Very disappointed with Four Seasons Aviara exchange

[vacationlover2]

Hi all,

I also posted this in the other timeshare forum but not many people read that so I wanted to post it here as well.

I exchanged into the Four Seasons Aviara about a year ago for March 30, 2012. One of the reasons I did so was for their awesome kids' club, which is included free. I even called before I confirmed the exchange to find out if that was still the case, because I knew Park Hyatt had taken over the hotel. Now I find out that as of the beginning of this year, there is a $40 per child charge for a half day and $80 for full day.

I have 2 children, and this is a no go for me. I would put them in there for an hour or so while me and hubby exercised. I'm not paying $80 to exercise. This really stinks. I called Four Seasons and they said I have to take it up with interval, because honestly, I would not have done this exchange. I would have gone to Newport Coast instead, since they have a kid's club. I know I'd have to stay with the kids, but atleast there would be one for them to go to. Now we have nothing.

Thanks for letting me vent

 

[4dabirds]

You called the resort directly and explained the situation and they offered you no recourse? There just seems like something could be done on a case-by-case basis by speaking directly with management on-site. We have had so many wonderful vacations there and the level of service was always ridiculously high. One time we called to ask how to turn on the bbq, and they sent over a chef to cook our salmon... you would think the new management would know that was what people are used to and find a way to (at the very least) meet in the middle.

 

[vacationlover2]

The problem is that the Four Seasons no longer runs the hotel. So I called Residence Club and asked if I couldn't be granfathered in to the free kid's club since I booked back in June 2011 when it was free. They said they have no control over the hotel side.

Of course, I am finding this out 3 days before our vacation and nothing else is available. I am very upset. No recourse. II offered to cancel the exchange and refund the money (of course I have $1400 worth of plane tix I would lose) or give me an AC. I took the AC even though I won't be able to use it. I am booked through 2013, lol.

 

[UWSurfer]

Seems to me you have a couple of choices once you arrive.

Check with the concierge and see if they have a list of baby sitters they trust and hire one for an hour or two, costing maybe $20 or so & giving you alone time away from the kids....or,

...work out separately with one of you taking turns being with the kids.

I'd be disappointed too, but I would also try not to let this little wrinkle derail your vacation.

 

[LLW]

Seems to me you have a couple of choices once you arrive.

Check with the concierge and see if they have a list of baby sitters they trust and hire one for an hour or two, costing maybe $20 or so & giving you alone time away from the kids....or,

...work out separately with one of you taking turns being with the kids.

I'd be disappointed too, but I would also try not to let this little wrinkle derail your vacation.

I agree. A third choice would be exercising less, either taking turns exercising or hiring a babysitter while exercising. Beats disappointing the kids 3 days before the start of what they expected to be a fantastic vacation (because of what you have built up to them?). If you map it out right you shouldn't be missing that many days of workout.

Unfortunately, it sounds you are caught in a tug of war between Hyatt and Four Seasons. Given the bad blood of how the hotel got away from Four Seasons, this is disappointing but not surprising.

I would also try one more time when you are there talking to a front desk or kids club employee, hoping for the old customer service culture to die hard at the low levels. Although, this might have come up before, resulting in clear, firm instructions to the employees, especially since it's Park Hyatt you are dealing with and not Four Seasons.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

all four seasons can control are the services it provides

im kind of surprised they havent created a kids club, i wonder if its been raised with owners

 

[VacationForever]

Four Seasons has no control over the Hyatt hotel end. Not their fault. My advice is to just pay up and enjoy yourselves for the half or full day. If you normally exercise daily, make that 3-4 days instead.

 

[tschwa2]

all four seasons can control are the services it provides

im kind of surprised they havent created a kids club, i wonder if its been raised with owners

Yes and no. As with any services provided outside of the resort (and this was the same when FS managed the hotel) there would have been some kind of agreement to provide the services to TS owners, exchangers, and guests and the owners paid for the services as part of the MF. It's easier to negotiate when the same company is managing both entities. If FS tried in good faith to negotiate the use of the Hyatt's kids club but were unsuccessful it is out of their hands.

 

[carl2591]

Four Seasons Aviara,

That blows for sure.. Try not to let this spoil you vacation,, this sounds like a real nice place to stay even with the change of plans.. heck its a vacation if you miss a week of hard working out it will not be the end of world..

might even be nice for a change and then when you get back home hit it again like normal..

do be sure to submit a review on tug for other to see as well.. if this is an RCI exchange do one on their site as well. if you mention TUG at all they will delete the review..

another place is on RCI facebook page. post your comments about the change there as well it might help prevent someone else the disappointment you are experiencing.

hope it goes well and enjoy..

 

[alwysonvac]

The new fee applies to Hyatt Resort guests and Four Seasons Residence Club owners.

From the February 2012 FSRC newsletter

Changes at Camp Hyatt for Kids

Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara has been informed by Park Hyatt Resort Aviara that they will now be charging all Resort guests as well as Residence Club owners a fee for its Camp Hyatt childcare services. Camp Hyatt is available to children ages 4 – 12 years old.

