What am I missing about 5-night packages?

[Mamianka]

We are saving up towards free Delta 1st class to Paris - stay 5 nights - fly to Vienna - stay 5 nights - fly back to NY. If I did EITHER (both?) of those hotel stay as part of a package, the points to not seem to work out. at the level we are looking at - 180,00 points - minus 50,000 sent to Delta - leaves 130,000 - and if I do NOT do the package, I can get that same hotel, same dates, for 120,000. Why am I ten grand off? Is there a SKIM at work here? And each level, category hotel I check - same deal. This is why we chose to work both our Delta AMEX card for SkyMiles AND our Marriott black card for points - it seemed to cost less, AND give us more flexibility in scheduling (no certificate that expires, etc., must be updated.) So - what am I missing or doing wrong here? I mentioned before, doing it this way instead of the much-praised packages - and got no replies. Crickets. In another response (about the new Chase offer on a new Marriott black card) I alluded to this - I hope that I get some much-valued input here on this, please.

Mamianka

 

[Fasttr]

You are not imagining things. There is a skim on the 5 nights, but not on the 7 nights.

Or another way of looking at it....your airline points are not valued at a 1:1 ratio in the 5 night packages where they are in the 7 night packages.

 

[rthib]

You are not imagining things. There is a skim on the 5 nights, but not on the 7 nights.

Or another way of looking at it....your airline points are not valued at a 1:1 ratio in the 5 night packages where they are in the 7 night packages.

Actually, that is not technically true.
There is not much of a discount on airline points points. If you look at the package it is two pieces. Airline points and hotel. The hotel portion is deeply discounted. This can be confirmed if you ever upgrade/downgrade or return the hotel portion.

For instance the hotel portion of the 5 night package at a Category 8 cost 75,000 points (just checked my activity). So you are getting a discount off the full price of the hotel.


For your math, 50K miles to Delta would cost 140,000 points, plus 120,000 for hotel for a total of 260,000 is done separately vs 180,000 points for package.

With the package you hotel only costs you 40,000 points. (140,000 for air miles + 40,000 for hotel = 180,000 cost)

 

[Fasttr]

Actually, that is not technically true.
There is not much of a discount on airline points points. If you look at the package it is two pieces. Airline points and hotel. The hotel portion is deeply discounted. This can be confirmed if you ever upgrade/downgrade or return the hotel portion.

For instance the hotel portion of the 5 night package at a Category 8 cost 75,000 points (just checked my activity). So you are getting a discount off the full price of the hotel.


For your math, 50K miles to Delta would cost 140,000 points, plus 120,000 for hotel for a total of 260,000 is done separately vs 180,000 points for package.

With the package you hotel only costs you 40,000 points. (140,000 for air miles + 40,000 for hotel = 180,000 cost)

I have read this a few times and still can't grasp your math. Are you using insider info based on how MR "values" your points if you were to cancel your package?

Here is what my comment was referring to, purely using buy side valuations of what the package cost vs what I get assuming a 1:1 point conversion ratio for everything:

5 Night Category 6 Package with 50K Delta miles:
Redeem 4 nights get one free would get me 5 nights in Category 6 for 120K points
My Delta account gets 50K points
Total amount I would expect it to cost = 170K
Total amount it costs = 180K
=skim

7 Night Category 6 Package with 50K Delta miles:
Redeem 6 nights get one free would get me 7 nights in Category 6 for 180K points
My Delta account gets 50K
Total amount I would expect it to cost = 230K
Total amount it costs = 230K
=no skim

 

[BocaBoy]

Okay guys, here is the scoop: the reason the math does not work out exactly as you had expected is that when Marriott devalued their MR award structure a few years ago, they added this 5-night package (which did not exist before) for timeshare owners for the same total number of points they previously charged for a 7-night package. It is as simple as that. Not quite as good a per night deal as the 7-nidght packages, but still a major benefit because the airline miles are the big reason to get these packages.

 

[BocaBoy]

Actually, that is not technically true.
There is not much of a discount on airline points points. If you look at the package it is two pieces. Airline points and hotel. The hotel portion is deeply discounted. This can be confirmed if you ever upgrade/downgrade or return the hotel portion.

Actually, the airline miles is where the huge discounts are. You cannot look at the cost of the hotel portion as what you could get back by returning that portion. In the old days people got these travel packages and returned the hotel piece for their full value and kept the airline miles for 1 point per mile. Marriott put a stop to that by not giving you much back if you cancel. The airline portion cannot be returned so they had to recoup it from the hotel portion. This was explained by Marriott when they made this change. Seems complicated if you don't know the history, but pretty simple if you lived through these changes and used travel packages heavily before the change, as we did.

