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What are Timeshares Obligated to do with your MF?

Delenn72

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Are timeshare companies obligated to carry out maintenance on the property if I am obligated to pay maintenance fees?

If they do not maintain the can I get out of my fees if they don't do what they are supposed to?

Is it different for different states/countries?
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Are timeshare companies obligated to carry out maintenance on the property if I am obligated to pay maintenance fees?

If they do not maintain the can I get out of my fees if they don't do what they are supposed to?

Is it different for different states/countries?
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Timeshares are controlled by a Homeowners Association, which is elected by all of the owners of the timeshare pursuant to the governing docs. The HOA sets the maintenance fees, not the management company. Most HOA's contract with management companies to manage the timeshare and pay them out of these dues. It's often a flat rate percentage of the dues as a management fee.

Now it is certainly the case that some of these management companies own enough of the resort and have enough voting rights such that they effectively control the HOA. However the HOA has a fiduciary duty to the resort and to collect only the dues it needs to maintain the resort and manage it.

The short answer to your question is, no, you can't get out of paying maintenance fees if you disagree with how those fees are being spent, but you can run for the HOA board, or you can complain to regulators if you suspect malfeasance.
 

LeslieDet

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Are timeshare companies obligated to carry out maintenance on the property if I am obligated to pay maintenance fees?

If they do not maintain the can I get out of my fees if they don't do what they are supposed to?

Is it different for different states/countries?
You did not indicate what you own, but for most mainstream timeshares, the timeshare BOD approves an annual budget that identifies where the money is allocated. Maintenance fees are not solely for "maintenance". They cover all operating expenses, things like utilities, insurance, taxes, repairs, bad debt, management fee, billing and collection, plus the reserves. Read your budget to see each and every category where money is spent. Capital costs come from reserves. Remodeling is done on a schedule approved by the BOD. When owners do not pay their annual MFs, then the HOA doesn't receive the funds required to operate per the budget. No, you cannot "get out of" your MFs so long as you are an owner. If you want out, then sell or otherwise dispose of the ownership. If you are concerned about how the annual budget it spent, then participate in the HOA meetings and communicate with your BOD.

Outside of the USA, it depends upon what you own. There are many timeshare types in Mexico that are structured such that you own a right to use for a certain number of years, and you pay a discounted rate to book the property, but you will not pay if you don't use. In my experience, those types never release a budget. Again, it really depends upon what it is you own.
 

chapjim

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Nice try!

You are obligated to pay maintenance fees (if you want to continue as an owner in good standing). Any complaint about lack of maintenance or upkeep should be raised with the HOA.
 

Delenn72

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It's single ownership by a private individual who owns several properties like this. I am still paying fees but have noticed this ongoing degradation...pool slide closed then pool closed then outdoor pool closed, year after year it worsens and other people are also complaining. There isn't a HOA in this case...was wondering if we could pressure him into getting the repairs done....
 

jp10558

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It's single ownership by a private individual who owns several properties like this. I am still paying fees but have noticed this ongoing degradation...pool slide closed then pool closed then outdoor pool closed, year after year it worsens and other people are also complaining. There isn't a HOA in this case...was wondering if we could pressure him into getting the repairs done....
I would think you have to look at the contracts and governing documents that you got or can ask for as part of your ownership. In general, it seems like you could complain to them, otherwise it may be that they have a lot of owners that walked away and defaulted on the MF and so the resort is in a death spiral. It could also be that the management may do a special assessment to bring things back up to snuff, but that's both an extra fee to the owners, and a chance for people to default there as well.
 

