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Use Year shift

steve_solo

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My main use year (for >600K pts) has been april 1 to april 1 for 20 years. I picked up some small resales about 3 years ago, 1 is an EOY, the other Jan-Jan. Both smaller contracts.
This weekend after I booked the last of my Jan-Jan points for 2019, I noticed I have only $100K points in 2020, then I am back to my >600K points plus the resales in 2021.
Is it common for Wyndham to just move points out by 9 months with no notice when they are trying to line up use years?
To me , they are simply stealing 9 months of use.
Of course the MF's are still due for those 9 months.
Recourse?
 

Sandi Bo

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My main use year (for >600K pts) has been april 1 to april 1 for 20 years. I picked up some small resales about 3 years ago, 1 is an EOY, the other Jan-Jan. Both smaller contracts.
This weekend after I booked the last of my Jan-Jan points for 2019, I noticed I have only $100K points in 2020, then I am back to my >600K points plus the resales in 2021.
Is it common for Wyndham to just move points out by 9 months with no notice when they are trying to line up use years?
To me , they are simply stealing 9 months of use.
Of course the MF's are still due for those 9 months.
Recourse?
Yes it is common for Wyndham to move points without notice. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. I've lost track of how many points I've lost along the way

I take it your original contracts (>600K) are developer?

Here is a thread on this topic. Including some comments from a discussion on this topic that I had with someone at the owners meeting (so I'm not repeating myself and maybe changing my story :):
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-does-use-year-alignment-work.297365/#post-2355039

However yours is a new twist. I think the EOY contract has to be Jan-Dec, thus they are forcing all of your contracts to that use year. The rule to align a resale contract with your established use year can't be used. And instead they moved your good stuff to align with the EOY contract.

Maybe you'll have some luck talking to owner care, you may convince them to prorate the developer points they realigned. But I do think owner care is who you need at this point. Does anyone know if this number is any good any more? I have noted this is a priority line, available Mon-Fri 8am-5pm: 866-313-9062.

It such an interesting conversation. Wyndham sees no wrong. "We are extending the use of your points (we didn't take any away)" :rolleyes: My analogy was, how would you like it if today was payday and I said, sure I owe you this money, but I'm going to pay you in 9 months. No big deal. Or I just paid the rent and in 9 months you get the key.

OK, don't get me started. Oops, too late.

Good luck.
 

Railman83

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My main use year (for >600K pts) has been april 1 to april 1 for 20 years. I picked up some small resales about 3 years ago, 1 is an EOY, the other Jan-Jan. Both smaller contracts.
This weekend after I booked the last of my Jan-Jan points for 2019, I noticed I have only $100K points in 2020, then I am back to my >600K points plus the resales in 2021.
Is it common for Wyndham to just move points out by 9 months with no notice when they are trying to line up use years?
To me , they are simply stealing 9 months of use.
Of course the MF's are still due for those 9 months.
Recourse?
just happened to me they moved my July and Sept contracts forward to Jan. About 300 from July and 250 from Sept. It pro rates out to a loss of 220 yearly or about $1150 cost to me.

I’m actually good with moving, as multiple use years created problems but looks like they may have screwed up some ARP
 

Grammarhero

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Ouch. I’m thinking about depositing my points before adding more resale contracts.
 

CO skier

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To me , they are simply stealing 9 months of use.
It such an interesting conversation. Wyndham sees no wrong. "We are extending the use of your points (we didn't take any away)"
This is true. The OP is still receiving the full 600k points. It is just with the use year alignment, every year going forward the points will be awarded 9 months later and the OP will have 9 months beyond the "old" April use year to use them. Wyndham did not steal any points.

The key is when the 600k contract(s) are eventually transferred to a new owner. If the full 600k of the new January Use Year are used before a transfer end of March in any year, the OP broke even.

Rather than re-type my advice for multi-Use Year owners to be proactive regarding Use Year Alignments, I will just link it.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/wyndham-alignment-of-use-years.253879/#post-1988494

 

dgalati

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Yes it is common for Wyndham to move points without notice. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. I've lost track of how many points I've lost along the way

I take it your original contracts (>600K) are developer?

Here is a thread on this topic. Including some comments from a discussion on this topic that I had with someone at the owners meeting (so I'm not repeating myself and maybe changing my story :):
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-does-use-year-alignment-work.297365/#post-2355039

However yours is a new twist. I think the EOY contract has to be Jan-Dec, thus they are forcing all of your contracts to that use year. The rule to align a resale contract with your established use year can't be used. And instead they moved your good stuff to align with the EOY contract.

Maybe you'll have some luck talking to owner care, you may convince them to prorate the developer points they realigned. But I do think owner care is who you need at this point. Does anyone know if this number is any good any more? I have noted this is a priority line, available Mon-Fri 8am-5pm: 866-313-9062.

It such an interesting conversation. Wyndham sees no wrong. "We are extending the use of your points (we didn't take any away)" :rolleyes: My analogy was, how would you like it if today was payday and I said, sure I owe you this money, but I'm going to pay you in 9 months. No big deal. Or I just paid the rent and in 9 months you get the key.

OK, don't get me started. Oops, too late.

Good luck.
LOL very touchy subject with me. IMHO OP was robbed of points during this use year alignment. OP is also correct to say he will be paying maintenace fees on points that were pushed into 2020 use year.
 

dgalati

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Ouch. I’m thinking about depositing my points before adding more resale contracts.
FYI, Depositing points into RCI will result in a 0 balance for the next use year.
 

dgalati

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just happened to me they moved my July and Sept contracts forward to Jan. About 300 from July and 250 from Sept. It pro rates out to a loss of 220 yearly or about $1150 cost to me.

