 days for the cost of 1 night's stay in an express hotel. Express pass at Universal Studios can cost >$100 per person per day so it's like getting expresses passes 1/2 off.

No applying this concept to Disney...my thinking is I could "burn a night" at a value hotel using my season pass discount just to book fast passes 60 days out, as that is a solid advantage of staying at a Disney hotel while I could enjoy the amenities of Bonnet Creek. I'm not to sure but you guys would know...would I be able to book fast passes for the day I check in and the day I check out?

I wouldn't mind paying $150 for a room getting Fast Passes at 60 days out for 2 days at the parks if I could keep my current ammenties at Bonnet Creek...or maybe just squeeze a night between Bonnet Creek stays just so I'm already in Orlando and can have two full days at the parks. I know I wouldn't have the Disney Transportation I'd rather drive to the parks and pay premium parking if I'm in a hurry than take Disney's transportation (or Bonnet Creeks transportation).
 

drepublic

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1/31/2042 is coming like a freight train, we still have points at Bay Lake Tower, and I figure I can always rent a stay from an owner at BCV, Boardwalk, or even Riviera if we need one. So while I completely understand the attraction of BCV, I can't recommend buying there anymore unless you have the money to enjoy your ownership.

Noted...and I'm considering renting from a BCV owner for 2020 while I have the Annual Pass.
 

PcflEZFlng

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Spring Break and Summer aren't that difficult for Aulani at 7 months - particularly for 1BRs.
My experience two years ago didn't reflect this. I tried to book a 1BR stay at Aulani in summer using my points (from BCV incidentally), and it was impossible. For weeks leading up to the time of my planned vacation, I watched all availability vanish at exactly the 7-month mark. I had to give up on it.

BTW, I sold my BCV contract this year partly due to the approaching expiration.
 

paxsarah

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I know I wouldn't have the Disney Transportation I'd rather drive to the parks and pay premium parking if I'm in a hurry than take Disney's transportation
You would have free regular parking at the parks on both your check-in and check-out days of your throwaway night. You would pay to park at the Disney resort, though.
 

TheHolleys87

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No applying this concept to Disney...my thinking is I could "burn a night" at a value hotel using my season pass discount just to book fast passes 60 days out, as that is a solid advantage of staying at a Disney hotel while I could enjoy the amenities of Bonnet Creek. I'm not to sure but you guys would know...would I be able to book fast passes for the day I check in and the day I check out?

Yes, you could book FPs 60 days out for day of check-in and day of check-out. Just don't cancel the value hotel reservation - if you do, Disney will cancel those FPs.

And if you want premium parking at the parks, you can just pay the difference between that and regular parking.
 

drepublic

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You would have free regular parking at the parks on both your check-in and check-out days of your throwaway night. You would pay to park at the Disney resort, though.

Would have I have to pay to park at Disney resort if I didn't park there? I can imagine the people who get the Disney Shuttle from the Airport and do not have a car to park. It seems like they wouldn't have to pay parking if they didn't actually park there.
 

drepublic

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Yes, you could book FPs 60 days out for day of check-in and day of check-out. Just don't cancel the value hotel reservation - if you do, Disney will cancel those FPs.

And if you want premium parking at the parks, you can just pay the difference between that and regular parking.

That's right I think I get free parking with my Annual Pass at the Parks. We frequent Disney Springs and like eating dinner there. I can see us just hitting 3 fast passes and a few rides with a character dinner for breakfast or lunch and then leaving the parks mid afternoon. We're not exactly "rope droppers" and though we have spend all day at the parks it does get exhausting multiple days.
 

cbyrne1174

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The way that fast passes are, it really isn't like express passes. They have categories. For example, you can either get one for Rocknroller coaster OR Slinky dog, but you can't have both 60 days out. You would be better off just waking up early and hitting the busiest ones at rope drop.
 

ljmiii

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Would have I have to pay to park at Disney resort if I didn't park there?
No. Many people stay at Disney Resorts without a car...they are used to it.
 

ljmiii

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I just had an idea...the concept of "burning a room.”
It is very much a Disney concept as well. 2 days of 60 day fastpasses for the price of a room. Or ideally a campsite - Fastpasses for up to 8 people for 2 days for a very attractive price.
 

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Would have I have to pay to park at Disney resort if I didn't park there? I can imagine the people who get the Disney Shuttle from the Airport and do not have a car to park. It seems like they wouldn't have to pay parking if they didn't actually park there.

A way to ensure that you wouldn't have to would be to book your throwaway night at the campsites at Fort Wilderness, rather than a value resort - but only if you really didn't plan to sleep there.

If you booked a value and actually drove to the hotel, they would have no way to know that you weren't going to park there overnight. And if you booked a value but never stepped foot on the hotel property, then there's no reason not to just get a campsite instead, since they're cheaper and offer the same benefits (2 days of 60-day fastpasses, 2 days of free parks parking, magic bands for your party).
 

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I know several people that use DVC for a studio while staying off site to get fast passes, the dining plan, parking and for a place to take a rest/swim.
 

TheHolleys87

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Re parking at the value resort: people have reported being charged for parking when they don't have a car and not being charged when they do have a car. Disney is good about removing charges for parking when notified that the guest didn't have a car.
 

drepublic

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And if you booked a value but never stepped foot on the hotel property, then there's no reason not to just get a campsite instead, since they're cheaper and offer the same benefits (2 days of 60-day fastpasses, 2 days of free parks parking, magic bands for your party).

This may be the way to go right here... We have magic bands so I'm wondering if check in is automatic or do I have to physically drive to campsite to check in?

I can see my family doing Disney a few days in the middle of a week long stay at Bonnet Creek Presidential rooms where we are already in Orlando and can just head straight to the parks after checking in the the campsite (maybe remotely?) or value hotel booked with Disney Annual Pass discount.

If I pony up and physically stay at a Disney resort I might just rent from a DVC owner and it would be to enjoy the resort pools or experiences or for location so more than likely Beachclub or Animal Kingdom and put it at the beginning or end of a Bonnet Creek Stay...like I'd love to be at Beachclub New Years Eve for example just to hit Epcot Fireworks and Restaurants and stumble back to the room.
 

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DVC stay or WDW hotel stay: day FP, extra magic hours, and free parking AT THE PARKS. So if you book a room, you get that for check in and check out. However, you can book at day 60 and day 59. But someone who is staying a week can pick up those FP at your day 67 because of the length of stay. So FoP etc are still really tough to get. And what you can get, you can probably get at 30 days out.

As for DVC ownership: You can buy Gold AP as a non-Florida resident. I have a very small direct contract. I sold my resales, not because I wasn't grandfathered because I was, but because it is really difficult to book anything outside of your home resort. And then my kids started staying at the bigger units at Bonnet Creek, Star Island and Reunion and they don't want to stay four or five in a studio.
 
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