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Westgate Nightmare need assistance

Unlucky2.1.2012

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So first off I would like to thank all those who participated in past threads steering the "newbie's" into the right direction. I was lucky enough to be able to do a little research "after the fact of signing" that I fell into the well pitched and glamorous deal with Westgate Resorts in Orlando. Hadn't I read some of the post about timeshare monsters and the act of rescinding and cancelling a major mistake, I would have never known to go through the proper steps in the allotted time.

So here is the story June 18, 2013, a quick breakfast, a 90 minute sales pitch and wa la six hours later I was a proud owner of my first timeshare interest. Another sucker fish on the line is what I felt days later. I looked back and felt that I was pressured by sales person after sales person after managers speaking with us telling me and my wife that it was going to be a great opportunity and that we would never get this opportunity again and that we could not think it overnight and we had to decide then and there. It all seemed and sounded great at the time. So we decided to go through with it.

Papers signed, signed so fast we didn't even get a chance to read them in detail, the closing officer rushing us in signing document after document. She gave us our contract and additional information in it sealed air tight envelope and told us we would never need to open this envelope and to "store it in a safe place" as the envelope states. That drew a flag and indicator to do a little research of my own, even though I had already signed the documents. A couple nights later I open the forbidden envelope after reading the post on this website on rescinding a contract. I was given ten days to rescind and was lucky enough to find this out in time and set the ball in motion in only three days sending my cancellation letter by USPS and requesting a return receipt.

I received a call from a lady from Westgate today informing me they had received my letter and tried to talk me into staying with Westgate by dropping the price of the timeshare and adding other lucrative deals, I stated that I was not interested very politely and that financially I could not afford it at this particular time period several times. She told me that I was breaching my contract and that I would need to go with the new deal or have legal actions taken. I told her that I was a member of the Armed Forces and I was going to take the contract to military lawyers to see what options I would have. She told me she was going to have to take it to the legal section and that she didn't know the legalities of the process. Wow! She was just another sales person, how are you going to tell someone their breaching a contract if they don't know for sure they are breaching a contract. I told her to send me drafts of the new deal as well as all the legalities on cancelling the timeshare so I could have lawyers scan through it. I am still awaiting the email.

So here is my question to the ones who might know,

The sales lady told me I was breaching the contract because we signed a promissory note and notarized the warranty deed on the spot and may I add that the owner block of the deed copy I have was still not signed, and that we were locked in and could not cancel. Suspicious I think.

Should I be worried that I am going to plunge into this money pit with no hopes of getting out, or am I in the clear and have nothing to worry about? Has anyone had a similar circumstance?
 

DeniseM

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She lied to you - stand by your guns and don't back down. The developer does not have the legal right to deny your right to rescind. Just make sure that you followed the rescinding instructions exactly.

I hope you did not verbally agree to drop the rescission?

AND WHAT EVER YOU DO - DON'T TALK TO THEM AGAIN!
 

vacationtime1

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Your screen name "Unlucky" is wrong; you are very fortunate to have rescinded in a timely fashion.

If you mailed the rescission in on time (which you did) and you don't sign anything else (which we know you won't), you escaped unscathed.

Congrats.
 

Unlucky2.1.2012

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Well I hope everything is free, clear and away, I appreciate the quick responses. I am definitely not going to take any additional calls from this company. My rescinding of this contract is final and have no plans on dropping the rescission. If all goes well, I now have the basic knowledge of timeshares, knowledge I should have had to begin with to make a more educated decision on future "resale" buys when the time is right.
 

Mike&Edie

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verbal contract

I share DeniseM's concern about the phone conversation. If you got engaged in a conversation and were provoked to imply that you would look at new terms on the contract and did not clearly state that you want the contract rescission to move forward they might try to slime you and argue that you telephonically cancelled the rescission and agreed to look at new terms, which they will wait more than 10 days to send to you. I would follow up with a letter spelling out that you want the contract rescission to proceed as originally requested in writing on (date). I wouldn't talk to them except to be a broken record playing over and over again, "I want to cancel the contract" But sir, we have better terms, "I want to cancel the contract" You can't do that...."I want to cancel the contract." You are in breach..."I want to cancel the contract"

Good luck, don't change your position or get engaged is side conversations.

Mike
www.fulltimetimeshare.com
 

Unlucky2.1.2012

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Verbal Contract

As per the Verbal contract that they can use, should I go through the exact process using USPS and get a return receipt. I never thought about what they could use from the phone conversation. I am on day number 9, so I would have to act fast tomorrow in getting this letter out. Would it bust time if I sent it USPS tomorrow?
 

