Westgate Planet Hollywood Towers

[Justme_92867]

Hi Everyone,

I need some advice here on a TS that I just put a deposit down for. I would like to have this be a good investment by renting out my timeshare every week for this upcoming development, with no expectation on price appreciation but rather as a rental income return on investment. Here are the facts:

1) Location: Westgate Planet Hollywood towers, High floor, front unit with full views of the strip (On the strip)
2) Size: 4 Bedrooms, can be split into self contained studio, 1 bedroom suite, and 2 bedrroms
3) Cost: 109,000
4) Fixed Week 52 (New Year's Week), Fixed Unit
5) Extremely nice furnishings (at least per the model unit that was shown)
6) Opening sometime in Spring/Summer 2009, my week would be end of 2009
7) Deeded by special warranty deed
8) Maint: 950/yr, plus ~200 for property tax

Questions:
1) I heard a lot of bad things about Westgate, am I setting myself up for kicking myself in the rear? I think I am still in my rescission period (as an adjunct question, is the rescission period in Nevada for business days or calendar days?)
2) What are the projected rents for this type of unit in New Years week (starting 2009). Mine modest (at least I think they are modest) projections are about 2K/day. Based on splitting the 4 bedroom into the studio, 1 bedroom suite, and 2 bedroom suite, and then looking at rental rates for 2008 rooms at 5 star hotels like Bellagio and Wynn, I estimate that I can get something like 350/nt, 650/nt, and 1000/nt for the units on New Year's week. For example, Bellagio and Wynn were something like 600-800 for a standard room on that week. Am I totally off or are those reasonable assumptions?
3) Do you guys think this could be a good rental or are there hidden things I haven't accounted for?

Thanks so much for everyone's help, I am a newbie to TS and to this forum!

 

[DeniseM]

Right now the rental market is depressed because of the economy AND the market is flooded with rentals because people can't afford to travel AND Las Vegas is overbuilt with timeshares, depressing the rental market there even more.

You should definitely rescind, do your homework, and buy on the resale market for a fraction of the cost. However, in this market, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy with the intention of renting for a profit.

BTW - you can't compare a private rental with the big hotels. You just aren't in the same league, nor can you compete with Bellagio and Wynn. I think expecting to get $2K a day is not reasonable at all...no matter what the timeshare salesman told you!

I can't comment on this particular resort, but in general, the top resorts are going for about 50% of the developer price, on the resale market, so it makes no sense to buy from the developer.

Rescind...you will be glad you did!

 

[timeos2]

Get out while you can!

Amen to what Denise wrote. Wastegate as an organization is not to be trusted. The assumptions you are making about demand & rental values are completely unrealistic. If it could really be operated & rented for those numbers (fees estimated too low while rents are exagerated by 2 to 4 times what you may get IF you found a renter) then THEY would rent it not let you profit. Rescind now or you will regret it and pay a steep price for a long time.

 

[dougp26364]

We own 4 timeshares in Vegas. Vegas is an exceptionally poor choice if you're wanting to rent for several reasons.

1. Most Vegas tourists only stay for a few nights. Timeshare reservations are often for a full week.

2. Even thought Westgate is attached to a resort with a casino, I don't think it will have a casino of it's own. Vegas tourist who rent like to step off an elevator and directly into a casino.

And the biggest one of all 3. You'll be competing in price with all the resorts who are now struggling to fill rooms. They can afford to slash rates and make up the difference on gaming, restaurants, retail and shows. You, on the other hand, must make a profit strictly on rental.

Westgate has a LOT that's not going right for it right now as a company. Try googling Westgate and see what comes up. TS salesmen will lie to make a sale and that includes trying to tell you that you'll make a profit renting out your timeshare. You won't.

Recsind this contract now. You obviously haven't done any homework and you made a very large purchase on the spur of the moment. I doubt you would buy a car or a house this way. Don't fall into the trap of buying a timeshare with plans to break even or make a profit renting it out.

EDIT: I just read that you paid $109,000 for one week? You're out of your mind if you really believe you'll turn a profit on this unit. I'll give you an example. 10 years ago we purchased a 2 bedroom unit at Polo Towers, the next year we purchased a second 2 bedroom unit in the same resort. Polo Towers is on the Las Vegas strip. Those two units cost us $34,9000 at the time. Today, if I were to resell them, they're worth between $2,000 and $6,000 TOTAL for both units.

