• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

VIP Status versus Presidential Reserve

Dedibble

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Lawrence, ks
Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham? Is it because of the Presidential Reserve? It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve. While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts. We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all! is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more? need some feedback on this one
 

Dedibble

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Lawrence, ks
VIP Status Values may be not valuable after all

Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham? Is it because of the Presidential Reserve? It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve. While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts. We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all! is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more? need some feedback on this one

just saying!
 

learnalot

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
1,388
Reaction score
54
Location
Pacific Northwest
Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham? Is it because of the Presidential Reserve? It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve. While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts. We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all! is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more? need some feedback on this one

No. The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether. The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals. Pretty disgusting.
 

rrlongwell

newbie
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
2,770
Reaction score
1
Location
Mechanicsburg, Pa.
No. The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether. The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals. Pretty disgusting.

I am a platinum member and have been in a VIP status since mid 2009. I do not believe I have ever used (not counting stuff through RCI) any non-discounted units. Except for the Summer months, I have no trouble getting into the resorts that I use (Old Alexendria, National Harbor, Shawnee Village, Atlantic City, and Williamsburg). I have not had any trouble getting into the stray other resorts that my family and guests or us may want. I have been lucky on getting things through the Summer months so far also, just need to be flexable. For Platinum members, the 30 day to 60 day out period is where there is the availability and also where the very frequent upgrades occur on the discounted reservation.

I believe the Presidential Reserve Units are available in the regular inventory after the specified number of days/months pass for the Presential Reserve priority reservations. See page 317 of the members directory.

For me, I am turning our 1 million plus points into 2 million plus usage plus free upgrades.
 
Last edited:

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
No. The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether. The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals. Pretty disgusting.

They are supposed to wait until the 60 day mark

(from the trust agreement)

wyndham%20use%20rule.jpg


I noticed a bunch dissapearing in LasVegas on day 61. so I suspect what learnalot says is true

However if you have the points there is a trick you cn play to make your own inventory

You can get your discounts you just have to learn how to play the game

Make a reservation for a one bedroom and a three bedroom for exactly the same time period..do this months in advance....at about day 50 cancel and rebook the smaller unit and get your 50% discount, then cancel the larger unit and immediately hit the upgrade button for the smaller unit...you should then be upgraded back into the unit you just cancelled

The end result is that you can have a 3 bedroom unit for half the number of points that a one bedroom would cost
There is the danger that in the few seconds it takes to cancel and rebook or cancel and upgrade, someone will beat you to the punch....worst case though, is that you will have to stay in a smaller unit when you really wanted a larger one, or that you lose smaller unit and have to pay full freight for the larger unit

I wouldnt do this if you are traveling with a group and really need the larger unit...but usually its just my wife and me....we want the two bedroom but we could rough it in a one
 
Last edited:

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
duplicate post..sorry
 
Last edited:

Dedibble

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Lawrence, ks
They are supposed to wait until the 60 day mark

(from the trust agreement)

rB9IazauM8F0vESjbYmYKbCxbRRr5QSflsCXuV1ZDnQ


I noticed a bunch dissapearing in LasVegas on day 61. so I suspect what learnalot says is true

However if you have the points there is a trick you cn play to make your own inventory

You can get your discounts you just have to learn how to play the game

Make a reservation for a one bedroom and a three bedroom for exactly the same time period..do this months in advance....at about day 50 cancel and rebook the smaller unit and get your 50% discount, then cancel the larger unit and immediately hit the upgrade button for the smaller unit...you should then be upgraded back into the unit you just cancelled

The end result is that you can have a 3 bedroom unit for half the number of points that a one bedroom would cost
There is the danger that in the few seconds it takes to cancel and rebook or cancel and upgrade, someone will beat you to the punch....worst case though, is that you will have to stay in a smaller unit when you really wanted a larger one, or that you lose smaller unit and have to pay full freight for the larger unit

I wouldnt do this if you are traveling with a group and really need the larger unit...but usually its just my wife and me....we want the two bedroom but we could rough it in a one

well I have tried that trick only to lose a one bedroom I had booked at the same time as a 2 bedroom. Luckily I had the 2 bdrm still sitting there and didn't want to risk canceling that 2 bdrm in hopes of getting it back right away and get the discount. Our thing is we like to stay in Palm Aire 4 to 6 weeks. My only problem is I don't have enough points to "double book" . I think I was able to get 2 out of 4 weeks discounted. Do you think the Wyndham access program is a cause of lack of availability?
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
well I have tried that trick only to lose a one bedroom I had booked at the same time as a 2 bedroom. Luckily I had the 2 bdrm still sitting there and didn't want to risk canceling that 2 bdrm in hopes of getting it back right away and get the discount. Our thing is we like to stay in Palm Aire 4 to 6 weeks. My only problem is I don't have enough points to "double book" . I think I was able to get 2 out of 4 weeks discounted. Do you think the Wyndham access program is a cause of lack of availability?



