Website Issues with Changes & Cancellations

[Zenichiro]

Hilton Hotels is a completely separate entity than HGVC. They don't share resources and HGVC pays Hilton to use the brand.

I know that. My point isn’t that they should literally use Hilton Hotels’ system, it’s that they could do a much better job and take a page from Hilton or Marriott when it comes to the user experience.

A lot of people make the argument that it’s just too complicated because of all the points, seasons, and booking rules. I don’t think that’s a good excuse. Yes, it’s more complex than a hotel reservation, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done better.

My point is that if owners keep accepting the current system as “just the way it is,” nothing will change. That’s why I always mention the website and reservation system in owner reviews and surveys. If enough owners speak up, maybe they’ll finally make improving it a priority.

 

[brp]

A lot of people make the argument that it’s just too complicated because of all the points, seasons, and booking rules. I don’t think that’s a good excuse. Yes, it’s more complex than a hotel reservation, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done better.

I'm not sure that the hotel portal is dealing with things that much less complex than the timeshare. For every reservation there are different rooms and different rates with different rules as well as member/non-member variations. And the prices are changing constantly. As an example, we have a stay in London in October that I have rebooked and cancelled something like 10 times as the Flex rates keep fluctuating. And each time it has just worked. and the filtering based on chain type makes it very easy.

Cheers.

 

[cd5]

I know that. My point isn’t that they should literally use Hilton Hotels’ system, it’s that they could do a much better job and take a page from Hilton or Marriott when it comes to the user experience.

A lot of people make the argument that it’s just too complicated because of all the points, seasons, and booking rules. I don’t think that’s a good excuse. Yes, it’s more complex than a hotel reservation, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done better.

My point is that if owners keep accepting the current system as “just the way it is,” nothing will change. That’s why I always mention the website and reservation system in owner reviews and surveys. If enough owners speak up, maybe they’ll finally make improving it a priority.

I believe it's a question of resources, both financial and personnel-wise. The offices for HGVC are miniscule considering the size of the company now that they've expanded. They've cut back staff at call centres and other offices in HVC and HGVC (to increase profitability) and my belief is that they've also bitten off more than they can chew by taking over & restructuring Diamond and BlueGreen, which are massive compared to the original HGVC portfolio. The IT work is not being done "in-house", it's an outside contract of course, and is surely limited by budget as well as a lack of resources concerning detailed institutional knowledge of the requirements for each entity in this "consolidation". I constantly bring up the problems Embarc members encounter at the board meetings (for over 3 years now, since Hilton has taken over) -they are 90% call centre and website issues.
I feel they are willing to address them but there's a definite disconnect between the willingness and the results. Of course, management fees are a sizeable contribution to their profit so they're going to budget "cautiously" to resolve the problems of owners/members who are locked in and have to pay anyway, because it doesn't affect their bottom line. The result is what we see and will likely continue to see for some time to come. Reporting issues is important and should continue but I sometimes think that they focus their surveys on the resorts themselves for a reason...

 

[Zenichiro]

I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying. My point is that I don’t want “limited resources” or “it’s complicated” to become an excuse for the status quo.

As owners, we pay a lot in maintenance fees every year. I think it’s reasonable to expect those fees to be reinvested into improving the website and reservation system. Those improvements should be a priority.

That’s why I always mention it in surveys and reviews. If enough owners keep bringing up the same issues, eventually they’ll have to pay attention. If we just accept it as the way things are, I don’t see anything changing.

 

[Zenichiro]

I'm not sure that the hotel portal is dealing with things that much less complex than the timeshare. For every reservation there are different rooms and different rates with different rules as well as member/non-member variations. And the prices are changing constantly. As an example, we have a stay in London in October that I have rebooked and cancelled something like 10 times as the Flex rates keep fluctuating. And each time it has just worked. and the filtering based on chain type makes it very easy.

Cheers.

That’s exactly my point. Hotel systems are handling thousands of room types, constantly changing rates, points bookings, free night certificates, upgrades, member discounts, and cancellations every minute of the day. They’re incredibly complex, yet they still make modifying a reservation simple.

I’m not saying HGV is identical, but I don’t think the complexity of a points-based system is a good reason for the current user experience. It can be done better if they make it a priority.

 

[Oliver2025]

I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying. My point is that I don’t want “limited resources” or “it’s complicated” to become an excuse for the status quo.

As owners, we pay a lot in maintenance fees every year. I think it’s reasonable to expect those fees to be reinvested into improving the website and reservation system. Those improvements should be a priority.

That’s why I always mention it in surveys and reviews. If enough owners keep bringing up the same issues, eventually they’ll have to pay attention. If we just accept it as the way things are, I don’t see anything changing.

Your mf fees are to operate the resorts. Your small club dues won’t cover a massive IT reservation system project. I don’t see in the near future any systems getting fixed or upgraded to fix a multitude of issues.

 

[Zenichiro]

Your mf fees are to operate the resorts. Your small club dues won’t cover a massive IT reservation system project. I don’t see in the near future any systems getting fixed or upgraded to fix a multitude of issues.