Passepartout

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I think you are probably OK, but for your peace of mind, another letter wouldn't hurt. Those people are completely without honor, and they have shown us that they will try any sneaky, underhanded lying weaseley tactic they can. Challenge the charge with your credit card carrier (if you gave the number to them)- cancel the card and get a new number issued if necessary.

Odds are that you have dodged their bullet, but one just can't be too sure.

Best wishes for a successful outcome.

Jim
 

theo

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Close the door (...again) and lock it shut

Engaging in any post-rescission phone conversation with these slimy sales vermin was clearly a mistake which (as others have already noted above) has only potentially muddied the waters of your initial rescission / cancellation. You've now given the weasels room for their own subjective "interpretation" of that phone conversation and you must now close that door (...again) and lock it shut.

IMnsHO, you should now prepare and send another letter while the rescission period is still open, plainly reinforcing in writing and under signature that nothing has changed and that you are still exercising your right to rescind; a right provided to you by applicable state law. State in writing that nothing in your phone conversation can or should be construed or interpreted in any other way.

Get the new letter postmarked before the 10 days elapse and, needless to say, stay off the phone.
 

csxjohn

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Engaging in any ...IMnsHO, you should now prepare and send another letter while the rescission period is still open, plainly reinforcing in writing and under signature that nothing has changed and that you are still exercising your right to rescind; a right provided to you by applicable state law.... .
I would stop right there and not mention any phone conversation.

Do what theo says but say, "on this date (meaning today) nothing has changed ....

Not legal advice, just my opinion. Why bring up the phone conversation and bring it to their attention?
 

RX8

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I don't think there is any concern even if the OP verbally agreed to drop the rescission. The only way to prove that is if the phone call was recorded. The recording will also include the lies about breaching the contract by rescinding.
 

vacationtime1

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Contracts for the sale of real estate must be be evidenced by a writing.

OP's initial contract with Wastegate was in writing; it was enforceable until OP rescinded it in writing and in a timely fashion. At that point, there was no contract.

The telephone conversation was obviously not a writing. If Wastegate were able to enforce it, it would be tantamount to a verbal contract to sell real property. Legally, it is a nullity.

That said, it will not hurt OP (and it will probably make him feel more secure) to send a letter along the lines Theo (as augmented by John) suggests -- and definitely short and to the point. Yes, use the same method of delivery as the original contract provides for rescission.
 

timeos2

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As just posted above send a second letter again confirming your rescinding if you wish, but no verbal contract can overrule a written one. You are safe there.

You have seen the incredible - and illegal! - lengths Wastegate will go to in making a sale. Stating that you are "breaching" by using your absolute right to rescind is about as low as anyone can go in straight out lies and misrepresentation. Be so thankful you got out. They are the worst of the worst.
 
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As a side note, Westgate has an office in every resort whose job is to prevent rescission. Their job is, while the person is inside the Rescission Period, to talk out any concerns they have. So, that's who called you. If the deal is reinstated, the OP can file a lawsuit. They (Westgate) can not reinstate a contract verbally. Wastegate would need to find the recorded call, and it would be proven that the contract was illegally reinstated.

TS
 

Rent_Share

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As a side note, Westgate has an office in every resort whose job is to prevent rescission. Their job is, while the person is inside the Rescission Period, to talk out any concerns they have. So, that's who called you. If the deal is reinstated, the OP can file a lawsuit. They (Westgate) can not reinstate a contract verbally. Wastegate would need to find the recorded call, and it would be proven that the contract was illegally reinstated.

TS
Any contract for real estate must be in writing

See Statute of Frauds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_frauds

The statute of frauds refers to the requirement that certain kinds of contracts be memorialized in a signed writing with sufficient content to evidence the contract.
Traditionally, the statute of frauds requires a signed writing in the following circumstances:
  • Contracts in consideration of marriage. This provision covers prenuptial agreements.
  • Contracts that cannot be performed within one year. However, contracts of indefinite duration do not fall under the statute of frauds regardless of how long the performance actually takes.
  • Contracts for the transfer of an interest in land. This applies not only to a contract to sell land but also to any other contract in which land or an interest in it is disposed, such as the grant of a mortgage or an easement.
  • Contracts by the executor of a will to pay a debt of the estate with his own money.
  • Contracts for the sale of goods totaling $500 or more ($50 in Alberta, Canada).
  • Contracts in which one party becomes a surety (acts as guarantor) for another party's debt or other obligation.
 

SMHarman

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Contracts for the sale of real estate must be be evidenced by a writing.

OP's initial contract with Wastegate was in writing; it was enforceable until OP rescinded it in writing and in a timely fashion. At that point, there was no contract.