I wouldnt expect a discount for any reservations except those that no one else wants...ie stuff that hasnt been reserved 60 days ahead of check in..Thats why they offer the discount, to get you to occupy a unit that they havent been able to sell at full price...Since Florida in season is a popular place..its not surprising that there is no inventory left to discount 60 days out let alone a month

No I dont think Club Wyndham Access is your problem..Club Wyndham access inventory and Select inventory are all in the same pool of availability at the 10 month to 60 day mark...The problem is the competition of the Wyndham rental department

I think the biggest problem is that a Wyndham salesman led you to believe that you could always get a discount at any resort at any time with a Platinum ownership...Thats just not true

If however you are willing and able to make your plans at the last minute, and are not too particular where you stay and you are willing to move from room to room or resort to resort every week, you can probably always get a discount...but thats not what any of us want to do..I make most of my reservations either 10 months in advance, with no discount because its something I really want, or I watch for cancellations just ahead of the 15 day mark, to get a discount... that when I dont care where I go

I have played the double book: cancel and rebook; cancel and upgrade game and gotten away with it, but I dont like to do it...Its not worth the grief Id have to take from my wife if I blew it and we had to stay home
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,700
Location
Northeast USA
There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".

Remember, Wyndham's biggest sale "hook" is the Discovery package - where do you think all those great weeks come from for those clients - who never heard of APR or 10 month booking at 7AM? They think you just call their 1-800 number and get a beach week in March 3 weeks later.

I would just love to hear their feelings when they are no longer part of the "special people" ...
 

dr_adventure

newbie
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
Location
Eureka
I too get 50% on every reservation now that I'm experienced - I use to not know the process well enough.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".
QUOTE]


It would be interesting to hear from folks who lost a reservation trying to cancel and rebook. I lost one at Ocean Walk just like that. I called the Wyndham reservations number and was told Ocean Walk overbooks. I'm wondering if this is commonly done at other resorts and under what circumstances. I've been successful sixty or seventy times and lost out just that once.

I must admit that I hit that "Cancel" button with some trepidation now. Like hoping your parachute will open, I suppose.
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,700
Location
Northeast USA
There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".
... I've been successful sixty or seventy times and lost out just that once....

I have LOST 4 in the last 5 weeks (and only 1 for years before). And 3 of those agents who say they have NEVER lost one, are no longer virgins. I think their computer code has been "improved" in Wyndham's eyes. Corporate Wyndham wants the GOOD STUFF, too (and has read the covenants, too).

Why do you think they implemented the NO DOUBLE BOOKING inside the 14 day checkin window or OVERLAP booking because they had empty units from owners cancelling? No, it is because with internet booking, they can harvest the RENTORs who book at the very last minute who pay MORE for a condo.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Linda and Jim

Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted reservation before you even try to rent it?

Like Jim, I push the cancel button with some trepidation. and I dont push it at all if Ive rented the reservation to someone...

I have several people checking in for Mardi Gras today...The reservations were made 10 months ago and have been rented for 6 months...I didnt even try for a discount. I felt the risk was too great
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,133
Reaction score
1,545
The risk is huge.

I am always looking for great reservations to pop up inside 60 days.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
Linda and Jim

Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted reservation before you even try to rent it?

If I can't rebook, I'm out of business. My pricing depends on being able to rebook at 50%. If I list a unit at the non-discounted price, my prices would be like most everyone else's prices.

I am extremely cautious of peak seasons and event weeks at Ocean Walk, which is where I got burned. Otherwise, I rebook rented units, even when I've been paid. Based on what others are saying now, maybe I need to change my business practices and not list/rent until I've successfully rebooked. That of course would mean there is only a 45 day window to rent.

Like Ron Parise, I played the BCS Championship (six reservations) and NCAA Final Four (ten reservations) in New Orleans. Miraculously, all were rebooked with no problem.

I made some Ocean Walk reservations for the 2013 Daytona 500 and for Bike Week 2013 for a knowledgable customer, one who understands the discounts from rebooking. I told him he bore the risk of losing a reservation -- he may find himself without a place to stay 60 days before the event. In this case, I don't expect to be paid until I've successfully rebooked.

I think we need to create a list of the resorts and reservation dates (or event) where rebooking has failed.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil

jjmanthei05

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
1,289
Reaction score
1
Location
WI
One other thing to look at is what resorts don't rent through extra holidays. For example it isn't possible to rent Glacier canyon through extra holidays so there wouldn't be a reason for them to try and grab the canceled inventory.

Jason
 

kev5982

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
146
Reaction score
0
Location
pittsburgh,pa
I lost a three bedroom at Bonnet Creek over Christmas week trying the rebooking trick. It used to always work, now over the past year the upgrade is not always there.

