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Vaccine passport for Hawaii for mid-April??

"Roger"

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I will note here - anyone heard of HIPPA?

A vaccine passport would violate HIPPA law. How long would it take to change the law?
If you check the net you will find many refutations of this claim.
 

melissy123

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TO MODERATOR; It seems like this thread was merged with another thread and can't be accessed directly when trying to find it on the Hawaii Timesharing Forum which is what it was started on. I don't know anything about the merging of threads but when posts are made to this thread it appears that they disappear and I can't access them unless I go to ALERTS. Please look into this a fix it.
I was the OP. My intent was to provide information (and hope) for those about to travel to Hawaii. Not to turn into yet another political discussion. No wonder the moderator moved it.
 

"Roger"

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As a side note: Michael Smirconish hosts a popular radio show on the Sirius network. He prides himself on being "in the middle" politically, but I would describe his followers as generally (although not totally by any means) more liberal.

In any case, he has daily polls. The current one is "Should private businesses be permitted to require "vaccine passports" from customers to prove vaccination?" As of a few minutes ago, with 33,000 respondents (an usually high number), 86.59% said yes.

I am not suggesting that polls should determine policy, but find the results interesting.
 

Tamaradarann

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I will note here - anyone heard of HIPPA?

A vaccine passport would violate HIPPA law. How long would it take to change the law?

Well I have alot of problems with certain aspects of the HiPPA law also. While can I understand keeping certain medical information private I don't think that vaccinations is one of them. When I call up certain medical organizations to pay for my husband's or son's medical expenses and I ask what bills were already paid already and what bills they owe due to HIPPA I feel like saying so then I guess you don't to get paid and hang up.
 

VegasBella

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It's weird that a lot of people are acting like vaccine passports are a new concept and not a regular thing we already use in lots of contexts. Vaccines are required in so many contexts - school, daycare, certain jobs or volunteer work, college, etc.

I had to get MMR to go to college because I couldn't prove I had measles as a kid. Were my rights violated?
I had to get some vaccines before a travel abroad Summer program. Was I duped into giving away too much privacy?
I had to get a Tetanus vaccine to volunteer to help out after Hurricane Katrina. Were they stomping on my freedom?
 

JIMinNC

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Which leads me to the point - why have a vaccine passport? In 3 to 6 months, we will know either way. Either the vaccine stops transmission to a large extent, or it doesn't. If it does, then there is no need for a vaccine passport, as the disease will drop to a very low level. It won't matter then if you have a vaccine or not, from a epidemiology aspect. If it doesn't stop transmission, what difference will it make, whether or not you have the vaccine? You could be a carrier, with or without a vaccine. Either way, a vaccine passport will be unneeded.

Your comments above make sense, and hopefully the idea of a vaccine passport will simply be a transitional solution to some normalcy until we (hopefully) get to a point when Covid is not a serious threat any more. Think of the current pre-testing requirements as the first phase of that "transition" (allowing people to travel if testing negative) and the vaccine documentation as phase two (adding vaccination as a valid travel authorization). Phase three would be enough vaccination that the real threat is no longer acute, so vaccine documentation becomes superfluous, as you note, and we could go back to the way things were prior to March 2020.

I think the key question is what is the ceiling for vaccination? Can we get to 85% to 90% vaccinated, a level that would likely make "vaccine passports" irrelevant? Or, due to vaccine hesitancy and the politicization of vaccines, will we struggle to get above 70% coverage? If 30% remain unwilling to get the vaccine, we may have to prove vaccination for a long time. If we can convince the hesitant part of the population to get vaccinated, and can get the U.S. to 85% to 90%, then I think domestic U.S. vaccine passports will indeed become irrelevant as you suggest. Given the time it will take globally to reach very high vaccination rates and the difficulty of vaccinating the poorer, developing nations, I suspect some sort of vaccination proof may be required for international travel for a long time.
 

Tamaradarann

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Your comments above make sense, and hopefully the idea of a vaccine passport will simply be a transitional solution to some normalcy until we (hopefully) get to a point when Covid is not a serious threat any more. Think of the current pre-testing requirements as the first phase of that "transition" (allowing people to travel if testing negative) and the vaccine documentation as phase two (adding vaccination as a valid travel authorization). Phase three would be enough vaccination that the real threat is no longer acute, so vaccine documentation becomes superfluous, as you note, and we could go back to the way things were prior to March 2020.

I think the key question is what is the ceiling for vaccination? Can we get to 85% to 90% vaccinated, a level that would likely make "vaccine passports" irrelevant? Or, due to vaccine hesitancy and the politicization of vaccines, will we struggle to get above 70% coverage? If 30% remain unwilling to get the vaccine, we may have to prove vaccination for a long time. If we can convince the hesitant part of the population to get vaccinated, and can get the U.S. to 85% to 90%, then I think domestic U.S. vaccine passports will indeed become irrelevant as you suggest. Given the time it will take globally to reach very high vaccination rates and the difficulty of vaccinating the poorer, developing nations, I suspect some sort of vaccination proof may be required for international travel for a long time.

