Vero Beach - Good bang for buck?

[simon.fisher.2]

So my wife and have a 160 point contract at AKV and would like to buy more points. I have seen listings for Vero at approx $50 per point. I have seen some relatively decent contracts go for between $5-10k. The maint. expense is clearly the highest, but the low price seems attractive. Is it worth looking at Vero if we only plan to use the points at properties other than Vero? What am I missing?


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[presley]

Vero has extremely high MFs. If it gets hit by a hurricane, you can expect those to go up even more. I think it is a bad purchase if you don't plan on staying there on a regular basis.

 

[Ty1on]

So my wife and have a 160 point contract at AKV and would like to buy more points. I have seen listings for Vero at approx $50 per point. I have seen some relatively decent contracts go for between $5-10k. The maint. expense is clearly the highest, but the low price seems attractive. Is it worth looking at Vero if we only plan to use the points at properties other than Vero? What am I missing?


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I will be interested in hearing informed responses to this, too. I've been looking at DVC contracts, and Vero Beach seem to resell lower per point than AK, AND seems to have lower avg MF per point.

 

[MichaelColey]

While DVC upfront costs are higher than most timeshares, the biggest expense over a typical ownership will still be the maintenance fees. That should be one of your biggest concerns. I would rather pay $60-70 per point and have MFs around $5 than to pay $50 per point and have MFs around $8.

You're going to pay higher MFs for as long as you own it.

 

[Ty1on]

While DVC upfront costs are higher than most timeshares, the biggest expense over a typical ownership will still be the maintenance fees. That should be one of your biggest concerns. I would rather pay $60-70 per point and have MFs around $5 than to pay $50 per point and have MFs around $8.

You're going to pay higher MFs for as long as you own it.

There we go. On the listings I was using, I was treating Closing Costs as MF. This makes much more sense now.

 

[silentg]

We stayed at Disney's Vero Beach on an RCI exchange a few years ago, you should try exchanging in there before purchasing. If you are buying just for points, you could look into some of the other DVCs that might have lower Maintenence. The beach was nice but I remember a steep climb down and up the sand dunes to get there. We went in April, what time of year are you looking at?
Silentg

 

[simon.fisher.2]

The maint. is a concern. I have not been to this resort and I likely will only go once or twice. I simply just want more points. We love BLT but the price of the points is much greater than I prefer. We purchased AKV because it seemed to be a good bang for the buck. I am contemplating purchasing another 160 points, but not sure where. I want to have the best value and not Saratoga. (Sorry SS lovers - it just isn't for me)

We paid cash for our first purchase, but are considering financing the next purchase. We are indecisive on that. Has anyone used the financing companies? What do you recommend?

Thanks

 

[SMHarman]

Financing will push your real cost of points through the roof.

With the ability to bank borrow and rent in the DVC you should be better off obtaining what you need without buying more.

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[Ty1on]

I hope this table posts as formatted. This is based on 107 listings on one site. Amortizing the upfront cost over 10 years (NOT adjusted for inflation), and adding current MF rate to get a total cost per year assuming depleted value at the end of 10 years (which won't happen)....Vero Beach doesn't come out that bad, a little lower than AK and a little higher than HHI and OKW. OKW seems to be the best in terms of blended cost per point.

-----------------Up Front--10 Year Avg---MF----Total Ann Cost PP
Animal Kingdom----$78.69----$7.87------$6.30------$14.17
Aulani Resort------$94.49----$9.45------$6.39------$15.84
Bay Lake Tower---$106.88---$10.69-----$5.05------$15.74
Beach Club Villas--$103.00---$10.30-----$5.98------$16.28
Boardwalk Villas---$112.88---$11.29-----$6.07------$17.36
Grand Californian $128.76---$12.88-----$5.15------$18.03
Grand Floridian----$135.13---$13.51-----$5.52------$19.03
Hilton Head-------$63.59----$6.36-------$6.52------$12.88
Old Key West-----$71.08----$7.11-------$5.84------$12.95
Saratoga Springs--$81.05----$8.11-------$5.18------$13.29
Vero Beach-------$52.42----$5.24-------$8.06------$13.30
Wilderness Lodge--$75.94----$7.59------$6.03-------$13.62

Aand of course it doesn't post as formatted.