Fair enough, but by that logic there’s no point in complaining about anything.

Reservation fees and cancellation fees go up regularly, and those all contribute to the budget. On top of that, HGV has roughly 720,000 members paying dues, plus revenue from new sales.

My point is that we shouldn’t keep making excuses for the lack of investment in the owner experience. Every successful company listens when enough customers raise the same concerns. If owners stop speaking up because they assume nothing will change, then nothing probably will.

 

[GT75]

Your small club dues won’t cover a massive IT reservation system project. I don’t see in the near future any systems getting fixed or upgraded to fix a multitude of issues.

The problem is that the HGVC reservation system was working prior to HGV trying to integrate it into one system. HGV IT took a working system and broke it. They have shown investors how they are saving money through the integration of the various TS systems, but they sure aren't telling them that many parts of the reservation system now aren't working. But I do agree with your conclusions; I don't see this being fixed for a long time, if ever in my lifetime. I have been told that it won't be fixed until after all HGVC resorts have switched to the new inventory system. They don't know when that will be done (which shows the lack of any basic plan).

 

[GT75]

Fair enough, but by that logic there’s no point in complaining about anything.

Reservation fees and cancellation fees go up regularly, and those all contribute to the budget. On top of that, HGV has roughly 720,000 members paying dues, plus revenue from new sales.

My point is that we shouldn’t keep making excuses for the lack of investment in the owner experience. Every successful company listens when enough customers raise the same concerns. If owners stop speaking up because they assume nothing will change, then nothing probably will.

Agree.

 

[Tamaradarann]

They are integrating the booking engine, which makes complete sense in the world of software engineering and is absolutely the right thing to do from a maintenance standpoint.

However, as others have said, they seem to be doing it without a solid plan, which makes complete sense in the messed up world of HGVC IT and is absolutely the wrong thing to do from a customer standpoint.

Yes, they should integrate the booking engine. No, they should not do it the way they're doing it.

As I've previously mentioned, HGVC and bHC already have different rules and work very well together prior to this recent change under the same system. So that's not a good rationale for not integrating the booking engine. And "integrating the inventory" still makes no sense to me as a phrase.

Cheers.

I am not sure what you mean by the 'booking engine". The word "Booking Engine" to me means having the power to make and change reservations which means the use of the website's features, which contain the booking rules and inventory, to make and change a reservation. I suggested above that they just change the front end to allow one to enter the website and check which system they want to book. Then enter that system and use that portion of the website that has the rules and inventory for the system you own.

 

[GT75]

There is another issue that I believe HGV IT has created with the switchover to the new inventory system. This, I suspect, is affecting all HGVC fixed-week owners (I know that both Valdoro and Craig Lodge owners are affected). Usually in January, but sometimes a little later, reservations will have been made for 2028 fixed-week owners. Currently, no 2028 HGVC fixed-week reservations have been made. This will become a significant problem if these fixed-week reservations are not made before the end of this year. That only gives HGV IT 5 months.

 

[Cyberc]

speaking of website, is anyone able to login NOW?

I was able to login 1 hour ago, but now, not so much.

 

[Cyberc]

speaking of website, is anyone able to login NOW?

I was able to login 1 hour ago, but now, not so much.

its now working again

 

[HuskerATL]

its now working again

They were just fixing the change reservation issue...

 

[brp]

I am not sure what you mean by the 'booking engine". The word "Booking Engine" to me means having the power to make and change reservations which means the use of the website's features, which contain the booking rules and inventory, to make and change a reservation. I suggested above that they just change the front end to allow one to enter the website and check which system they want to book. Then enter that system and use that portion of the website that has the rules and inventory for the system you own.

The "booking engine" is the underlying software system that does all of the legwork for booking reservations. From a maintenance standpoint, it makes sense to have one software system at the backend that does the heavy lifting rather than bifurcating to two (or more) after a common GUI interaction. That's what they're trying (poorly) to do here. The concept is is sound software engineering practice. The implementation isn't.

Cheers.

 

[mitzi]

When looking at my reservation at HGVC Tradimo Kyoto Gojo I noticed one night available after my reservation dates. I tried to change it on-line but it kept saying that time slot was unavailable. So I called and sure enough the date was there. The CSR put me on hold to talk to her supervisor. They ended up booking a separate night in addition to my three night reservation as it was the same room type but they didn't want to take the chance of losing the whole reservation if they cancelled and tried to rebook the entire time slot. I'm fine with that but it just shouldn't be that hard. I would have had to take a chance and cancel and rebook the entire time slot to do it on-line as we cannot book a single night. No way was I going to do it so that's why I called.

They did that for me one time - maybe McAlpin? It is a reasonable work-around, but it seems like I've been told "we can't do that" on numerous occasions,

 

[GT75]

The "booking engine" is the underlying software system that does all of the legwork for booking reservations. From a maintenance standpoint, it makes sense to have one software system at the backend that does the heavy lifting rather than bifurcating to two (or more) after a common GUI interaction. That's what they're trying (poorly) to do here. The concept is is sound software engineering practice. The implementation isn't.