Following are the 2012 rates as well as hours of operation.

Full Day: $80.00 per child (includes lunch) 9:00 am – 5:00 pm
AM Half Day: $50.00 per child (includes lunch) 9:00 am – 1:00 pm
AM Half Day: $40.00 per child (does not include lunch) 9:00 am – 12:00 pm
PM Half Day: $40.00 per child (does not include lunch) 1:00 pm – 5:00 pm
Camp hours of operation (not including holidays, Spring Break or during the Summer) are Fridays from 1:00 pm until 5:00 pm, and Saturdays and Sundays from 9:00 am until 5:00 pm.

During Spring Break (March 16 – April 29), Thanksgiving (November 11 – November 25), and the Christmas/New Year holiday (December 21 – January 1), Camp Hyatt will be open daily from 9:00 am until 5:00 pm.

 

[alwysonvac]

Enjoy your upcoming stay

Additional info from the FSRC Feb Newsletter:

Calendar of Events - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_Calendar_of_Events.pdf

On-Site Activities and Fitness Schedule for March - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_March_2012_OS_calendar.pdf

On-Site Activities and Fitness Schedule for April - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_April_2012_OS_calendar.pdf

New In Town
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[vacationlover2]

The thing that gets me is all the nickel and diming. The Four Seasons in Scottsdale has daily activities for kids with no fees. Bingo, golf tournament, etc. and they offer wonderful prizes? This is in addition to the wonderful and free kids club. If I owned at Aviara I would be livid. Even my much more inexpensive Marriotts offer free activities.

 

[tombo]

Don't pay for baby sitting service to exercise. Missing a few days or a week will not take years off of your life. Instead spend every minute of your vacation with your kids because as your parents tell you, your kids will be grown before you know it. It seems like my kids were sitting on my lap last year, and now both are gone and married. I look back with regret upon many things I could have done with my kids when they were small that I was too busy to do then. If I could only go back in time and have another chance..... They do grow up way too fast.

Missing a day or week of exercises is not something you will regret years from now. Time that you could have spent with your children that you did not take advantage of will probably be sorelly missed as your kids get older. IMO they did you a favor. Have a great family trip.

 

[siesta]

I remember when the park hyatt switch was announced and owners said that since it was just hotel changing management this wouldnt effect owners and exchangers staying on the FS side. Well this policy change, and moreover, the lack of wilingness to accomodate what surely should be an exception just goes to show that the vacation experience HAS changed, and who knows what more surprises are to come.

 

[vacationlover2]

No offense, Tombo, but I spend plenty of time with my kids. My kids absolutely LOVE the kids club. We go to the Four Seasons in Scottsdale and they clamor to go there. We get a great mix of kid time and alone time there.

My biggest issue here is that I planned this trip specifically around the kids club. I had gone three years ago with my Mom and we enjoyed exercising while the kids were in the club and then one day we enjoyed the adult pool for a couple hours.

I have been talking this up to my husband all these months and now no go.

 

[LisaH]

Sounds like you will be Ok with Marriott Newport Coast. Why not ask II if they can switch you to that resort so you can use the kids club? Personally I would not do this. If your kids really like the kids club experience and if you like the resort, paying each for half a day may not be so bad if all else fails.

 

[vacationlover2]

I did call II. They had nothing. I wanted to switch to Newport.

 

[bogey21]

One of the problems with buying (or exchanging) into one of the "chain" Time Share Resorts is the changes ordered from on high. As many of you know I dumped my Marriott Weeks years ago when they changed their Rental and Sales Programs to the detriment of owners.

My advice is to buy only independent Resorts that are controlled by their HOAs. Two benefits - first, the cost of your Week is way less, and second, any changes in operations will be made by Owners, not Corporate bean counters.

George

 

[jaym]

Don't pay for baby sitting service to exercise. Missing a few days or a week will not take years off of your life. Instead spend every minute of your vacation with your kids because as your parents tell you, your kids will be grown before you know it. It seems like my kids were sitting on my lap last year, and now both are gone and married. I look back with regret upon many things I could have done with my kids when they were small that I was too busy to do then. If I could only go back in time and have another chance..... They do grow up way too fast.

Missing a day or week of exercises is not something you will regret years from now. Time that you could have spent with your children that you did not take advantage of will probably be sorelly missed as your kids get older. IMO they did you a favor. Have a great family trip.

tombo- I think you do make a good point. I can relate to your comments as well.
However, unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems to me the OP isn't seeking others advice or suggestions on how best to handle the unanticipated activity fees. But rather, simply to vent to others about the FSRC policy change and disgust about the new fee for kid's activity time.
The response below by vacationlover2 to your comment here also appears to be indicating they already spend sufficient time and are seeking time away from the kids during the upcoming vacation. I can relate to that as well! One can certainly have an hour or two to themselves, you've earned the break and need to make the most of your downtime.
But to me, the question becomes if it is unavoidable, resort will not make exceptions, then do you simply pay the fee to get what you want or do you get frustrated further and let it detract from your vacation experiences?!