Sure you can say Westgate is a better resort.......for now. Give it 10 or 20 years and see were it stands compared to the new resorts that will be built then. The best advice I can give you is to GET OUT NOW!

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Well, let's see how the numbers work on the resale market.

Using the current eBay resale market; for $109,000 you can buy approximately EIGHT three bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grande Chateau.

Using the current eBay resale market: for $109,000 you can buy approximately TWELVE two bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grand Chateau.

Granted, these examples aren't New Year's week, however as others have said, your dollar will go much further if you wait and buy resale.

Keep your hands in your pocket and save your money

 

[dougp26364]

Well, let's see how the numbers work on the resale market.

Using the current eBay resale market; for $109,000 you can buy approximately EIGHT three bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grande Chateau.

Using the current eBay resale market: for $109,000 you can buy approximately TWELVE two bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grand Chateau.

Granted, these examples aren't New Year's week, however as others have said, your dollar will go much further if you wait and buy resale.

Keep your hands in your pocket and save your money

If he was patient, for $109,000 he could buy 9,000 1 and 2 bedroom units at Polo Towers. I think there's maybe 300 units at Polo Towers. If that's close to accurate that would be 300 units times 52 weeks in a year or 15,600 unit weeks. Heck, if there were that many units available, he'd own greater than 50% of that resort, have control of the HOA and BOD and might even be able to make his own rules.

 

[gmarine]

The cost is ridiculous and from an investment standpoint it is terrible.
You could put the $109K in the bank and receive $5000 or so a year in interest. Better than your going to get for rent. Rescind, without question.

Oh, yeah, did I mention that WG is among the worst, if not the worst developer to deal with.?

 

[timeos2]

New high for low sales tatctics at Wastegate

As I think about it this line of sales moves Wastegate into the realm of the Mexican timeshare scams promising "rent your 5 weeks for big dollars if you can't use them". If they only offered the miserable warmed over food and watered down drinks of the "all inclusive" package Wastegate would be completely at their level. As it is they are worse but maybe they can make the climb up?

 

[PeelBoy]

Well, let's see how the numbers work on the resale market.

Using the current eBay resale market; for $109,000 you can buy approximately EIGHT three bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grande Chateau.

Using the current eBay resale market: for $109,000 you can buy approximately TWELVE two bedroom resale weeks at the Marriott Grand Chateau.

Granted, these examples aren't New Year's week, however as others have said, your dollar will go much further if you wait and buy resale.

Keep your hands in your pocket and save your money

I am sorry I can't agree with you. If everyone buys from ebay, who is going to build and buy new and better properties for us to exchange into? We need developers and their new developments.

After said that, tuggers are privileged with their knowledge and exchange of information, and the benefit is they take advantage of the system for same enjoyment at a fraction of the original cost.

I went to the Westgate presentation about a month ago. The model unit is terrific (the best I have ever seen) and the property will share the same ground with Planet Hollywood. On can step out and have easy access to the Casino without going outside.

Would I buy into Planet Hollywood by Westgate? Definitely, but I will wait till some "losers" (please accept my apology but the word is quite an accurate description if they buy direct from Westgate) become frustrated and dump their huge investments to ebay for like a thousand dollars.

 

[BocaBum99]

I would ask PerryM. He bought a penthouse there. He was really high on it a while ago.

My guess is he took a bath on this purchase. He probably lost more money on this one transaction than all of his other timeshare profits combined.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

If he was patient, for $109,000 he could buy 9,000 1 and 2 bedroom units at Polo Towers.....

Hey, but with the current "deal" there is only one maintenace fee!!

The cost is ridiculous .....You could put the $109K in the bank and receive $5000 or so a year in interest. Better than your going to get for rent. Rescind, without question.

Another great way to look at this aweful deal...
Run as fast as you can, and be glad that you posted your original question on TUG. Goodluck!

 

[UWSurfer]

You have a couple of interesting features with this week which makes me pause a bit:

4 bedroom
"Unit" made up of studio, 1 & 2 bdrm units which can be broken up.
new resort
middle of strip
New Years week

These are all very nice selling points and a little better package than your "average" timeshare. Still, you are looking for rental income and as has already been stated, the market in Vegas is flooded with rooms and timeshares, and as such rental rates are depressed in combination with the current economy.