 

[Kendall in Texas]

Aand of course it doesn't post as formatted.

Close enough. And very good information. Is trading as easy in DVC as it is in HGVC?

 

[Ty1on]

Close enough. And very good information. Is trading as easy in DVC as it is in HGVC?

Nah I went back in and added dashes to make it readable. It initially looked like a numeric salad.

By the way, a histogram of contract size vs price doesn't seem to yield any pattern indicating that larger contracts are any better a buy than smaller ones. based on the sample.

 

[freediverdude]

Well since DVC is anywhere from a 27-50 year contract, it would seem better to figure the costs over the number of years you're going to use it, or even the whole contract if you're going to pass it on after your death. When you do this the resorts with the longer contracts start to come down in cost, and resorts like Vero start to figure quite a bit higher. Plus Disney is likely to offer extensions if you desire that, so that could figure into your plans as well.

 

[Ty1on]

Well since DVC is anywhere from a 27-50 year contract, it would seem better to figure the costs over the number of years you're going to use it, or even the whole contract if you're going to pass it on after your death. When you do this the resorts with the longer contracts start to come down in cost, and resorts like Vero start to figure quite a bit higher. Plus Disney is likely to offer extensions if you desire that, so that could figure into your plans as well.

The reason I like the 10 year rule is that it acknowledges that vacation plans don't typically stay stable over 27-50 years. After 10 years, in my humble opinion, the initial investment is water under the bridge even if you continue using or renting out the contract.

The one thing I'm missing is estimating a resale value at the end of the 10 year term. At some point, years remaining on the shorter contract will degrade the resale value of that contract. By how much would be hard to forecast, though.

 

[Ty1on]

Well since DVC is anywhere from a 27-50 year contract, it would seem better to figure the costs over the number of years you're going to use it, or even the whole contract if you're going to pass it on after your death. When you do this the resorts with the longer contracts start to come down in cost, and resorts like Vero start to figure quite a bit higher. Plus Disney is likely to offer extensions if you desire that, so that could figure into your plans as well.

Here is an insight: If you take the following assumptions:

1. Rent points for $11.25 (I read this in a thread somewhere)
2. Salvage value of 50% after 10 years (arbitrary)
3. Amortize the other 50% over 10 years straightline today's dollars

Then the overall average annual profit from buying a Disney contract to rent the points is $97:

Animal Kingdom...............151
Aulani Resort................-102 Loss
Bay Lake Tower...............43
Beach Club Villas..............-7 Loss
Boardwalk Villas..............-47 Loss
Grand Californian............-256 Loss
Grand Floridian...............-285 Loss
Hilton Head.....................281
Old Key West..................342
Saratoga Springs.............262
Vero Beach......................49
Wilderness Lodge.............146

I'm sure with the losing Resorts, the strategy would be to use priority to reserve units and rent them for much higher than the $11.25, but this is just looking at the point system overall with the general $11.25 number.

It would be interesting to find the average Actual (not Listed) owner rental rates for each resort and look at it that way.

 

[freediverdude]

Yes, but if you look at it that way, once the initial cost of ownership is under the bridge after 10 years, then starting the 11th year the cost to use Vero points becomes much higher than the others.

 

[Ty1on]

Yes, but if you look at it that way, once the initial cost of ownership is under the bridge after 10 years, then starting the 11th year the cost to use Vero points becomes much higher than the others.

That would be a fact.

 

[freediverdude]

Really, the safe bet, and the people on the disboards and mouseowners seem to agree about this, is if you're looking for just cheap overall points to use anywhere, the best bang for the buck is Saratoga Springs, followed closely by Bay Lake Tower (because of the low member fees there). Although in my opinion the Bay Lake Tower fees are going up quickly and won't be as much of a point in their favor in the future. But that's if you don't ever care about having a home resort advantage for booking any one place.

