Vaccination Passports/Safe Travels

[csodjd]

I got 3 different answers to the question about self reporting/validity of negative test results on the Safe Travels Portal. The reason I asked is that I was wondering if the same method could be used for vaccination validity and that would set up a system that I would like to see Hawaii go to for all arrivals including flight crew, military, constructors etc. Vaccinated you can come, not vaccinated and you can't. I say this not only for my vaccinated family going in the Fall, but also because we plan on staying there for quite a long time.

Where we live on Long Island there is so few people coming from other locations that I do not have a major concern about outsiders bring the virus to our home there. However, Hawaii is an International travel destination with as many as 30,000 arrivals a day. In the course of a year millions of people come to Hawaii who could be bringing the virus to Hawaii. Most people want to be able to go back to living like we did in 2019; living safely around people without masks and social distancing. I believe maximum vaccination is the way to accomplish that.

I suspect/hope that as the % of Hawaii residents that are vaccinated increases the concern about someone lying about their vaccination status, that has covid, coming into the state diminishes. If they can get to 75% or so vaccinated, even if that liar comes in, AND even if that liar has an active/contagious case of COVID when he/she does come in, the risk of that liar creating community spread is very low. When you combine the risk of the liar (esp. In light of federal and state criminal penalties), the risk of that liar being contagious, and the risk of him/her infecting another, you get to a very, very, low risk overall. That’s the essence of herd immunity.

Getting residents of Hawaii vaccinated is a/the key to the state being able to take some liberties with the travel rules Independent of their ability to verify vaccination status.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I suspect/hope that as the % of Hawaii residents that are vaccinated increases the concern about someone lying about their vaccination status, that has covid, coming into the state diminishes. If they can get to 75% or so vaccinated, even if that liar comes in, AND even if that liar has an active/contagious case of COVID when he/she does come in, the risk of that liar creating community spread is very low. When you combine the risk of the liar (esp. In light of federal and state criminal penalties), the risk of that liar being contagious, and the risk of him/her infecting another, you get to a very, very, low risk overall. That’s the essence of herd immunity.

Getting residents of Hawaii vaccinated is a/the key to the state being able to take some liberties with the travel rules Independent of their ability to verify vaccination status.

The emphasis on "a liar" certainly makes it sound like there is nothing to worry about. However, there is about 1/3 of the US that seems to feel that they will not get vaccinated which is about 100 million people so there is the possibility of there being many more than one liar coming to Hawaii from just the Continental US. Furthermore, there are 6 billion people in the rest of the world that are NOT vaccinated so the possiblity of having many more than one liar coming to Hawaii internationally is certainly possible and the incentive is greater since the vaccine is so scarce. While there are criminal penalties for the liars, identifying those criminals, and compiling evidence against those criminals would require checking the same sources that would be checked if a vaccination passport was established. So rather than clog up the already overloaded court system, lets just establish a vaccination passport system and stop wasting time!

 

[HGVC Lover]

So rather than clog up the already overloaded court system, lets just establish a vaccination passport system and stop wasting time!

Definitely agree......this would be a sensible solution but not much makes sense about the state of affairs on the US mainland anymore......

 

[Henry M.]

A relative of mine proudly sent me a photo of their vaccination card when they got home after the event. The first thing I noticed was that there was no name and address or any information other than the date and vaccine type filled in. The way vaccination records are being created/kept means that a statement from the person that they have been vaccinated is about as accurate as the piece of paper. You either believe the person or you don't. A piece of paper uploaded to some central site is not really more reliable proof than the statement of the person. It is too late to establish a reliable system of proof when 100 or 200 million vaccines have been given.

International proof may or may not be more reliable. It depends on the country of origin.

I suppose you could argue that a vaccine card, like the lock on an office desk, is only to keep honest people honest. Anyone that wants to get around the system easily can.

 

[zentraveler]

A relative of mine proudly sent me a photo of their vaccination card when they got home after the event. The first thing I noticed was that there was no name and address or any information other than the date and vaccine type filled in. The way vaccination records are being created/kept means that a statement from the person that they have been vaccinated is about as accurate as the piece of paper. You either believe the person or you don't. A piece of paper uploaded to some central site is not really more reliable proof than the statement of the person. It is too late to establish a reliable system of proof when 100 or 200 million vaccines have been given.

International proof may or may not be more reliable. It depends on the country of origin.

I suppose you could argue that a vaccine card, like the lock on an office desk, is only to keep honest people honest. Anyone that wants to get around the system easily can.

You can buy vaccine cards on the internet. I know we were in a rush to get these out, but creating a paper system instead of a national database for verifying and tracking this information was a huge mistake IMHO.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I believe at least some of the vaccine Passport programs have at least some basic checking to ensure the information is correct, such as verification from the provided that administered the shots.

That's one of the reasons the Hawaii program is currently only open to people that received their shots within the state of Hawaii.