 

[rthib]

I have read this a few times and still can't grasp your math. Are you using insider info based on how MR "values" your points if you were to cancel your package?

Here is what my comment was referring to, purely using buy side valuations of what the package cost vs what I get assuming a 1:1 point conversion ratio for everything:

5 Night Category 6 Package with 50K Delta miles:
Redeem 4 nights get one free would get me 5 nights in Category 6 for 120K points
My Delta account gets 50K points
Total amount I would expect it to cost = 170K
Total amount it costs = 180K
=skim

7 Night Category 6 Package with 50K Delta miles:
Redeem 6 nights get one free would get me 7 nights in Category 6 for 180K points
My Delta account gets 50K
Total amount I would expect it to cost = 230K
Total amount it costs = 230K
=no skim

If you ask Marriott, they will tell you that you are getting a discount on the Hotel Portion. That is why they have other restrictions on it.

You can confirm that if you return week or you upgrade/downgrade. The week has a smaller cost.

I understand that is not how people view it, but that is how Marriott put it in their system.
(It shows up in your activity as "5 Night Partial Package Category # Hotels" and a value).
If you want to stay 7 days, the 5 day package is not a bargain, but as the OP schedule shows, buying a 5 day package is better if you just want 5 days.
There are also other quirks in the system as the costs are not consistent as you go up levels on 5 night, the discount is not as good.

For the OP he was assuming that you could transfer points 1:1.
So his math was way off.

 

[bazzap]

Okay guys, here is the scoop: the reason the math does not work out exactly as you had expected is that when Marriott devalued their MR award structure a few years ago, they added this 5-night package (which did not exist before) for timeshare owners for the same total number of points they previously charged for a 7-night package. It is as simple as that. Not quite as good a per night deal as the 7-nidght packages, but still a major benefit because the airline miles are the big reason to get these packages.

That is interesting.
I hadn't realised the 5 Night Travel Package was a relatively recent introduction.
I knew I had been using them for some time, so just checked back through my records and found I ordered one 4 1/2 years ago. I am not sure when they first started?

 

[Mamianka]

. . .

If you want to stay 7 days, the 5 day package is not a bargain, but as the OP schedule shows, buying a 5 day package is better if you just want 5 days.
There are also other quirks in the system as the costs are not consistent as you go up levels on 5 night, the discount is not as good.

For the OP he was assuming that you could transfer points 1:1.
So his math was way off.

OP here. I know that this is NOT 1:1 - since I stated that a MRP to worth about $0.0125, and on the various flights we are considering, SkyMiles versus cash, a SkyMile is worth about $0.035. Since we plan on doing TWO 5-night stay - one in Paris, one in Vienna, and booking the flight back and forth between the cities on our own, this avoids an open-jaw ticket, which I *think* is not allowable on all-SkyMiles - at least not for what we want to pay for it in Miles! Would be nice to do a week in each place - but 5 nights is what we are shooting for at this time. Now - I looked over the Chase Marriott deal - and this will not work as far as spending 3 grand *just* on them in 3 months; we are spending 50 grand a year at SkyMiles so that for each 25K, we get a bonus of 10K. It appears to be more to OUR situation to get a *wife card* (no respect to the other women here - you know what I mean - a second card, with the FEMALE name on it, and the male secondary. I was one of the FIRST women in Massachusetts in the Seventies to make a BIG HONKING DEAL about getting a credit in in MY own name - several places refused my ONLY because I was a married woman, and HIS name would not appear!!!); I have only to spend 1K in the same time frame, and get 50K in SkyMiles. We are about 10K from our second bonus - having put 25 plus 15 on the Delta SkyMiles so far - so redirecting $$ to a new Marriott card will make that tight - unless *somebody* is getting a nice diamond necklace for her birthday. We refuse to spend JUST to make points - this is all done on *house stuff*. So I think we will continue to SKIP the package - cashing it in would lose us more money (not like the old days - and we have had to cancel several vacations due to illness, etc. - not gonna risk that on an e-certificate). No skim, no worries about getting ALL our MRPs back - and FOR US, THIS TIME, this appears to be the better route to take. Objects in your mirror are closer than they seem, and YOUR mileage may vary. Thank for the other insights - they helped us solidify what we are doing. And timesharing is not the only way we vacation - just came back from a TAUCK cruise of the Danube - best vacation we have EVER taken, any time or place.