 

[capjak]

Ty1on did you use OKW expiration at 2042 or 2057?

Anyway if you rent your points to Dave (well know DVC renter) than you get $13 for resorts in demand (i.e. Beach Club, BWV, Alunai, Grand Frloridian, BLT,) and 11 for the others. For per points I think SSR is a good value.

 

[Ty1on]

Ty1on did you use OKW expiration at 2042 or 2057?

Anyway if you rent your points to Dave (well know DVC renter) than you get $13 for resorts in demand (i.e. Beach Club, BWV, Alunai, Grand Frloridian, BLT,) and 11 for the others. For per points I think SSR is a good value.

I didnt use either because I didnt amortize over the full life.

 

[Ty1on]

I didnt use either because I didnt amortize over the full life.

And thanks for the rental info. I'll update my model tomorrow.

 

[Myxdvz]

The best bang for the buck is SSR. VB has cheaper buy in, but since MF's are the real cost, it will eventually catch up.

If you are not planning to go to VB and just use it for extra points -- then why does it matter whether or not you like SSR? You just said you don't care about the home resort?

The only reason to buy VB IMO, is if you need 11 month window there and if you really like going there regularly during the peak seasons.

 

[chriskre]

Okay, I am going to give you an opposing opinion from a DVC owner's perspective.

I've seen listings for Vero for $45 a point so 100 point contracts for $4500 to buy into DVC.
100 points can get you 10 nights in a studio in OKW or AKV in a few seasons.
For $8 a point that's $800 a year in MF's.
$80 a night for that OKW studio.
If you add your buy in of $4500 amortized over 10 years that's another $450 a year to your cost. So for $1250 a year you could potentially get 10 nights in a studio at OKW for $125 a night.
You can't beat that with a stick.
The mouse charges at least $250 a night for those rooms most of the year.

If you bought SSR at $77 a point for a 100 points contract then $7700 to buy into DVC.
100 points can get the same OKW studios for 10 nights at 10 points a night.
MF's are roughly $5 a point so $500 a year plus say the $770 to buy in amortized over 10 years.
So for $1270 a year for 10 years you could get that same OKW studio for roughly $127 a night. Not much more than the Vero contract will net you in DVC stays.

In 10 years there will only be 20 years left on that Vero contract.
So say you resell it for $30 a point which I doubt it will be that cheap.
You get your $3000 back and roll it into a better contract.
Of course in 10 years you'd be able to sell SSR for probably closer to what you paid for it since it would still have 30 plus years left on the contract.

IMO Vero is not a bad deal if you are looking to stay in studios and don't have the money to buy at any of the other resorts.

I'd say go for it.

Oh and if you gave it to David to rent you could bank a year's points and give him 200 points which would net you $11 a point or $2200 minus $1600 in MF's or $600 in the years you didn't want to use your DVC.

If you didn't want to use David or the other points brokers you could do it yourself and make anywhere from $10 to $14 if you had the right reservations.
$10 is very easy to get on your own.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Myxdvz]

I was actually surprised that VB stayed at roughly $45 and that SR is now selling at $77. There were even some that were priced at $98! That was almost the same as by developer bought BLT points.

When I was in the market for resale point, OKW was selling for ~$55. SSR even less.

I don't think people are saying OKW is bad. Just that SSR is better/best. Even the Math pointed out by chriske shows that SSR has better gain if not much. And that's only for 10 years. The longer you hold it, the farther the gap.

 

[chalee94]

IMO Vero is not a bad deal if you are looking to stay in studios and don't have the money to buy at any of the other resorts.

it can be an ok deal if you don't travel during the last few months of the year (WDW DVC's busy season) and if things keep going like they have been. but VB is the resort that carries some of the biggest risks... for $45 per pt, maybe it's worth rolling the dice for some, but i don't think i would buy there to use at WDW. i would still go with SSR for a value purchase...