 

[Tamaradarann]

You can buy vaccine cards on the internet. I know we were in a rush to get these out, but creating a paper system for verifying and tracking this information was a huge mistake INHO.

Well I know when we got vaccinated they entered all the information into a computer. I don't know if all vaccination sites do that but I Know my other vaccinations are all documented on computers.

 

[csodjd]

A relative of mine proudly sent me a photo of their vaccination card when they got home after the event. The first thing I noticed was that there was no name and address or any information other than the date and vaccine type filled in. The way vaccination records are being created/kept means that a statement from the person that they have been vaccinated is about as accurate as the piece of paper. You either believe the person or you don't. A piece of paper uploaded to some central site is not really more reliable proof than the statement of the person. It is too late to establish a reliable system of proof when 100 or 200 million vaccines have been given.

International proof may or may not be more reliable. It depends on the country of origin.

I suppose you could argue that a vaccine card, like the lock on an office desk, is only to keep honest people honest. Anyone that wants to get around the system easily can.

When the vaccines first hit the street and people, doctors and health care workers and others could get them, the providers were working their tails off trying to vaccinate the hordes of people signed up. The last thing they were thinking about is that they better be really careful and diligent in filling out those cards because they’d take on a massive importance some day. So you’re certainly correct. They are -some evidence- of vaccination, but hardly the reliability of, say, a driver’s license, and you can buy one of those through the internet. I can only imagine what the documentation looks like in countries around the world, especially countries that are not English speaking/writing.

I support using vaccination as a gateway to safely engaging in various activities. But I think we’re going to have to largely take people’s word for it, because that’s probably the most reliable thing that we’ll have, however unreliable that may be.

 

[csodjd]

Well I know when we got vaccinated they entered all the information into a computer. I don't know if all vaccination sites do that but I Know my other vaccinations are all documented on computers.

I don’t know, but I very much doubt that the massive drive-thru vaccination sites in parking lots around the country that were doing 1000’s of vaccines in a day were recording vaccination data into a computer, or that the information is highly reliable even if they were.

 

[dioxide45]

Well I know when we got vaccinated they entered all the information into a computer. I don't know if all vaccination sites do that but I Know my other vaccinations are all documented on computers.

True, but the company that collected that health information can't freely just hand it over to another entity. You may be able to share it with the other entity, but that company can't do it. So CVS who administered my shot can't tell an airline or some aggregate company that I had it.

 

[csodjd]

The emphasis on "a liar" certainly makes it sound like there is nothing to worry about. However, there is about 1/3 of the US that seems to feel that they will not get vaccinated which is about 100 million people so there is the possibility of there being many more than one liar coming to Hawaii from just the Continental US. Furthermore, there are 6 billion people in the rest of the world that are NOT vaccinated so the possiblity of having many more than one liar coming to Hawaii internationally is certainly possible and the incentive is greater since the vaccine is so scarce. While there are criminal penalties for the liars, identifying those criminals, and compiling evidence against those criminals would require checking the same sources that would be checked if a vaccination passport was established. So rather than clog up the already overloaded court system, lets just establish a vaccination passport system and stop wasting time!

And how do you propose that would work?

I tend to be pragmatic. It costs a LOT of money to take a vacation in Hawaii. For a family of just two, airfare is about $1500 give or take. Accommodations, food, etc., plenty more. So, by and large, the people coming over to Hawaii to vacation are not minimum wage workers or low socio-economic status.

With that starting place, we know that more than 50% of those in the US have now been vaccinated or are in the process. That’ll be 60% soon. It’ll continue to creep up. There will be a segment that chooses not to vaccinate. I wonder aloud how many of that group is in the socioeconomic status that travels to Hawaii for vacations, and that would be willing to commit a crime to lie about being vaccinated to do so.

I just don’t think it’s a big issue, especially as/if the residents of Hawaii themselves achieve 75% or higher vaccination rate.

Just like filing your taxes… sign a form under penalty of perjury, with stated criminal penalties for a false statement, that it you are fully vaccinated plus two weeks.

 

[krj9999]

I went to a mass vax site in Maryland, my vaccine record showed up accurately a in state managed system shortly after. Staff had tablets and QR code scanners and they verified info.

My DW got her shots at Walgreens, and her data isn't entirely accurate (dates are a day off in places). Plus she didn't get a CDC card, but a Walgreens paper form instead.

I don’t know, but I very much doubt that the massive drive-thru vaccination sites in parking lots around the country that were doing 1000’s of vaccines in a day were recording vaccination data into a computer, or that the information is highly reliable even if they were.

 

[amy241]

And what about others? I am a Moderna Phase 3 participant in their vaccine trials. After I was unblinded, I received a vaccine card with all of the information on it - dates and lot numbers, my name, the unique number assigned to me in the trial, etc. But the card I received is not a CDC card, it’s a Moderna card! It is blue and white, has their name on it. I am feeling like no one will recognize it despite the fact that my vaccines came directly from Moderna!

