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Vistana Villages Key West Resale Question (estoppel lists as "Voluntary")???

SMH1968

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I am in the process of buying a SVV Key West resale from a broker, however on the estoppel it is listed as a "Voluntary" resort. The broker states this is a mistake but Vistana would not issue a new estoppel. I am only interested in a Mandatory resale, but the rep from Vistana customer service was not able to answer my question over the phone and told me to email titlechanges@mvwc.com and vsnmembership@vistana.com for clarification.

Just curious if anyone had any advice on how to proceed as I don't have any interest in spending a week in Orlando every year!!!! Thank you.
 

Eric B

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FYI, that same week was listed on TSN for free with the transfer fees included. I had asked them for it and saw the estoppel with it marked as being voluntary. Since it’s Key West, it should be mandatory, so I was happy to go ahead with it, but when they contacted the broker she said she had sold it that morning. If you are confident that it will in fact be mandatory, it might be worth asking for a lower price.
 

DannyTS

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It is likely a mistake but you should get an official response from Vistana/Marriott. Unless they changed something I am not aware of. Regardless of what we say on TUG, you want to have it in writing from them. Please keep us updated!
 

DannyTS

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I looked at the current SVV Bella owner information on the Vistana site and I did not notice any change. The document states:

"(ii) Bella Florida. Bella Florida will be sold on a fee title basis. The fee simple title to the
Bella Florida property will be submitted to the condominium form of ownership. Units in Bella Florida are being
sold subject to a vacation ownership plan. Under the Club Resort vacation ownership plan for Bella Florida, fee title
to a VOI, consisting of an undivided 1/52nd interest in the Owner's Unit as tenant in common with the other Owners
of VOIs in that Unit, is conveyed to a Purchaser. A Unit is committed to the Club Resort vacation ownership plan
on the recording by the Developer of the first deed to a VOI in such Unit, which first deed will also designate the
specific VOI being conveyed in that Unit. Title to VOIs will be transferred to Purchasers by a special warranty deed
pursuant to the terms of a purchase agreement.
As described above and as set forth in the Club Resort Affiliation Agreement for Bella Florida,
membership in the Club is an inseparable part of each Club Resort VOI in Bella Florida. Therefore, when a
Purchaser acquires a Club Resort VOI in Bella Florida, the Purchaser automatically becomes a Club Member.
VOIs
in Bella Florida may not be incorporated into any multisite vacation ownership plan other than the Club without the
prior written consent of the Developer of Bella Florida and Club Operator."

More importantly, the original Declaration of Condominium of Bella Florida Condominium states:

"III. Membership in the Network
A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled in the Network as a
Network Member at the time that the Network Member acquires the Network Member's Vacation Ownership
Interest.
There is no Network contract separate and distinct from the purchaser's contract with the developer of the
vacation ownership plan at a Club Resort, and the terms of such membership are as set forth in the Club Documents
and Network Documents. Membership in the Network is granted to all purchasers of Club Resort Vacation
Ownership Interests. A resort becomes a Club Resort by means of a Club Resort Affiliation Agreement between
Club Operator and a developer or management company for a Club Resort under which the accommodations and
facilities of that resort are included as a part of the Starwood Vacation Network. All Club Resorts are affiliated with
the Network by means of a Network Affiliation Agreement between the Club Operator and the Network Operator.
The purchaser's decision to use the Network's exchange program by making a reservation for a Vacation Period or
Split Vacation Period at a Network Resort, or otherwise using StarOptions, after the expiration of the Home Resort
Preference Period is voluntary. If the Network Member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest,
the person no longer will be a Network Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest
automatically will become the Network Member. Participation in the Network also is dependent on the continued
affiliation with the Network of the Club Resort where the Network Member owns a Vacation Ownership Interest."

I am pretty sure that if they did not change it for Bella they did not change it for Key West either. I am not aware of any consultation or vote to change the mandatory status, I assume they would have to do that. We were not notified of any change either.
 

SMH1968

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Thanks for your responses. I got an email response from Title Changes apologizing for the mistake, but I'd prefer to receive an estoppel stating that it is a mandatory property. The seller's agent says she asked but they would not update the form, and I doubt they would do it for some random buyer (although I asked). Anyway, I'm less nervous to proceed, but still nervous!
 

Sea Six

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If it was voluntary you wouldn't have to stay in Orlando every year. You could trade through II or RCI, but you would need to have a membership and pay trading fees. On top of your VV fees, etc, etc,...
 