Thanks always for your input!

Mamianka

 

[rthib]

That is interesting.
I hadn't realised the 5 Night Travel Package was a relatively recent introduction.
I knew I had been using them for some time, so just checked back through my records and found I ordered one 4 1/2 years ago. I am not sure when they first started?

I think, 2009, though my first use of 5 night package was in 2010.

In 2009, the 7-night hotel portion was 75K for Catagory 6

 

[rthib]

so redirecting $$ to a new Marriott card will make that tight - unless *somebody* is getting a nice diamond necklace for her birthday.

Marriott card is rarely worth it unless it is Marriott spending.

And the travel package real value is at the higher end when you can do the 120,000 miles and get a discount on both miles and hotel.

To be honest other than United (for bonus) or SWA (for CP), the travel package is not as cool as it used to be.


Amex is a much better deal for Delta (and when they run specials also SPG).

If you stay a lot at Marriott, the chase is good for that. I only use my chase at Marriott, use my Amex everywhere else.


If you have status with Delta, check into SPG. You get SPG points for delta flights. When I flew out of MSP, those points were enough to get me a couple nights a year at Swan that I used at the start or end of my Orlando Marriott stays (to get Magic hours at Disney).
You can also top them off with Amex points (real Amex points, not the Delta Amex).
I had both, used Delta Amex for delta purchases and other Amex for everything else, since I could transfer to Delta for 1:1 (or back in the day, the bonus they gave) and use leftover to send to SPG.

If you have status with Marriott, that is another consideration.

I am a Marriott first,second but I now occasionally stray when it makes sense (Used some Hyatt points to stay at Hotel Hyatt for 5am international flight, things like that).

 

[SueDonJ]

That is interesting.
I hadn't realised the 5 Night Travel Package was a relatively recent introduction.
I knew I had been using them for some time, so just checked back through my records and found I ordered one 4 1/2 years ago. I am not sure when they first started?

They were announced in late 2008 to be effective 1/1/09, in conjunction with overall devaluation that made for very interesting reading on TUG: Major Changes in Marriott Rewards. One interesting thing in that thread is the brief mention of another MR Program devaluation that had happened prior, when the around-the-world packages - that long-timers here remember - had been discontinued.

 

[Fairwinds]

when the around-the-world packages - that long-timers here remember - had been discontinued.

Soooo...sad. Have not traded weeks for MRPs since.

 

[bazzap]

They were announced in late 2008 to be effective 1/1/09, in conjunction with overall devaluation that made for very interesting reading on TUG: Major Changes in Marriott Rewards. One interesting thing in that thread is the brief mention of another MR Program devaluation that had happened prior, when the around-the-world packages - that long-timers here remember - had been discontinued.

Thank you for confirming this Susan.
I am always amazed at how I can still learn new things here.
Although I read how 7 night MR Travel Packages are better value than 5 night ones, I have found the 5 night ones worked really well for our needs and we have had great value from our flights to Asia combined with the stays in Category 5 hotels there (which were really top quality hotels until recent hikes in categories) around our MVC stays.

 

[dioxide45]

Earlier this year I talked about the 5 night package disadvantage in this post in this thread. The higher the category you go the bigger hit you take. On a category 9, there is no free fifth night.

 

[dioxide45]

Actually, that is not technically true.
There is not much of a discount on airline points points. If you look at the package it is two pieces. Airline points and hotel. The hotel portion is deeply discounted. This can be confirmed if you ever upgrade/downgrade or return the hotel portion.

For instance the hotel portion of the 5 night package at a Category 8 cost 75,000 points (just checked my activity). So you are getting a discount off the full price of the hotel.


For your math, 50K miles to Delta would cost 140,000 points, plus 120,000 for hotel for a total of 260,000 is done separately vs 180,000 points for package.

With the package you hotel only costs you 40,000 points. (140,000 for air miles + 40,000 for hotel = 180,000 cost)

Sounds like getting to the same result just by using different math.

 

[dioxide45]

That is interesting.
I hadn't realised the 5 Night Travel Package was a relatively recent introduction.
I knew I had been using them for some time, so just checked back through my records and found I ordered one 4 1/2 years ago. I am not sure when they first started?

I think it was in early 2010 when Marriott made a rather large devaluation of their rewards program. The 5 night points chart is still accessed by a link titled "Program Changes" on my-vacationclub.com.