 

[gjw007]

I hope this table posts as formatted. This is based on 107 listings on one site. Amortizing the upfront cost over 10 years (NOT adjusted for inflation), and adding current MF rate to get a total cost per year assuming depleted value at the end of 10 years (which won't happen)....Vero Beach doesn't come out that bad, a little lower than AK and a little higher than HHI and OKW. OKW seems to be the best in terms of blended cost per point.

-----------------Up Front--10 Year Avg---MF----Total Ann Cost PP
Animal Kingdom----$78.69----$7.87------$6.30------$14.17
Aulani Resort------$94.49----$9.45------$6.39------$15.84
Bay Lake Tower---$106.88---$10.69-----$5.05------$15.74
Beach Club Villas--$103.00---$10.30-----$5.98------$16.28
Boardwalk Villas---$112.88---$11.29-----$6.07------$17.36
Grand Californian $128.76---$12.88-----$5.15------$18.03
Grand Floridian----$135.13---$13.51-----$5.52------$19.03
Hilton Head-------$63.59----$6.36-------$6.52------$12.88
Old Key West-----$71.08----$7.11-------$5.84------$12.95
Saratoga Springs--$81.05----$8.11-------$5.18------$13.29
Vero Beach-------$52.42----$5.24-------$8.06------$13.30
Wilderness Lodge--$75.94----$7.59------$6.03-------$13.62

Aand of course it doesn't post as formatted.

I extended this out 10 years to give an idea of the cost of 10 years ownership(the final figure per resort is the total per point including the cost to purchase and the maintenance fees over 10 years). It is assumed that the loan is paid off in 10 years and only the maintenance fees per point will from years 11 on. I used a maintenance increase of 3.5% for each of the resorts but this varies with the resorts as well so the results will be slightly different but it gives a general idea of the cost. Formatting this is a minor pain.