I tell my wife it’s like throwing it into the air and trying to catch it without being able to see it.

My rental prices are all based on the 50% discounted points, so I list my rentals as being booked 60 days out from check in. If I can't get the discounted points, I don't rent it.

Bonnet Creek is probably the easiest resort to rent through because of all the availability. So it usually works out best if I went through this resort only.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
<snip>
My rental prices are all based on the 50% discounted points, so I list my rentals as being booked 60 days out from check in. If I can't get the discounted points, I don't rent it.
<snip>

So, you book way before check-in and list way before check-in but in your listing you say you won't complete the transaction until inside 60 days? Or, do you wait until the 60 day point to even list the reservation?

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both.
 

Sandi Bo

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
5,492
Reaction score
5,486
Location
Omaha
Resorts Owned
Wyndham
I lost 2 at Bonnet Creek Christmas week. Had not rented them yet, but frustrating to tie so many points up for months only to lose them.

I booked an extra room for our family vacation, just in case, that was Ocean Walk in August, and rebooked 5 rooms no problem. (Amidst family threats of yes do it but don't screw up our vacation - gotta love it). Kept the extra room and kids got a little extra space/no one on couches (and loved it, probably spoiled them).

What scares me most is the capture routine Linda spoke of - I've heard of that before and wondered if it were true. Can't win at that game.

But all in all I have stretched our points (actually my Dad's) unbelievably. I think it's safe to say we never pay full points.

And about the Presidential Reserve. IMO, adding a level above VIP does devalue the VIP (well, i guess devalues everyones points). I hate to say this, but I do wonder if you are VIP Platinum, what it would cost to upgrade to Pres Reserve and if it's worth it. Some day I will find out, not in the near near future, but kicking around in my head (thoughts of future expansion).
 
Last edited:

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
I lost 2 at Bonnet Creek Christmas week. Had not rented them yet, but frustrating to tie so many points up for months only to lose them.

I booked an extra room for our family vacation, just in case, that was Ocean Walk in August, and rebooked 5 rooms no problem. (Amidst family threats of yes do it but don't screw up our vacation - gotta love it). Kept the extra room and kids got a little extra space/no one on couches (and loved it, probably spoiled them).

What scares me most is the capture routine Linda spoke of - I've heard of that before and wondered if it were true. Can't win at that game.

But all in all I have stretched our points (actually my Dad's) unbelievably. I think it's safe to say we never pay full points.

And about the Presidential Reserve. IMO, adding a level above VIP does devalue the VIP (well, i guess devalues everyones points). I hate to say this, but I do wonder if you are VIP Platinum, what it would cost to upgrade to Pres Reserve and if it's worth it. Some day I will find out, not in the near near future, but kicking around in my head (thoughts of future expansion).

I haven't come to a conclusion yet about the relative value of PresRes status. I will say that I've made a lot of reservations at places I wouldn't otherwise have been able to make. There are some resorts where PresRes units are the only thing available for prime weeks or weekends.

The presidential units seem to be very popular. They rent easily and typically for more than the points difference although I'd need another year or two to say more certainly. A downside is that you tie up an incredible number of points for a long time -- 350K-450K per reservation for 3BR Pres units at say, Panama City Beach.

I'm don't agree that PresRes diminishes the value of VIP Platinum. They are quite different in concept. A VIP Platinum member is no worse off because of the existence of the PresRes program.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".


I have LOST 4 in the last 5 weeks (and only 1 for years before). And 3 of those agents who say they have NEVER lost one, are no longer virgins. I think their computer code has been "improved" in Wyndham's eyes. Corporate Wyndham wants the GOOD STUFF, too (and has read the covenants, too).

Why do you think they implemented the NO DOUBLE BOOKING inside the 14 day checkin window or OVERLAP booking because they had empty units from owners cancelling? No, it is because with internet booking, they can harvest the RENTORs who book at the very last minute who pay MORE for a condo.

I think Wyndham should love to have last minute cancellations and no-shows. No housekeeping, no wear and tear on the facilities, less for the front desk to do for the same revenue.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,406
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
Linda and Jim

Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted reservation before you even try to rent it?

Like Jim, I push the cancel button with some trepidation. and I dont push it at all if Ive rented the reservation to someone...

I have several people checking in for Mardi Gras today...The reservations were made 10 months ago and have been rented for 6 months...I didnt even try for a discount. I felt the risk was too great

Of course Mardi Gras is a totally atypical situation. People will pay enough for Mardi Gras so you can make money even without the discount, quite different from the summer vacation at Daytona or Myrtle Beach where Dad is trying to find the best deal. And the best deal on a prime week is going to come from someone who rebooked.
 
Last edited:
Top