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dioxide45

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It will be fine. As long as it lists Villages Key West Condominium Assn Inc at the top as the association, it will be mandatory. That estoppel form is pretty much manually filled out. For our Key West estoppel, that checkbox for "Club Resort" was manually marked in pen with an X. Someone just checked the wrong box in your case.

Also, I have had manatorry weeks added to our account as voluntary. Meaning, they didn't have StarOptions. A call to Vistana and it was fixed pretty quick.
 

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I have asked Vistana in an email if SVV Bella remains mandatory if I sell it. Nothing has changed indeed, I have received the following answer:


Good Morning,


Please see below reply from the benefits department :



The SVV phase the owner has is Mandatory, so the new owner will have access to the VSN program such as : Corporate II Membership, Resort Network use, Banked options.

However, they are excluded from Marriott Bonvoy Conversion access and automatic Gold level. These are only accessible thru developer purchases.


Thank you!





raw
MARRIOTT VACATIONS WORLDWIDE


HOA Title

FINANCIAL SERVICES
 

CPNY

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I have asked Vistana in an email if SVV Bella remains mandatory if I sell it. Nothing has changed indeed, I have received the following answer:


Good Morning,


Please see below reply from the benefits department :



The SVV phase the owner has is Mandatory, so the new owner will have access to the VSN program such as : Corporate II Membership, Resort Network use, Banked options.

However, they are excluded from Marriott Bonvoy Conversion access and automatic Gold level. These are only accessible thru developer purchases.


Thank you!






raw
MARRIOTT VACATIONS WORLDWIDE


HOA Title

FINANCIAL SERVICES
The bonvoy conversion is junk and the Bonvoy gold elite only gives you a 2PM check out. Big whoop! Lol.
 
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Mroze

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The bonvoy conversion is junk and the gold elite only gives you a 2PM check in. Big whoop!
Here's a thread that discusses the Pros/Cons of converting SO->Bonvoy.

It depends on the specific resort and #SO accrued and also depends on the amount paid in MF.
For me using Westin Lagunamar [WLR: Annual-MF $1490 for 148.1K] I receive almost 240K Bonvoy-Points.
That's 10-Nights [including 2-Free-Nights] in a CAT-5 Marriott/Westin [Retail ~$2500 Including Fees/Taxes] for $1500 in MF. $1000-Savings.

Wouldn't normally exchange my SO for Bonvoy, however, if I am short it is the best value.
The PointsGuy values each Bonvoy-Point at $0.008 as a good price to purchase Bonvoy-Points, but the WLR-SO conversion is even better at $0.006273.
 
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pchung6

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That's 10-Nights [including 2-Free-Nights] in a CAT-5 Marriott/Westin [Retail ~$2500 Including Fees/Taxes] for $1500 in MF. $1000-Savings.

Do you have any recommendation for Cat 5 Marriott/Westin resorts? I still have 2 Cat-5 7 nights packages to be used by Jan-2021 and couldn't find any good hotel. Marriott devalued a lot good resorts were Cat 5 in March, now are Cat-6.
 

Mroze

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Do you have any recommendation for Cat 5 Marriott/Westin resorts? I still have 2 Cat-5 7 nights packages to be used by Jan-2021 and couldn't find any good hotel. Marriott devalued a lot good resorts were Cat 5 in March, now are Cat-6.
Are you looking for CAT-5 Resorts only or also CAT-5 Hotels?
Following are the CAT-5 [including CAT-4] Resorts. As for hotels you would need to narrow down the location as there are too many worldwide to list.

MVCI-RESORTS [16]
1594174511977.png


VSN-RESORTS [6]
1594176440307.png
 
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controller1

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The bonvoy conversion is junk and the gold elite only gives you a 2PM check in. Big whoop!

As far as Gold Elite I believe you're confusing the Marriott Bonvoy program with the Vistana Elite program. The Gold Elite that comes with a developer purchase is Gold Elite within the Marriott Bonvoy (hotel) program. It has several benefits for those staying in hotels but a 2:00 pm check-in is not one of them. Within the Vistana Elite program a 2:00 pm check-in is afforded to 4-Star (minimum of 359,000 StarOptions) and 5-Star Elite (minimum of 649,000 StarOptions) members.
 

Mroze

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As far as Gold Elite I believe you're confusing the Marriott Bonvoy program with the Vistana Elite program. The Gold Elite that comes with a developer purchase is Gold Elite within the Marriott Bonvoy (hotel) program. It has several benefits for those staying in hotels but a 2:00 pm check-in is not one of them. Within the Vistana Elite program a 2:00 pm check-in is afforded to 4-Star (minimum of 359,000 StarOptions) and 5-Star Elite (minimum of 649,000 StarOptions) members.
Apologies for the confusion.

