Waitlist expansion?

[HitchHiker71]

It's not going to create more demand, but how right now you cannot waitlist under 60 days (the discount window), someone who puts in a waitlist request outside of 60 days will get kicked off the waitlist AT the 60 day mark.

Right now inside of 60 days, finding inventory and getting upgrades puts the onus on a savvy owner who knows the system and hunts for inventory regularly.

With this change, the savvy owner will never have an opportunity to book that inventory because it's going to go to someone who waitlisted it. It will never show up online as even being available.

Now, that's not to say that everyone can't just do the waitlist, but there's a cost to that.

It's worth pointing out that waitlist entrees are currently and have been free for the past few months - since mid-May - so there is no cost at present.

Limited-Time Offer: Waitlist Fees Are Waived — Club Wyndham

This offer begins May 15, 2025, so don’t wait to take advantage of this limited-time offer. Submit your request, get notified if a match opens up, and confirm within 48 hours.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

I'd surmise Wyndham is trying to get more owners using the waitlist function while it's free - then expire the free incentive and see if doing so results in lower usage and if so, how much. Or, this could go the way of reservation transactions becoming free for everyone - if expanding the waitlist shows a measurable increase in occupancy rates - then it's simply a cost of doing business in return for higher occupancy rates - which is their ultimate goal - maximizing resort occupancy rates across the board.

 

[dioxide45]

It's not going to create more demand, but how right now you cannot waitlist under 60 days (the discount window), someone who puts in a waitlist request outside of 60 days will get kicked off the waitlist AT the 60 day mark.

Right now inside of 60 days, finding inventory and getting upgrades puts the onus on a savvy owner who knows the system and hunts for inventory regularly.

With this change, the savvy owner will never have an opportunity to book that inventory because it's going to go to someone who waitlisted it. It will never show up online as even being available.

Now, that's not to say that everyone can't just do the waitlist, but there's a cost to that.

But if something is available inside of 60 days, it must have either been available outside 60 days or came from a cancellation inside 60 days. If there were waitlists setup outside 60 days, it would have matched availability and the availability would have already been gone. The only real significant reason there would be last minute availability is there simply isn't enough demand for that property and time of year. I don't see how carrying waitlist into the 60 day window changes it that much.

People aren't going to setup a waitlist if there is availability, and if there are pending waitlists then there isn't availability and nothing to upgrade VIPs into. I suppose a cancellation comes through and there were competing waitlist and VIP upgrade then it could possibly take away the potential VIP upgrade, but with only one available unit what are the chances that would lead to an upgrade anyway.

 

[paxsarah]

Let's assume for a moment that the waitlist wins

I wouldn't necessarily characterize this as the "waitlist wins" any more than I would characterize the current upgrade system as "Bronze wins." It's just "earliest request wins" - which a VIP can request an automatic upgrade and a non-VIP can request a waitlist both on the same date 10 months out. In fact, there are probably as many or more VIPs putting automatic upgrade requests on reservations made at the 10 month mark than there are owners requesting a waitlist at 10 months, only because in most cases they can already get what they want if they try to book at 10 months anyway. I would guess most of the earliest waitlists are set a little bit later, after the flurry of booking of 10-month inventory is over and someone realizes they missed out. And they're both going to beat the VIP who books for a discount at 60 days, doesn't find an instant upgrade, and requests an automated upgrade (the "Bronze wins" scenario).

 

[paxsarah]

waitlist entrees are currently and have been free for the past few months - since mid-May

Since mid-May 2025, so over a year ago.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I wouldn't necessarily characterize this as the "waitlist wins" any more than I would characterize the current upgrade system as "Bronze wins." It's just "earliest request wins" - which a VIP can request an automatic upgrade and a non-VIP can request a waitlist both on the same date 10 months out. In fact, there are probably as many or more VIPs putting automatic upgrade requests on reservations made at the 10 month mark than there are owners requesting a waitlist at 10 months, only because in most cases they can already get what they want if they try to book at 10 months anyway. I would guess most of the earliest waitlists are set a little bit later, after the flurry of booking of 10-month inventory is over and someone realizes they missed out. And they're both going to beat the VIP who books for a discount at 60 days, doesn't find an instant upgrade, and requests an automated upgrade (the "Bronze wins" scenario).