HGVC Flamingo is one of the most popular because of it's location very near PH's. After ~ 15 years in existence, it's updating/renovating it's units with a special asessment levied on owners.

$109K is too much. You CAN buy a 3 bdrm/3 ba home in Las Vegas, 1,700 sq ft. within 3 miles of the strip for about that, with 52 weeks usage and probably a more reasonable prospect for rental income than a Vegas t/s.

As the others have already stated, rescind and don't waste time as you have a very short recission window upon which to act.

Do it today!

 

[Justme_92867]

Thanks and another question

Thanks for everyone's advice, even though its kind of scary.... A few follow up questions......

1) As far as the rental rates, do you think even the rental rate wont match the adjoining Planet Hollywood? From what I've seen, using Planet Hollywood rental rates (4* hotel) would give something like a 1100/night rental rate for the 4 bedroom suite (I broke it down into the studio, 1bedroom and 2 bedrooms) to compare. For example Planet Hollywood 2008 New Year's Week is renting out an average of 250/nt for a studio, 370 for a 1 bedroom suite, and I made the assumption that a 2 bedroom suite is about 100 more or 470, that comes out to 1090/nt. Multiply by 7 and that is about 8K for the year, minus 1 K for maint, and it's about 7K/year. Is there a huge mistake I am making there?

2) How do I sent a certified mail on Sunday? I signed the TS on a Tuesday, as I understand Rescission is 5 days, at first I assumed it was business days, but if its calendar days than does that mean I have to somehow rescind today (Sunday??). Rescission is supposed to be done by sending certified mail postmarked by the last day.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[DeniseM]

Thanks for everyone's advice, even though its kind of scary.... A few follow up questions......

1) As far as the rental rates, do you think even the rental rate wont match the adjoining Planet Hollywood? From what I've seen, using Planet Hollywood rental rates (4* hotel) would give something like a 1100/night rental rate for the 4 bedroom suite (I broke it down into the studio, 1bedroom and 2 bedrooms) to compare. For example Planet Hollywood 2008 New Year's Week is renting out an average of 250/nt for a studio, 370 for a 1 bedroom suite, and I made the assumption that a 2 bedroom suite is about 100 more or 470, that comes out to 1090/nt. Multiply by 7 and that is about 8K for the year, minus 1 K for maint, and it's about 7K/year. Is there a huge mistake I am making there?

Yes - you are still thinking that you can compete with corporate entities with a rental AND you are ignoring the terrible state of our economy! Forget what the timeshare sales people told you - it just isn't true!

2) How do I sent a certified mail on Sunday? I signed the TS on a Tuesday, as I understand Rescission is 5 days, at first I assumed it was business days, but if its calendar days than does that mean I have to somehow rescind today (Sunday??). Rescission is supposed to be done by sending certified mail postmarked by the last day.

Thanks again everyone!

Do you have a local private post office that is open on Sunday? Also, cover all the bases by sending a FAX, email, or whatever other form of mail you can get out today. Don't delay!

 

[m61376]

There are post offices in the LA area that are open on Sunday- do a Google search. By all means, draft and get a letter of rescission postmarked today. Too much money is involved to take any chance on this one.

After traveling to the post office, take your family out for a celebratory dinner- to celebrate all the money you just saved!

To answer your question about renting- like posted above, you can't compete with the corporations, who will do what they need to do in this economy to fill their casinos, including free/discounted rooms.

 

[tombo]

A room at Planet Hollywood is currently priced at $329 for New Years eve, it drops to $149 for New Year's Day, and then it drop to $99 for Fri the 2'nd, $99 for Sat the 3'rd, and down to $79 for Sunday the 4th. These prices will drop lower as occupancy levels remain low. Not only are the rooms at the casinos cheap, most people would rather stay in the casino where they don't have to leave to eat, drink or gamble. In addition the majority of people only sleep in their rooms when in Vegas, there are too many other things to see and do.

In good times the rental scenario you presented wouldn't work, in today's economy you might not rent any of your rooms at any price. I hope you rescinded in time.