I agree with you; however, HGV should have factored in the proper implementation/cost for this. This shouldn't come out of the club dues budget. They could have used some of that money, which HGV is saving by reducing duplicate services from the merger. However, HGV is only interested in profits for its investors. I know we are "beating a dead horse". If HGV does monitor this bbs, then maybe they will take notes.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

These integration costs should have been factored into the Diamond and Bluegreen acquisition plan. Of course this never happens with mergers because pleasing Wall Street and making a "profitable deal" never includes these implementation costs at a realistic level. The IT or operational people are rarely involved in making these estimates. It's usually someone in corporate or external investment bank or broker who guestimates.

 

[SmithOp]

I am not sure what you mean by the 'booking engine". The word "Booking Engine" to me means having the power to make and change reservations which means the use of the website's features, which contain the booking rules and inventory, to make and change a reservation. I suggested above that they just change the front end to allow one to enter the website and check which system they want to book. Then enter that system and use that portion of the website that has the rules and inventory for the system you own.

Think of it in terms of three layers:

Presentation - what we see (GUI) usually the web servers.
Engine - the part that does all the work, applies all the rules, etc This is the application server (Java probably)
Back End - the database server that has records for all the user accounts, reservations, resorts, unit types, weeks, etc (DB2 probably)

I say probably because that's how it worked years ago when IBM had the contract, remember Revolution

Ideally it would work as you suggested, but it sounds like a challenge for IT to merge all the different systems and rules.

 

[chosshaul]

Just canceled all these dates if Anyone wants to go to Mcalpin

 

[cd5]

I agree with you; however, HGV should have factored in the proper implementation/cost for this. This shouldn't come out of the club dues budget. They could have used some of that money, which HGV is saving by reducing duplicate services from the merger. However, HGV is only interested in profits for its investors. I know we are "beating a dead horse". If HGV does monitor this bbs, then maybe they will take notes.

They're being cheap about it I'm sure because it comes out of the HGV accounts not member fees. Having a functioning website is part of what the management fees are supposed to provide.

 

[JohnnyO]

Have any of you closely tracked your Hilton Honors Points activity on-line? They sure seem to have errors on ours. One is huge in our favor so I am not complaining. But if they screw up this bad even in our favor ... how bad is the rest of the data? We do have a lot of activity when one includes all our Hilton credit cards, Hilton stays (cash & points), and points accumulation from many sources as well as all the cancelations that are listed. I was just making a reservation change and I asked if they had a history report they could send me. The CSR said she didn't. It's all on-line for 12 months history.

Another glitch. So we had a two night reservation King Delux. When I tried to change it to just one night, on-line, it would not let me have the same room category as it said it wasn't available. So I called and they said the same thing. I said I want to keep the King Delux night I already booked. The CSR explained that their system doesn't show it if she tried to change it. So I booked the available King Accessible room for the night I wanted via the CSR. So I immediately went on-line and there was the King Delux room for the one night that I had just cancelled, So I booked it and then cancelled the King Accessible room. It is ridiculous the hoops we have to jump through.

Hilton's entire system is glitchy.

 

[HuskerATL]

Have any of you closely tracked your Hilton Honors Points activity on-line? They sure seem to have errors on ours. One is huge in our favor so I am not complaining. But if they screw up this bad even in our favor ... how bad is the rest of the data? We do have a lot of activity when one includes all our Hilton credit cards, Hilton stays (cash & points), and points accumulation from many sources as well as all the cancelations that are listed. I was just making a reservation change and I asked if they had a history report they could send me. The CSR said she didn't. It's all on-line for 12 months history.

Another glitch. So we had a two night reservation King Delux. When I tried to change it to just one night, on-line, it would not let me have the same room category as it said it wasn't available. So I called and they said the same thing. I said I want to keep the King Delux night I already booked. The CSR explained that their system doesn't show it if she tried to change it. So I booked the available King Accessible room for the night I wanted via the CSR. So I immediately went on-line and there was the King Delux room for the one night that I had just cancelled, So I booked it and then cancelled the King Accessible room. It is ridiculous the hoops we have to jump through.

Hilton's entire system is glitchy.

sounds like they are using the Diamond system....ugh...

 

[Oliver2025]

I agree with you; however, HGV should have factored in the proper implementation/cost for this. This shouldn't come out of the club dues budget. They could have used some of that money, which HGV is saving by reducing duplicate services from the merger. However, HGV is only interested in profits for its investors. I know we are "beating a dead horse". If HGV does monitor this bbs, then maybe they will

I agree with you; however, HGV should have factored in the proper implementation/cost for this. This shouldn't come out of the club dues budget. They could have used some of that money, which HGV is saving by reducing duplicate services from the merger. However, HGV is only interested in profits for its investors. I know we are "beating a dead horse". If HGV does monitor this bbs, then maybe they will take notes.

My guess no one monitors TUG anymore. I guess we should write in with our feedback. Earnings call wasn’t so great today either.

 

[Oliver2025]

My guess no one monitors TUG anymore. I guess we should write in with our feedback. Earnings call wasn’t so great today either.

Contact Leigh Nieman she runs the club.