I agree with your reasoning here. I believe that the 30% unwilling to get vaccinated is probably a good estimate, it maybe more than that. Only a little over 50% of the people get the annual Flu vaccine, while the coranavirus seems to be worst than the Flu I don't think anywhere near 85% of the people will get vaccinated. Therefore, proof of vaccination will be necessary.
 

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I don't travel with an animal but don't you need to have medical proof that YOU REQURIED A SERVICE ANIMIAL and that the animal IS IN FACT A SERVICE ANIMAL to get on a plane and check into a hotel or timeshare?
No proof is required. There is a cottage industry for fake "service animal" vests. Pet owners regularly exploit this loophole in the law to bring their untrained dog into timeshares, hotels, grocery stores, really anywhere with a "no pet" policy and only "service animals" are allowed.

There is nothing like a "service animal passport" program, because that would violate a disabled person's rights.
 
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CO skier

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Or, due to vaccine hesitancy and the politicization of vaccines, will we struggle to get above 70% coverage?
More than 70% of Americans 65 and older have already received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine, which I think provides a lot of hope as younger populations become eligible for the Covid-19 vaccine.

The difficulty now is not vaccine hesitancy, it is people who want the vaccine being able to schedule a vaccine appointment. That may lead to a larger problem of keeping people patient and interested in getting that Covid-19 vaccine, which may take a few months.
 

Tamaradarann

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No proof is required. There is a cottage industry for fake "service animal" vests. Pet owners regularly exploit this loophole in the law to bring their untrained dog into timeshares, hotels, grocery stores, really anywhere with a "no pet" policy and only "service animals" are allowed.

There is nothing like a "service animal passport" program, because that would violate a disabled person's rights.

I know that there isn't a service animal passport program; there doesn't need to be one since there are only a small number of people taht bring their pets on vacations. But are you saying that all a pet owner needs to do is to buy one of the "service animal" vests to get on a plane, or check into a hotel or timeshare with their animal? No proof is required for the person or animal?
 

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I guess your travel will be very limited. You have to show your papers when you travel in the country or outside the country. You need a US passport to go outside the country and return. You must show your picture ID to get on a plane. You need to show your
ID to check into a hotel or timeshare.

As par as the vaccine passport, I would much rather show my vaccine passport than to have to get tested for the coronavirus going and coming back or quarantine for 14 days.

Showing a DL or birth certificate is much different than showing my medical or in this case my shot papers

What if they wanted a passport to show if you were Jewish or Irish or your religion or income level or whatever?
Would people be ok with that?
I know that is a stretch for comparison but it’s not any less of an intrusion

The shot should be a personal decision not a forced mandate



If the shot does prevent the person who is vaccinated then at some point all who want it will have it and all who do not want it wont

When that happens wouldn’t it be those who are not vaccinated taking risks only with other non vaccinated people?

In which case both individuals would have been willing to take that risk

If people don’t see this as a gateway to other roads their out of their minds
I’m not a conspiracists or lean any direction but the picture as a whole the the entire World.
Not just your town or city but the World doing some bizarre things
 

"Roger"

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If the shot does prevent the person who is vaccinated then at some point all who want it will have it and all who do not want it wont

When that happens wouldn’t it be those who are not vaccinated taking risks only with other non vaccinated people?
No. The vaccines are not 100% effective. I flatly will not sit at another table with a non-vaccinated person, invite them into my home, etc.

Call me hyper-sensitive, but this is exactly the stance of all the people that I associate with and is in line with current recommendations by the experts.
 

bnoble

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is in line with current recommendations by the experts.
I'm pretty careful too---more than most peope I know---but currently the CDC says this about fully vaccinated people:

You can gather indoors with unvaccinated people of any age from one other household (for example, visiting with relatives who all live together) without masks or staying 6 feet apart, unless any of those people or anyone they live with has an increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.
 

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If Hawaii expects to see a vaccine "passport" they won't be seeing me as another tourist (with tourist dollars to spend). I would carry my vaccine card to prove I was vaccinated but that would be it.

Luckily, Gov DeSantis/Florida has already said there ain't no way in hell that vaccine passports will ever be issued or used in Florida.
 

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So long as it’s optional and doesn’t exclude anyone I don’t see the harm. Essentially, have the passport or take the test, your choice.

Third option. Tell them to go to hell and spend your vacation dollars elsewhere. There are tons of just as pretty or prettier places to visit in this world other than Hawaii.
 

Tamaradarann

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Showing a DL or birth certificate is much different than showing my medical or in this case my shot papers

What if they wanted a passport to show if you were Jewish or Irish or your religion or income level or whatever?
Would people be ok with that?
I know that is a stretch for comparison but it’s not any less of an intrusion

The shot should be a personal decision not a forced mandate



If the shot does prevent the person who is vaccinated then at some point all who want it will have it and all who do not want it wont

When that happens wouldn’t it be those who are not vaccinated taking risks only with other non vaccinated people?

In which case both individuals would have been willing to take that risk

If people don’t see this as a gateway to other roads their out of their minds
I’m not a conspiracists or lean any direction but the picture as a whole the the entire World.
Not just your town or city but the World doing some bizarre things

The passport has public health reasons to prevent someone from having to get coronavirus tests or quarantine and demonstrate that they were vaccinated is a way that prevents forgery concerns. If one doesn't want to go that route they have other options.