You're misreading what I'm saying here - what I'm saying is if the goal is to increase occupancy rates - waitlists will always win - regardless of first come first serve. Wyndham has been trumpeting getting more owners on vacation as a goal for the past few years now - it's the reason for the megarenter cullings - separating VIP points buckets - basically most of what they've implemented has been to maximize occupancy rates across the board. Chances are this upcoming change will be no different with this goal in mind as a first principle.

 

[paxsarah]

You're misreading what I'm saying here - what I'm saying is if the goal is to increase occupancy rates - waitlists will always win - regardless of first come first serve. Wyndham has been trumpeting getting more owners on vacation as a goal for the past few years now - it's the reason for the megarenter cullings - separating VIP points buckets - basically most of what they've implemented has been to maximize occupancy rates across the board. Chances are this upcoming change will be no different with this goal in mind as a first principle.

I would be a bit shocked if they decide to always prioritize waitlist above automated upgrade requests. Remember that every fulfilled automated upgrade releases a smaller unit back into the system for another owner's waitlist request to match to. If it gets more owners on vacation while also avoiding alienating VIPs, that seems the better path.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Since mid-May 2025, so over a year ago.

Even better then - this further supports my assertion that waitlist charges are going the way of the reservation transaction fees a few years ago now during the pandemic - temporary at first - then permanent...

 

[Floridaman76]

But if something is available inside of 60 days, it must have either been available outside 60 days or came from a cancellation inside 60 days. If there were waitlists setup outside 60 days, it would have matched availability and the availability would have already been gone. The only real significant reason there would be last minute availability is there simply isn't enough demand for that property and time of year. I don't see how carrying waitlist into the 60 day window changes it that much.

People aren't going to setup a waitlist if there is availability, and if there are pending waitlists then there isn't availability and nothing to upgrade VIPs into. I suppose a cancellation comes through and there were competing waitlist and VIP upgrade then it could possibly take away the potential VIP upgrade, but with only one available unit what are the chances that would lead to an upgrade anyway.

That's exactly my point, I think you are underestimating the number of cancellations that occur inside of 60 days, and i'm speculating a HUGE percentage of that inventory will be sucked up by waitlist owners before non-waitlist owners even have a chance to book it.

As I said in a previous post, I do a lot of last minute trips as inventory appears. Bonnet Creek and Ocean Walk are a couple resorts that inventory fluctuates wildly at, day to day and even hour by hour sometimes especially in the 15 to 30 day mark. I can't tell you how many times I have sniped inventory that shows up at like 11am that wasn't there at midnight or 8am. And since the waitlist (probably) won't also auto upgrade this is going to be a kick in the nuts I think.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I would be happy if the current system worked correctly. We know upgrades don't always work, we know waitlist requests don't always work. We keep building features on top of a crappy system. If waitlist requests get prioritize over upgrades or vice versa - how will we EVER know? One more feature to operate in the Wyndham black box. How long have we had authentication issues? There are slew of buggy things, and we continue on...

 

[Sandy VDH]

I do a lot of bookings and re-bookings within the 60 day window, and inventory is constantly changing. I am always looking for opportunities, if available, to rebook my reservations at less points. I find there is a influx of cancellations right after you cross the discount thresholds 60, 45 and 30 days for each of the VIP status windows.

 

[CO skier]

You're misreading what I'm saying here - what I'm saying is if the goal is to increase occupancy rates - waitlists will always win - regardless of first come first serve. Wyndham has been trumpeting getting more owners on vacation as a goal for the past few years now - it's the reason for the megarenter cullings - separating VIP points buckets - basically most of what they've implemented has been to maximize occupancy rates across the board. Chances are this upcoming change will be no different with this goal in mind as a first principle.