10 year Amoritized Maintenance Increase 3.50%
Year Total
Animal Kingdom
$7.87 1 $6.30 $14.17
$7.87 2 $6.52 $14.39
$7.87 3 $6.75 $14.62
$7.87 4 $6.98 $14.85
$7.87 5 $7.23 $15.10
$7.87 6 $7.48 $15.35
$7.87 7 $7.74 $15.61
$7.87 8 $8.02 $15.88
$7.87 9 $8.30 $16.16
$7.87 10 $8.59 $16.46
Total $78.69 73.90777691 152.5977769
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Aulani
$9.45 1 $6.39 $15.84
$9.45 2 $6.61 $16.06
$9.45 3 $6.85 $16.29
$9.45 4 $7.08 $16.53
$9.45 5 $7.33 $16.78
$9.45 6 $7.59 $17.04
$9.45 7 $7.85 $17.30
$9.45 8 $8.13 $17.58
$9.45 9 $8.41 $17.86
$9.45 10 $8.71 $18.16
Total $94.49 74.9636023 169.4536023
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Bay Lake Tower
$10.69 1 $5.05 $15.74
$10.69 2 $5.23 $15.91
$10.69 3 $5.41 $16.10
$10.69 4 $5.60 $16.29
$10.69 5 $5.79 $16.48
$10.69 6 $6.00 $16.69
$10.69 7 $6.21 $16.90
$10.69 8 $6.43 $17.11
$10.69 9 $6.65 $17.34
$10.69 10 $6.88 $17.57
Total $106.88 59.24353546 166.1235355
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Beach Club
$10.30 1 $5.98 $16.28
$10.30 2 $6.19 $16.49
$10.30 3 $6.41 $16.71
$10.30 4 $6.63 $16.93
$10.30 5 $6.86 $17.16
$10.30 6 $7.10 $17.40
$10.30 7 $7.35 $17.65
$10.30 8 $7.61 $17.91
$10.30 9 $7.87 $18.17
$10.30 10 $8.15 $18.45
Total $103.00 70.1537311 173.1537311
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk
$11.29 1 $6.07 $17.36
$11.29 2 $6.28 $17.57
$11.29 3 $6.50 $17.79
$11.29 4 $6.73 $18.02
$11.29 5 $6.97 $18.25
$11.29 6 $7.21 $18.50
$11.29 7 $7.46 $18.75
$11.29 8 $7.72 $19.01
$11.29 9 $7.99 $19.28
$11.29 10 $8.27 $19.56
Total $112.88 71.20955648 184.0895565
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Grand California
$12.88 1 $5.15 $18.03
$12.88 2 $5.33 $18.21
$12.88 3 $5.52 $18.39
$12.88 4 $5.71 $18.59
$12.88 5 $5.91 $18.79
$12.88 6 $6.12 $18.99
$12.88 7 $6.33 $19.21
$12.88 8 $6.55 $19.43
$12.88 9 $6.78 $19.66
$12.88 10 $7.02 $19.89
Total $128.76 60.41667478 189.1766748
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Grand Floridian
$13.51 1 $5.52 $19.03
$13.51 2 $5.71 $19.23
$13.51 3 $5.91 $19.43
$13.51 4 $6.12 $19.63
$13.51 5 $6.33 $19.85
$13.51 6 $6.56 $20.07
$13.51 7 $6.79 $20.30
$13.51 8 $7.02 $20.54
$13.51 9 $7.27 $20.78
$13.51 10 $7.52 $21.04
Total $135.13 64.75729025 199.8872902
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Hilton Head
$6.36 1 $6.52 $12.88
$6.36 2 $6.75 $13.11
$6.36 3 $6.98 $13.34
$6.36 4 $7.23 $13.59
$6.36 5 $7.48 $13.84
$6.36 6 $7.74 $14.10
$6.36 7 $8.01 $14.37
$6.36 8 $8.30 $14.65
$6.36 9 $8.59 $14.94
$6.36 10 $8.89 $15.25
Total $63.59 76.48868341 140.0786834
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Old Key West
$7.11 1 $5.84 $12.95
$7.11 2 $6.04 $13.15
$7.11 3 $6.26 $13.36
$7.11 4 $6.47 $13.58
$7.11 5 $6.70 $13.81
$7.11 6 $6.94 $14.04
$7.11 7 $7.18 $14.29
$7.11 8 $7.43 $14.54
$7.11 9 $7.69 $14.80
$7.11 10 $7.96 $15.07
Total $71.08 68.51133606 139.5913361
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Saratoga Springs
$8.11 1 $5.18 $13.29
$8.11 2 $5.36 $13.47
$8.11 3 $5.55 $13.65
$8.11 4 $5.74 $13.85
$8.11 5 $5.94 $14.05
$8.11 6 $6.15 $14.26
$8.11 7 $6.37 $14.47
$8.11 8 $6.59 $14.70
$8.11 9 $6.82 $14.93
$8.11 10 $7.06 $15.16
Total $81.05 60.76861657 141.8186166
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Vero Beach
$5.24 1 $8.06 $13.30
$5.24 2 $8.34 $13.58
$5.24 3 $8.63 $13.88
$5.24 4 $8.94 $14.18
$5.24 5 $9.25 $14.49
$5.24 6 $9.57 $14.81
$5.24 7 $9.91 $15.15
$5.24 8 $10.25 $15.50
$5.24 9 $10.61 $15.86
$5.24 10 $10.98 $16.23
Total $52.42 94.55502887 146.9750289
__________________________ ________________________________________________________________
Wilderness Lodge
$7.59 1 $6.03 $13.62
$7.59 2 $6.24 $13.84
$7.59 3 $6.46 $14.05
$7.59 4 $6.69 $14.28
$7.59 5 $6.92 $14.51
$7.59 6 $7.16 $14.76
$7.59 7 $7.41 $15.01
$7.59 8 $7.67 $15.27
$7.59 9 $7.94 $15.53
$7.59 10 $8.22 $15.81
Total $75.94 70.74030076 146.6803008