Your assertion about a passport to show one was Jewish, Irish, Religion etc. has no public health basis. Requiring that type of proof certainly smacks of discrimination and our country's history of those types of practices hopefully is in the past.
 

dougp26364

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I will note here - anyone heard of HIPPA?

A vaccine passport would violate HIPPA law. How long would it take to change the law?


Yes, I’ve heard of HIPPA, and apparently you’re not as familiar with the law as you believe. Voluntarily showing your vaccination card does not in anyway violate your rights under HIPPA. Neither does asking for proof of vaccination under these circumstances or signing up for any potential vaccine passport. Now, if you sign up for a vaccination e passport and the company you contract with leaks your information without your permission, then you’ll have a violation of HIPPA.

Remember, you still have the options of proof of a negative test, quarantine or don’t go. Right now the options are test or don’t go, so we’re not going. If they open it up to proof of vaccination, then we’ll consider going because we’ve both been vaccinated. Personally, I’m waiting until things settle down and when travel policies have been in place for more than a couple of weeks. Things are still changing to rapidly and frequently to be reliable IMHO.
 

dougp26364

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Third option. Tell them to go to hell and spend your vacation dollars elsewhere. There are tons of just as pretty or prettier places to visit in this world other than Hawaii.

And right now we have made the choice to not go to Hawaii. Testing won’t guarantee results before departure. If all I have to do is show verification of vaccination, we’ll reconsider.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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Yes, I’ve heard of HIPPA, and apparently you’re not as familiar with the law as you believe. Voluntarily showing your vaccination card does not in anyway violate your rights under HIPPA. Neither does asking for proof of vaccination under these circumstances or signing up for any potential vaccine passport. Now, if you sign up for a vaccination e passport and the company you contract with leaks your information without your permission, then you’ll have a violation of HIPPA.

Remember, you still have the options of proof of a negative test, quarantine or don’t go. Right now the options are test or don’t go, so we’re not going. If they open it up to proof of vaccination, then we’ll consider going because we’ve both been vaccinated. Personally, I’m waiting until things settle down and when travel policies have been in place for more than a couple of weeks. Things are still changing to rapidly and frequently to be reliable IMHO.

Here is the HIPPA website.


I don't think requiring a person to give up his/her privacy rights to a third party in order to use their services is permissible under HIPPA. It certainly is not for employment under HIPPA and ADA.
 

dougp26364

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Here is the HIPPA website.


I don't think requiring a person to give up his/her privacy rights to a third party in order to use their services is permissible under HIPPA. It certainly is not for employment under HIPPA and ADA.

I actually deal with HIPPA every day. If you give up your information voluntarily, it’s not a violation. So long as YOU sign the release, it’s not a violation. Now if a company that has your protected health information gives out that information without your consent, then you have a complaint. This is why you will always be required to sign a release of information agreement before your information is sent.

Voluntarily showing a vaccination record is not a violation. You giving this information for any vaccine passport voluntarily is not a violation. Someone Sharing this information without your consent is a violation
 
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controller1

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No proof is required. There is a cottage industry for fake "service animal" vests. Pet owners regularly exploit this loophole in the law to bring their untrained dog into timeshares, hotels, grocery stores, really anywhere with a "no pet" policy and only "service animals" are allowed.

There is nothing like a "service animal passport" program, because that would violate a disabled person's rights.
I know that there isn't a service animal passport program; there doesn't need to be one since there are only a small number of people taht bring their pets on vacations. But are you saying that all a pet owner needs to do is to buy one of the "service animal" vests to get on a plane, or check into a hotel or timeshare with their animal? No proof is required for the person or animal?

Before flying on a US-based airline with a service animal the passenger must submit this U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Form at least 48 hours prior to departure and the form must be signed.

 

Ralph Sir Edward

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I actually deal with HIPPA every day. If you give up your information voluntarily, it’s not a violation. So long as YOU sign the release, it’s not a violation. Now if a company that has your protected health information gives out that information without your consent, then you have a complaint. This is why you will always be required to sign a release of information agreement before your information is sent.

Voluntarily showing a vaccination record is not a violation. You giving this information for any vaccine passport voluntarily is not a violation. Someone Sharing this information without your consent is a violation

I spent 5 years programming HIPPA information (3 years doing the internal Medicare coding). every year I had to pass HIPPA law exams for my profession.

Is being denied a service for refusing to divulge private HIPPA information voluntary? For employment the answer is an explicit NO. (Both from HIPPA law and from Americans With DIabilities Act (ADA) provide hard protections).

Yet that is precisely what is being required for a "vaccine passport". It is to be used to determine whether or not you are allowed to get a good or service. Period. That is no more voluntary than say "we are only considering candidates which release their medical records". No other disease has had this requirement. Not even HIV at its height. Which is why I am so "up in arms". IMHO is isn't being suggested to stop COVID, but to be used as a "Trojan Horse" for something to evolve into a national ID.
 
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