 

[spatenfloot]

The rental rates shown on hotel websites for Vegas are often too high anyway. Most casinos promote heavily just to fill the rooms and they are having a lot of trouble doing that lately. I've gotten about 3 offers from the Venetian/Palazzo for free rooms in the past month. I'm not even a big gambler.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Too Rich For My Blood.

There apparently are folks out there who consider Planet Hollywood Towers to be The No. 1 Timeshare In The Whole USA.

Even so, I'd rescind pronto.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Bill4728]

Renting from an owner vs renting from the developer

One of things which this post questions is can you rent from about the same rates as the developer? The answer is a huge NO!!

The developer acts just like a hotel and can get much higher rental rates than a private owner. As an example for the first week of Jan 2009, in Newport Beach CA Marriott has a TS resort. Marriott rents out the villas there for $324/day ($2270/week), owners also rent out their weeks there and there are currently 4 offers to rent which they are asking about $1000/week ( or $142/day). So Marriott gets 120% more than an owner when renting out the same week!

You may be able to rent your TS for about 1/2 of what the developer rents rooms for but I wouldn't count on that.

 

[Ernie]

2) How do I sent a certified mail on Sunday? I signed the TS on a Tuesday, as I understand Rescission is 5 days, at first I assumed it was business days, but if its calendar days than does that mean I have to somehow rescind today (Sunday??). Rescission is supposed to be done by sending certified mail postmarked by the last day.

The info should be on the first page of your contract in BOLD about three quarters of the way down the page.

 

[dougp26364]

The info should be on the first page of your contract in BOLD about three quarters of the way down the page.

I wouldn't count on that. I had a co-worker that had the misfortune of buying a Westgate unit while in Gatlinburg. I got to her in time and she brought in her contract because she coudn't find the recsind information. She coudnl't find it because it WAS NOT there. I went over every single page of her contract and there was no mention of her right to recsind. We had to look up the laws in TN and had to look up Westgates corporate address.

She sent her letter to their corporate offices as well as the sales offices in Gatlinburg, TN. Westgate didn't give her any trouble once she got them the letter but, she really had to work to find the information and to locate addresses to send them.

 

[dougp26364]

I would ask PerryM. He bought a penthouse there. He was really high on it a while ago.

My guess is he took a bath on this purchase. He probably lost more money on this one transaction than all of his other timeshare profits combined.

Perry paid far less than what the OP paid. Even so, I'm still convinced he'll take a bath on his deal. Even if the economy hadn't gone south I still believe he'll take a bath on the deal, even though he owns a penthouse unit.

 

[ricoba]

We own a 2 Bedroom at the HGVC@the Hilton on Karen Street - It is also week 52/New Years week. While it is not the prime strip location like the Westgate, we only paid $23,000 and that was from Hilton directly.

I found TUG after we bought from Hilton and always regretted paying so much, but now I don't feel too bad, when I see someone else plunking down $109K.

Sorry to the OP, I don't mean to make light of your situation, but as others have said, rescind as soon as you can.

By the way, we have tried to rent our unit on more than one time and have not been that successful at doing so. Maybe you are better at marketing than me(that wouldn't be hard to be), but renting a TS isn't as easy as it sounds, at least not for us.

Good luck to you.

 

[roadtriper]

Justme, looks like you got some sound advise as to how to procede, did you decide to recind the contract? if so did you get it in time? I sure hope so...
I can't see you even finding the break even point on a $109K timeshare investment through renting, let alone realizing any ROI. RT

 

[Justme_92867]

Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone for your help - its a pretty amazing community we have here, as it seems everyone is really looking for everyone's best interest.

From all of your feedback, I decided to try and rescind on Sunday (when the post offices were closed). The contract clearly stated that to rescind I need to send a certified mail or telegram within 5 days. Since I signed on Tuesday, 5th calendar day is Sunday, and I sent a telegram and certified mail on Sunday that they will receive on Monday. Hopefully that will work; I called them Monday and today, and it seems like it shouldn't be a problem, but you never know until it goes through. Keep your fingers crossed for me! I did have to fend off a few phone calls from the salesperson though telling me what a great deal I was passing up.

BTW, since everyone here seems to be a TS owner, when (or what kind of numbers) do you think make a good TS deal?