The Gold/Elite designations above are INTERVAL ratings.
These are snippets of charts that I maintain for personal SxS analysis which have Marriott + Vistana + Interval properties.
For responding to this post I simply filtered out the Bonvoy CAT-5 resorts some of which happen to have Interval Gold/Elite ratings.
 

controller1

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Apologies for the confusion.

The Gold/Elite designations are INTERVAL ratings.

Yes, but the "Gold level" quoted in the email from Vistana was referring to Gold within the Marriott Bonvoy program.
 

Mroze

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Yes, but the "Gold level" quoted in the email from Vistana was referring to Gold within the Marriott Bonvoy program.
Understood.

These are different from the
VSN Elite-Levels
  • 3-Star: 159K-SO
  • 4-Star: 359K-SO
  • 5-Star: 649K-SO
Marriott Bonvoy Levels
  • Silver
  • Gold
  • Platinum [Suite-Upgrades, Breakfast, Lounge]
  • Titanium [Suite-Upgrades, Breakfast, Lounge]
  • *Ambassador

* Not really a level
Gold used to have good benefits like Lounge-Access + Breakfast, however, when Marriott merged the s systems [SPG + Rewards] they devalued Gold and created Titanium + Ambassador.
 

controller1

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Understood.

These are different from the
VSN Elite-Levels
  • 3-Star: 159K-SO
  • 4-Star: 359K-SO
  • 5-Star: 649K-SO
Marriott Bonvoy Levels
  • Silver
  • Gold
  • Platinum
  • Titanium
  • *Ambassador

* Not really a level

I realize what you said. But take it in context please.

1) Vistana email states a resale will not result in "automatic Gold level".
2) @CPNY then immediately states in the next post "the gold elite only gives you a 2PM check in"

That is why I posted what I did. The Vistana email was not addressing automatic Gold level within II. The email was addressing automatic Gold level within the Marriott Bonvoy program which is afforded any developer purchase.
 

CPNY

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Here's a thread that discusses the Pros/Cons of converting SO->Bonvoy.

It depends on the specific resort and #SO accrued and also depends on the amount paid in MF.
For me using Westin Lagunamar [WLR: Annual-MF $1490 for 148.1K] I receive almost 240K Bonvoy-Points.
That's 10-Nights [including 2-Free-Nights] in a CAT-5 Marriott/Westin [Retail ~$2500 Including Fees/Taxes] for $1500 in MF. $1000-Savings.

Wouldn't normally exchange my SO for Bonvoy, however, if I am short it is the best value.
The PointsGuy values each Bonvoy-Point at $0.008 as a good price to purchase Bonvoy-Points, but the WLR-SO conversion is even better at $0.006273.
Ok you got me there lol. That’s a good conversion
 

CPNY

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As far as Gold Elite I believe you're confusing the Marriott Bonvoy program with the Vistana Elite program. The Gold Elite that comes with a developer purchase is Gold Elite within the Marriott Bonvoy (hotel) program. It has several benefits for those staying in hotels but a 2:00 pm check-in is not one of them. Within the Vistana Elite program a 2:00 pm check-in is afforded to 4-Star (minimum of 359,000 StarOptions) and 5-Star Elite (minimum of 649,000 StarOptions) members.
Sorry I mean 2pm check out. Yes, I’m talking bonvoy program not vistana elite
 

CPNY

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I realize what you said. But take it in context please.

1) Vistana email states a resale will not result in "automatic Gold level".
2) @CPNY then immediately states in the next post "the gold elite only gives you a 2PM check in"

That is why I posted what I did. The Vistana email was not addressing automatic Gold level within II. The email was addressing automatic Gold level within the Marriott Bonvoy program which is afforded any developer purchase.
One typo can set off a long Chain of confusion. The automatic gold elite in the bonvoy program isn’t exactly a huge selling point. That’s all I’m saying.
 

pchung6

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Are you looking for CAT-5 Resorts only or also CAT-5 Hotels?
Following are the CAT-5 [including CAT-4] Resorts. As for hotels you would need to narrow down the location as there are too many worldwide to list.

Thanks. I found a good Cat-5 Westin Tashee Resort in Taiwan that I will visit in December and January, and will use one of my Cat-5 7 nights package for this stay. It's one of the safest places to visit right now, hopefully it will be the same in December. I will probably use the other Cat-5 7 nights package for Sheraton Kauai Coconut Beach Resort next year to extend my 2 weeks Westin Ka'anapali stay if Marriott let me extend the travel package.
 
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