If this is the case, then VIP discounts cannot apply to waitlist offers, because it would bring back a limited version of the old cancel/rebook trick.

A Founders VIP books the limited number of certain unit types at a resort, then immediately enters waitlist request(s) for that unit type, so they know they are #1 on the waitlist for those few units. At 60 days, cancel the unit to be picked-up by their waitlist and book it for 60% off.

This would work great for ski weeks in the one or two 3 or 4 bedroom Presidential units at Steamboat Springs, CO, or Park City, UT, especially for weeks 51 & 52, as an example.

 

[CO skier]

This seems VERY short sighted for Wyndham, how can they be pushing sales, then basically WEAKENING the entire premise / benefit of the VIP program. If you can't get upgrades or discounts, why the hell would anyone buy retail points?

There are no VIP discounts or upgrades in WorldMark, but there are lots of WM VIP owners.

 

[Floridaman76]

There are no VIP discounts or upgrades in WorldMark, but there are lots of WM VIP owners.

Ok, well there's an entire other forum dedicated to Worldmark and none of us are talking about Worldmark here, and my understanding is their waitlist works differently anyway and none of that is even relevant here.

 

[Floridaman76]

If this is the case, then VIP discounts cannot apply to waitlist offers, because it would bring back a limited version of the old cancel/rebook trick.

A Founders VIP books the limited number of certain unit types at a resort, then immediately enters waitlist request(s) for that unit type, so they know they are #1 on the waitlist for those few units. At 60 days, cancel the unit to be picked-up by their waitlist and book it for 60% off.

This would work great for ski weeks in the one or two 3 or 4 bedroom Presidential units at Steamboat Springs, CO, or Park City, UT, especially for weeks 51 & 52, as an example.

Maybe, I had considered that too, but the person attempting to cancel / rebook would have to be the "next in line" for that trick to work, and it would be a lot riskier than the previous cancel / rebook process.

That said, I guess there would be nothing stopping an individual from making a booking at the 10 month (or 13 month) mark, then immediately doing a waitlist. Then if a waitlist match hits during the discount window, cancelling and rebooking.

Wow, this new thing is already in place and another loophole has been found

I think this was the entire reason the waitlist cutoff was 60 days

 

[Floridaman76]

I would be happy if the current system worked correctly. We know upgrades don't always work, we know waitlist requests don't always work. We keep building features on top of a crappy system. If waitlist requests get prioritize over upgrades or vice versa - how will we EVER know? One more feature to operate in the Wyndham black box. How long have we had authentication issues? There are slew of buggy things, and we continue on...

If anything this just adds to the lack of transparency in the system, and I think invites potential abuses.

It simultaneously opens the door for abuses and disenfranchises VIP's to some degree to "fill rooms". I'm not sure I understand how it will fill rooms because if there is availability, people looking can see it.

All it really does is rewards laziness and gives Wyndham another potential revenue stream (waitlist fees).

 

[CO skier]

Ok, well there's an entire other forum dedicated to Worldmark and none of us are talking about Worldmark here, and my understanding is their waitlist works differently anyway and none of that is even relevant here.

My reply was a direct analogy to show how the lack of VIP discounts and upgrades is not the impediment to people buying retail points that you imagine it to be.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Is the waitlist a batch process (like upgrades). A HUGE flaw (when words like 'next in line' comes into play). Because 1st online trumps next inline...

I'm not sure how much abuse can come into play (since we can only have 2 at a time). Then again, you sure get the idea that someone has figured out how to put GC's on the day of checkin even if they don't have allowances. It wasn't me. Programmatically that seems to work well, and yet there seems to be something going on (stopping GC's altogether (or even changing owners)) to be put on (without calling).