 

[ccwu]

The NY vaccinated people can download state excelsior pass after 14 days of ones 2nd shot. The information in the state matches the your answer to questionnaires then they issue you a COVID vaccination pass.

Excelsior Pass Plus

covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pathways]

I don’t know, but I very much doubt that the massive drive-thru vaccination sites in parking lots around the country that were doing 1000’s of vaccines in a day were recording vaccination data into a computer, or that the information is highly reliable even if they were.

Of course I can't speak to 100% of the drive through's here in Indiana, but the ones I was around all required your DL or other Gov't id. By matching all that state info, everyone who got a shot was entered within 48 hrs into the State Dep of Health database and is accessible by computer

 

[SmithOp]

I don’t know, but I very much doubt that the massive drive-thru vaccination sites in parking lots around the country that were doing 1000’s of vaccines in a day were recording vaccination data into a computer, or that the information is highly reliable even if they were.

I got mine at the Disneyland super site, the data was entered in to a laptop at the site before getting the jabs.

 

[csodjd]

I got mine at the Disneyland super site, the data was entered in to a laptop at the site before getting the jabs.

The operative point there is “before.” That’s not reliable, or at least not as reliable as after. My wife had an appointment. We went to the site. We got there, it was too difficult for her to wait (physical/health issues) so we left and she ended up being vaccinated at a UCLA doctor’s office. They continued to notify her that she had received her first shot from them and she needed to schedule her second.

So while the stories above about getting vaccinated and having it recorded don’t address the concern/issue, because those WERE valid. The issue is, can those computer data systems be fully trusted to NOT have data for people that were NOT vaccinated? Also, can we be sure that someone is NOT vaccinated if they aren’t in the system?

We’ve vaccinated about 150,000,000 people in a few months. Does anyone here think the GOVERNMENT has accurately managed that data? If they have, it would reflect a level of government competence perhaps never before seen!

 

[clifffaith]

I never looked at my paper card, just folded it up and stuck it in my pocket. Last week on the local morning news, there was a segment about a woman who discovered her name wasn't correct on her card. The filler outer had written something like "Cathy" when the woman's name was "Carrie". I believe she was preparing for a trip somewhere that was definitely going to be checking that she'd been vaccinated, and this was likely to be an issue for her according to the newscaster who had researched the issue for his news segment. The rest of the story went on to tell folks how to get this rectified (which I didn't listen to).

 

[controller1]

I just downloaded my vaccination records (all, not just Covid) from the Louisiana Dept of Health. It shoes my Covid vaccinations with the correct date but the Lot Numbers are different than what is on my CDC Covid Vaccination Card I received from the vaccination site. There doesn't appear to be a way to contact LDH via email and I'm not waiting on the phone an extended period of time so I don't know why there is a difference.

 

[Henry M.]

We’ve vaccinated about 150,000,000 people in a few months. Does anyone here think the GOVERNMENT has accurately managed that data?

Actually, 50+ governments, as each US state has its own way of managing the information. Sometimes even within a state, things are managed in different ways. At this point, signing your name attesting whether you have received a shot is about as accurate as trying to rely on government records, especially if you assume most people are honest and will try to do what is necessary to be safe. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, right?

 

[Passepartout]

I REALLY hope we don't have to go through this whole rigmarole again in a few months for a booster!

 

[krj9999]

Bit of an update on mainland rollout. No guarantees on when or how things will proceed:

Ige hopes to have the trans-Pacific option running sometime this summer and it could be a methodical rollout.

“It may be one state at a time or vendor at a time for awhile,” Murdock said. “So you might see us bring on California or CVS or Walgreens or Walmart, something like that. It might be kind of hit and miss for awhile until the country gets everything aligned.”

With inter-island vaccine passport set up, state now turns attention to trans-Pacific travel

Setting up the passport for mainland residents is expected to be a logistical nightmare.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[csodjd]

Bit of an update on mainland rollout. No guarantees on when or how things will proceed:

Ige hopes to have the trans-Pacific option running sometime this summer and it could be a methodical rollout.

“It may be one state at a time or vendor at a time for awhile,” Murdock said. “So you might see us bring on California or CVS or Walgreens or Walmart, something like that. It might be kind of hit and miss for awhile until the country gets everything aligned.”

With inter-island vaccine passport set up, state now turns attention to trans-Pacific travel

Setting up the passport for mainland residents is expected to be a logistical nightmare.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

I’m in Oahu right now, I think it’s our forth trip over in the past 5 or so months. It is notable that FAR fewer people are wearing masks outside than in any previous Trip over. I’d say 50%, maybe less. Indoors people are pretty good, almost full mask use. Outside, very different.

Maui reports that after 14,000 “secondary” tests given on arrival, they have found two positive cases. Hard to imagine that the testing is worth the effort, especially with almost 50% vaccinated.