 

[alwysonvac]

The thing that gets me is all the nickel and diming. The Four Seasons in Scottsdale has daily activities for kids with no fees. Bingo, golf tournament, etc. and they offer wonderful prizes? This is in addition to the wonderful and free kids club. If I owned at Aviara I would be livid. Even my much more inexpensive Marriotts offer free activities.

I'm sorry you're disappointed.

But honestly, as an Aviara owner, those things are not important to me and I don't want my maintenance fees to cover things that the Four Season hotel used to offer for free. My maintenance fee is high enough already.

 

[Pmuppet]

Definitely sucks to have a feature pulled out from you with limited warning. I would be upset to if i were you.

That is the life of timeshares though, and another example of why timeshares should be disounted significantly when you try to decide to buy or not. Cause features you love and add value for your family, can be gone tomorrow. Wonder what four season owners think about the resort they bought into changing to the Hyatt, probably not positive.

I do agree with the previous poster though if i were an owner, i would vote against this service. This service isnt cheap and probably carries a significant lability insurance. Charge a reasonable amount for childcare, but they should charge something.

 

[rickandcindy23]

We have stayed at many Marriott resorts over the years and have rarely seen free activities. Even the ice cream social at the Marriott in Branson cost more money than I was willing to pay. They always have some BBQ at the Marriotts that has a cost, too. Activities aren't free where we stayed.

Four Seasons is a top resort and probably the third best exchange we ever had. I don't expect a resort to entertain me and provide exercise classes as an exchanger. I have never been to an activity at the DVC resorts in my life, yet we have stayed at DVC (own DVC), and know they have activities. I always have a full agenda before we ever arrive, so planned activities are not in the cards for us or our kids/ grandkids.

 

[tschwa2]

I'm sorry you're disappointed.

But honestly, as an Aviara owner, those things are not important to me and I don't want my maintenance fees to cover things that the Four Season hotel used to offer for free. My maintenance fee is high enough already.

I am sure the hotel next door was never providing it for free. As a timeshare "owner" you pay for every expense that is incurred. If there was no line item expense in the budget, you can be sure it was either included as an "other" fee or the TS was providing services that were paid for by owners to the hotel guests as a swap.

Now Hyatt may have wanted more money to provide the same service "for free" to TS occupants or there may be such bad blood that they wouldn't provide it as a blanket service to all TS occupants or they may not have staffing levels to provide and the separate fees keep the usage down.

In the world of TS w/o an independent HOA board, any expense that can be charged as part of MF's with a 10% added fee to the management is going to be added.

 

[GregGH]

I am sure the hotel next door was never providing it for free. As a timeshare "owner" you pay for every expense that is incurred. If there was no line item expense in the budget, you can be sure it was either included as an "other" fee or the TS was providing services that were paid for by owners to the hotel guests as a swap.

Now Hyatt may have wanted more money to provide the same service "for free" to TS occupants or there may be such bad blood that they wouldn't provide it as a blanket service to all TS occupants or they may not have staffing levels to provide and the separate fees keep the usage down.

In the world of TS w/o an independent HOA board, any expense that can be charged as part of MF's with a 10% added fee to the management is going to be added.

Hi Tschawa

a fair number of mis-statements above
1) Four Seasons as a brand provides a lot of comp items ( after all the price is ...well ...five star... ) ... Hyatt does not ...they added this charge to BOTH their HOTEL GUESTS and to Aviara .... this is on TOP of their charge for the SPA-Showers they added a while back!!!!
2) the 'bad blood' is not really between FS and Hyatt ... it is FS and Broadreach Capital ( the owners - who want to cheap out - gotta love those Real Estate Hedge funds ... ). Hyatt is stuck in an awkward position to keep cutting costs to keep the cash coming to the owners.
3) Aviara has an owner based HOA. I have attended past meetings as an owner.

As a multi-week owner at Aviara we hated to see the hotel change hands ... but we pick ourselves up and get on with life. In fact we just bought 2 more weeks last month.

I continue to be a fan of the focus that FS brings to this industry - I continue to be impressed by them.

Greg
ps-when you get Lemon's - make Lemonade ... don't let things out of your control ruin your attitude.

 

[bdh]

Definitely sucks to have a feature pulled out from you with limited warning. I would be upset to if i were you.

That is the life of timeshares though, and another example of why timeshares should be disounted significantly when you try to decide to buy or not. Cause features you love and add value for your family, can be gone tomorrow. Wonder what four season owners think about the resort they bought into changing to the Hyatt, probably not positive.

I do agree with the previous poster though if i were an owner, i would vote against this service. This service isnt cheap and probably carries a significant lability insurance. Charge a reasonable amount for childcare, but they should charge something.

From reading the various other posts in this thread, I'm thinking there are a variety of misconceptions in this one.

This resort has two entities - a hotel and a TS. Both had the same management company until a couple of years ago when the owners of the hotel removed Four Seasons and installed Hyatt. Management of the TS property did not change and is still a Four Seasons.

The kids club is a service run by the hotel and the TS owners do not control or vote on the service. There was notification of the change for the Four Seasons TS owners - but someone coming in on an exchange would not be aware of a service change provided by an adjacent separate entity.