 

[CO skier]

I'm not sure how much abuse can come into play (since we can only have 2 at a time).

Your are not considering the points managers who handle multiple VIP accounts.

 

[LDBEH]

I agree with Sandi - I’m not sure Wyndham knows how to adequately institute a waitlist - just like they didn’t know how to institute an upgrade properly. I’ll keep getting online regularly to find last minute options or look for upgrades. I find my share of both this way.

 

[jp10558]

I can't decide if Wyndham wants to offer these things but still give opportunities to the "harder working" people doing manual searches, or if they just can't figure out how to do computer systems. I mean, II also has issues finding things with their OGS. IDK about RCI. There's no real reason there should be inventory that shows up that hasn't run through the existing Waitlist / OGS / Upgrade pending, but yet we see that to frequently be the case. In multiple systems.

 

[Arimaas]

I am not VIP owner, so I’m obviously missing something here, and I tried tracking the tread but I can’t really understand - can someone spell out the impact here, and what specifically the change is and how that made that impact ? I have used the waitlist feature, but always at the ten month mark (twice for TOTG 2 BR ocean view deluxe) and have been matched at at least 9 months out both times.

 

[CO skier]

Is the waitlist a batch process (like upgrades). A HUGE flaw (when words like 'next in line' comes into play). Because 1st online trumps next inline...

Some people think WorldMark is not relevant to this discussion, but waitlists down to 14 days in advance is how the WorldMark waitlist has worked since its introduction more than 20 years ago -- waaaay before waitlists were introduced to Club Wyndham. In WorldMark, waitlist fills are "real time" (not necessarily immediate upon cancellation, though), not a batch process.

Wyndham IT certainly has some experience with that.

 

[CO skier]

I am not VIP owner, so I’m obviously missing something here, and I tried tracking the tread but I can’t really understand - can someone spell out the impact here, and what specifically the change is and how that made that impact ? I have used the waitlist feature, but always at the ten month mark (twice for TOTG 2 BR ocean view deluxe) and have been matched at at least 9 months out both times.

You must have placed waitlists that were "Level 1" at 10 months.

It is the "Level 2" waitlists placed at 10 or 9 or 6 months that would be matching within 60 days when a lot more cancellations happen. This may be what Wyndham is seeing.

 

[Arimaas]

You must have placed waitlists that were "Level 1" at 10 months.

It is the "Level 2" waitlists placed at 10 or 9 or 6 months that would be matching within 60 days when a lot more cancellations happen. This may be what Wyndham is seeing.

I'm still not following. Sorry to ask, but if someone has the time, can they explain what all this means or at least point me to the right direction to read about this myself, if there's a place Wyndam documents all this (the owners guide maybe)? I have to admit I don't know much about waitlist.

 

[Floridaman76]

Some people think WorldMark is not relevant to this discussion, but waitlists down to 14 days in advance is how the WorldMark waitlist has worked since its introduction more than 20 years ago -- waaaay before waitlists were introduced to Club Wyndham. In WorldMark, waitlist fills are "real time" (not necessarily immediate upon cancellation, though), not a batch process.

Wyndham IT certainly has some experience with that.

Roll your eyes all you want, pal... Despite you continually trying to sneak Worldmark into this conversation it's just NOT relevant. Worldmark does not have suite discounts or upgrades, so their waitlist works fine the way it is down to 14 days.

Our system has discounts that hit at 60 days and depending on your VIP level, upgrades start hitting at 60, 45, 30 and 15 days.

I guess you aren't a VIP and don't really understand how this will impact us. It's just apples and oranges to Worldmark so it's pointless to compare how the two waitlists work, or not.

Honestly the waitlist system has worked pretty well as originally implemented. Even though you didn't really see "behind the curtains" on how it really worked. I have made three matches and booked two of them. One at Steamboat and one at Smokey Mountains. One of them I was able to get inventory somewhere else.