LeslieDet

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It's single ownership by a private individual who owns several properties like this. I am still paying fees but have noticed this ongoing degradation...pool slide closed then pool closed then outdoor pool closed, year after year it worsens and other people are also complaining. There isn't a HOA in this case...was wondering if we could pressure him into getting the repairs done....
Then you don't own a timeshare. I suggest you seek competent legal counsel.
 

theo

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It's single ownership by a private individual who owns several properties like this. I am still paying fees but have noticed this ongoing degradation...pool slide closed then pool closed then outdoor pool closed, year after year it worsens and other people are also complaining. There isn't a HOA in this case...was wondering if we could pressure him into getting the repairs done....
A timeshare property owned by a single individual is a very difficult concept for me to even comprehend or wrap my head around. Are there officially recorded CC&R's (Condominium Covenants and Restrictions) for this property that you (and the rest of the world) can examine? Does your deed (if you have one) make specific reference to the CC&R's first establishing the property as a interval ownership (timeshare) property? Is what you have perhaps just a RTU (right to use) contract, with no actual ownership? :shrug:

OP: I am quite baffled by what you describe. Are you at liberty to identify the property at issue, so that we might better understand whatever it is that you have? :shrug::ponder::shrug:
 
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LeslieDet

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A timeshare property owned by a single individual is a very difficult concept for me to even comprehend or wrap my head around. Are there officially recorded CC&R's (Condominium Covenants and Restrictions) for this property that you (and the rest of the world) can examine? Does your deed (if you have one) make specific reference to the CC&R's first establishing the property as ainterval ownership (timeshare) property?

I'm very puzzled by what you describe. Are you at liberty to identify the property at issue, so that we might better understand whatever it is that you own? :shrug::ponder::shrug:
If one person owns the entire property, then the OP doesn't have any "deed". It sounds like a recreation club type membership.
 

moonstone

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It's Living Water Resort and owned by Larry Law.
That is in Collingwood Ontario? I remember reading about problems there last summer. (I live less than an hour away)


~Diane
 

Delenn72

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Yes. He owns 3 or 4 and he is turning one into a retirement home. This is one across the road from there and the facilities are starting to fail all over the place.
 

davidvel

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Yes. He owns 3 or 4 and he is turning one into a retirement home. This is one across the road from there and the facilities are starting to fail all over the place.
Do you have any documentation of what you bought?
 

Passepartout

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It's Living Water Resort and owned by Larry Law.
I'm not familiar with Canadian or Provincial law, but there MUST be some agency that overlooks subletting of properties and the rights of paying tenants. You need legal representation. In the US, we'd call/write our State's Attorney General, but I don't know what the Canadian equivalent is.

Jim

P.S. My Attorney wife says that U.S. Attorneys General do not get into renter/landlord issues. @Delenn72 you need competent legal advice in your jurisdiction.
 
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Fido Chuckwagon

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This sounds like some kind of “right to use” scheme and not something that you actually own. It’s possible you may just be able to walk, but there needs to be a lot more information given. I agree with the advice to consult an attorney. This doesn’t sound like a timeshare in any kind of normal sense.
 

moonstone

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This doesn’t sound like a timeshare in any kind of normal sense.
I believe that part of it was sold as regular timeshares and some were sold as fractional ownership. https://www.livingwaterresorts.com/ It is a ski area at Collingwood, on Georgian Bay, about a 2 hour drive from Toronto. They and the other timeshares in the area are pushing the summer stays in recent years as more summer activities become available. Since we live fairly close there was heavy marketing done to local residents (could use as day use) probably 20-25 years ago. DH & I went over for their preview only for the free 2 night stay (a break from our kids -lol) with a couple of free meals. We already knew about resales then so we didnt buy. There are some units for sale on Redweek, SMTN and probably e-Bay.

It appears that many amenities closed during Covid and have never re-opened. There are numerous reviews complaining about that. Mr. Law has been trying to expand his resort and as you can see by this 2019 news article he wasnt getting very far with town council. https://www.collingwoodtoday.ca/local-news/living-waters-phase-4-expansion-fazes-councillors-1332297 As mentioned above he wants to turn a building or section of resort into a seniors retirement home.

As with the now defunct Horseshoe resort timeshare not too far away, the owners need to get legal help.


~Diane
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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I believe that part of it was sold as regular timeshares and some were sold as fractional ownership. https://www.livingwaterresorts.com/ It is a ski area at Collingwood, on Georgian Bay, about a 2 hour drive from Toronto. They and the other timeshares in the area are pushing the summer stays in recent years as more summer activities become available. Since we live fairly close there was heavy marketing done to local residents (could use as day use) probably 20-25 years ago. DH & I went over for their preview only for the free 2 night stay (a break from our kids -lol) with a couple of free meals. We already knew about resales then so we didnt buy. There are some units for sale on Redweek, SMTN and probably e-Bay.