The telephone conversation was obviously not a writing. If Wastegate were able to enforce it, it would be tantamount to a verbal contract to sell real property. Legally, it is a nullity.

That said, it will not hurt OP (and it will probably make him feel more secure) to send a letter along the lines Theo (as augmented by John) suggests -- and definitely short and to the point. Yes, use the same method of delivery as the original contract provides for rescission.
^^^'
What he and others said. The written contract overrides any verbal statements. Just like the written contract overrides anything said by the sales person to close the deal.
It it is not written down, it did not happen.
 

theo

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Two minutes work, plus postage...

<snip> The written contract overrides any verbal statements. Just like the written contract overrides anything said by the sales person to close the deal. It it is not written down, it did not happen.
Fully understood, agreed and not in dispute for even a moment, but...

Remember that we are still talking about Westgate here, perhaps the lowest of the low in the entire timeshare industry and IMnsHO even considerably lower than sunken whale dung. The Wastegate weasels could very well choose to at least try to bamboozle any contracted buyer in an attempt to salvage a sale.

As a point of law, a valid written rescission clearly stands alone and in full force and effect until or unless retracted in writing. No one here disagrees with that indisputable fact, but IMnsHO Westgate is still capable of trying almost anything. We've seen, to cite just one specific example, Wastegate rescission instructions being buried deep within an accompanying CD in an obvious effort to conceal the contract rescission rights provided by applicable state law from a unwitting buyer.

In short, I'd personally be inclined to avoid any possibility, however remote, of a lengthy and completely avoidable legal song and dance routine with Westgate by marginalizing the unfortunate phone conversation with a written reinforcement of the original rescission. Two minutes work and the cost of postage seems not a whole lot of effort to me to slam the door completely shut on these weasels with no further contact.
Just my personal opinion, to implement or ignore as you may see fit...
 
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Unlucky2.1.2012

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Alright it's day ten of my rescission period, I went ahead and followed the advice given above and resent another rescission letter emergency rush with a return receipt. I decided to scan through the given CD with all the closing documents into the computer to find out it had nothing but a single adobe page with a barcode i cant use and a metric turd ton of other westgate resort information. Any future calls or contact with westgate is totally out of the question. Well I hope things work out with this because with all I have heard about this place, I only hope I eluded the headache of working with or working FOR westgate. I can't express how much I do appreciate the advice I have been giving here at tug.
 

TUGBrian

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Its folks like these (the person on the phone, not you) that do nothing but further hurt the image of this industry.

Sad this happened to you, but glad you were able to get out while you could!
 

Rent_Share

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Keep your eyes out on your cable/satellite/netflicks provider for the documentary "The Queen of Versailles" It's currently being shown on CNBC

A fish begins to stink at the head
 

YeongWoo

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Welcome to TUG!

Its folks like these (the person on the phone, not you) that do nothing but further hurt the image of this industry.

Sad this happened to you, but glad you were able to get out while you could!
The industry image suffers needlessly because of these sales weasels. Hopefully, you are out of the contract and better educated about timeshares. The resorts and vacation memories are real but only worth the resale prices...

Take your time learning on TUG and you'll make a better purchase in the future.
 

khalil

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Hi Unlucky

I just hope wastegate executes a refund back to you immediately. Please let me know.
These wastegate sales people have no conscience of the absurd way they market to people.
Wish sum bright spark warns all the people about wastegate dirty, bogus and dishonest sales tactics used in enticing the consumer to buy.
 

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Well it took a few weeks for me to get my refund back. See my post for some re-assurance. The key is to follow the rescind instructions exactly. Also, I did get a confirmation canceling the timeshare in the mail. I am keep that letter , a scan of my USPS receipts, plus credit card statement showing proof of refund in my safe along with birth certificate, passport, etc.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193186

Ps I hate typing on an iPad
 

theo

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"Immediately" is neither likely nor a legal requirement...

<snip> I just hope wastegate executes a refund back to you immediately. <snip>
It is highly unlikley that there will be an "immediate" refund. It could take a few weeks and by law potentially up to a maximum of 45 days, but in the final analysis the Westgate vermin will have no other choice than to cancel the contract, as directed in writing by the buyer exercising his legal rights under applicable state law, and issue a full refund of the initial deposit (...potentially minus a small administrative charge for any owner materials which were provided at contract execution but not subsequently returned by the buyer).
 

khalil

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a small administrative charge for any owner materials which were provided at contract execution but not subsequently returned by the buyer).[/QUOTE]

How much will owner materials be approximately ?
How much does it cost to send a rescission letter via usps?
Can someone send me a sample copy of a rescind letter ?
How is the recission period for each state ?

Sorry for all the questions need to know so that i can advice other people.
 
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