It appears that many amenities closed during Covid and have never re-opened. There are numerous reviews complaining about that. Mr. Law has been trying to expand his resort and as you can see by this 2019 news article he wasnt getting very far with town council. https://www.collingwoodtoday.ca/local-news/living-waters-phase-4-expansion-fazes-councillors-1332297 As mentioned above he wants to turn a building or section of resort into a seniors retirement home.

As with the now defunct Horseshoe resort timeshare not too far away, the owners need to get legal help.


~Diane
How is it a timeshare if it is “owned” by an individual and there is no HOA? Or is this Law individual just the manager and there is an HOA?
 

Delenn72

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I believe that part of it was sold as regular timeshares and some were sold as fractional ownership. https://www.livingwaterresorts.com/ It is a ski area at Collingwood, on Georgian Bay, about a 2 hour drive from Toronto. They and the other timeshares in the area are pushing the summer stays in recent years as more summer activities become available. Since we live fairly close there was heavy marketing done to local residents (could use as day use) probably 20-25 years ago. DH & I went over for their preview only for the free 2 night stay (a break from our kids -lol) with a couple of free meals. We already knew about resales then so we didnt buy. There are some units for sale on Redweek, SMTN and probably e-Bay.

It appears that many amenities closed during Covid and have never re-opened. There are numerous reviews complaining about that. Mr. Law has been trying to expand his resort and as you can see by this 2019 news article he wasnt getting very far with town council. https://www.collingwoodtoday.ca/local-news/living-waters-phase-4-expansion-fazes-councillors-1332297 As mentioned above he wants to turn a building or section of resort into a seniors retirement home.

As with the now defunct Horseshoe resort timeshare not too far away, the owners need to get legal help.


~Diane
Thank you Diane. That is good to know. They do have a very heavy sell policy and we were totally unfamiliar with timeshares when we bought. We bought because we liked the place and the area but I can no longer travel due to an injury and so am now discovering all the info I should have looked into before we bought...gulp....
 

Passepartout

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Thank you Diane. That is good to know. They do have a very heavy sell policy and we were totally unfamiliar with timeshares when we bought. We bought because we liked the place and the area but I can no longer travel due to an injury and so am now discovering all the info I should have looked into before we bought...gulp....
Sorry your injury is bringing an end to your travels. What exactly did you get from the resort- or the sales team- or Mr. Law, that indicates that you actually BOUGHT something? Is there a deed? Or just an 'agreement' that for some funds, you are entitled to use some time at the resort?
 

Delenn72

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I have points... I think. I'm wondering about renting the weeks, but there are booking fees and other fees for someone else to use the time... It's a bit of a money grab...
 

Passepartout

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I have points... I think. I'm wondering about renting the weeks, but there are booking fees and other fees for someone else to use the time... It's a bit of a money grab...
Whose points? There are RCI Points, Wyndham points, Vistana points, it seems darn near every timeshare 'family' has points, and NONE of them are relatable to/with any other points. And yes, when an owner exchanges their points with another system, there are fees. There are ALWAYS fees. Some timeshare groups have no- or low- cost exchanges within their group, but some of the money grubbers even charge for that.

Back to our earlier suggestion: You need to sit down with legal representation along with whatever papers you have to determine what you really own, and what their responsibility is to maintain YOUR (if you are an owner) property, or if you are better off to make peace with that you were taken advantage of and stop chasing good money with more money.

Jim
 

moonstone

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How is it a timeshare if it is “owned” by an individual and there is no HOA? Or is this Law individual just the manager and there is an HOA?
Mr. Law is the owner of the property ( & many others in the area), since we are not owners I am not sure if there is an HOA or management company. The presentation we attended was so long ago I do not remember much about it, also we were not paying too much attention since we had no intention of buying.

~Diane
 
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