I’m actually good with moving, as multiple use years created problems but looks like they may have screwed up some ARP
Not many feel good about having $1150 taken from them?
 

wjappraise

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Years ago when Wyndham realigned our use year, they used a formula to compensate the loss of use. It’s pretty simple math.

Not sure why the stopped this ethical practice.

And some simple analogies show compensation is due:
If I lease a car for three years from July 1,2019 to June 30, 2022, I’m expected to pay 36 installments of $300 and be allowed to drive the vehicle 36,000 miles. If the lease company unilaterally realigns my lease use year so my term runs from January 2020 to December 2022, and says I still can only drive it 36,000 miles but they want 42 installment payments now of $300 - that’s unfair. I’d still have the vehicle and still be able to drive it 36,000 miles - but I would pay $1800 more and have to scale back my use of the vehicle to fit the terms.

My point is this - no one would agree to that. And no state regulatory agency would allow a leasing company to do this. This seems like a clear cut state agency complaint that needs to be filed. Wyndham’s history shows they know the right thing to do.

Wes.
 

dgalati

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Years ago when Wyndham realigned our use year, they used a formula to compensate the loss of use. It’s pretty simple math.

Not sure why the stopped this ethical practice.

And some simple analogies show compensation is due:
If I lease a car for three years from July 1,2019 to June 30, 2022, I’m expected to pay 36 installments of $300 and be allowed to drive the vehicle 36,000 miles. If the lease company unilaterally realigns my lease use year so my term runs from January 2020 to December 2022, and says I still can only drive it 36,000 miles but they want 42 installment payments now of $300 - that’s unfair. I’d still have the vehicle and still be able to drive it 36,000 miles - but I would pay $1800 more and have to scale back my use of the vehicle to fit the terms.

My point is this - no one would agree to that. And no state regulatory agency would allow a leasing company to do this. This seems like a clear cut state agency complaint that needs to be filed. Wyndham’s history shows they know the right thing to do.

Wes.
Wes I have argued with Wyndham about this unfair practice over the last 2 years. It is about as fair and unjust as Wyndham wanting to charge $12/1000 on a account thats goes into the negative when selling a deed after all points have been used for the current use year. Please make note a account will not go negative after using all use year points if giving the deed back with Ovations.
 

dgalati

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Years ago when Wyndham realigned our use year, they used a formula to compensate the loss of use. It’s pretty simple math.

Not sure why the stopped this ethical practice.

And some simple analogies show compensation is due:
If I lease a car for three years from July 1,2019 to June 30, 2022, I’m expected to pay 36 installments of $300 and be allowed to drive the vehicle 36,000 miles. If the lease company unilaterally realigns my lease use year so my term runs from January 2020 to December 2022, and says I still can only drive it 36,000 miles but they want 42 installment payments now of $300 - that’s unfair. I’d still have the vehicle and still be able to drive it 36,000 miles - but I would pay $1800 more and have to scale back my use of the vehicle to fit the terms.

My point is this - no one would agree to that. And no state regulatory agency would allow a leasing company to do this. This seems like a clear cut state agency complaint that needs to be filed. Wyndham’s history shows they know the right thing to do.

Deleted duplicate post
 

capital city

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I cant really complain as my use year is July 1 so when I add a contract Wyndham pulls back the use year from January to the previous July but doesnt charge me anything.
 

dgalati

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I cant really complain as my use year is July 1 so when I add a contract Wyndham pulls back the use year from January to the previous July but doesnt charge me anything.
Not yet. Wait until it all is pushed to Jan 1st use year. Then it may ruffle some feathers.
 

steve_solo

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Thanks for the comments everyone.
If Wyndham will do some sort of prorating, either money or points, I will be fine.
Now I just need to find a couple of hours to spend trying to discuss with Owner Care.
Uggh
 

Sandi Bo

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Not yet. Wait until it all is pushed to Jan 1st use year. Then it may ruffle some feathers.
That is where people need to be very careful - especially when purchasing resale.

If all your contracts are in alignment, I don't think there are any concerns of being aligned. But if you purchase any additional contracts, be aware of how you will be affected. Wyndham does not
do great at aligning at the time of transfer (they are not known for having solid processes in place or being consistent). However, they do come back around (at any time) and align - moving contracts forward, and as a rule - not prorating for what most of us feel is lost use.

Based on what's happened to me and my conversation with Owner Services at the Owners meeting in Austin, this is my understanding. (And to note, she did agree to look at my original developer points that were skipped during the 2014/2015 alignment when prorating was offered. I'll let you know how that goes).

During the 2014/2015 Wyndham 'took responsibility' for the mess of multiple use years that existed (my words, not hers). Because they wanted everything aligned, they offered the one-time prorates for developer and resale contracts (kind of owning the problem they wanted to clean up). But moving forward, developer purchases should have same use year as the rest of your (already aligned) account. Resale points are subject to being adjusted and will not be prorated.

For example, say you have a July-June use year.

If you purchase developer points - it's Wyndham's responsibility to provide July-June use year points (according to the rep I spoke to). (If this doesn't happen, you have a valid beef).

If you purchase resale, it is recommended to purchase contracts with the same use year you currently have, otherwise you risk being realigned.

At the time of the great alignment (in 2014/2015) - the rule was you would be aligned to the latest quarter you owned. So if you had Apr-Mar and July-June, you would be aligned to July-June. I was told we could choose (thus if you requested Apr-Mar in this example you'd be aligned to Apr-Mar). However, there are some contracts that must be Jan-Dec - converted weeks to points and I suspect also EOY. Thus if you have any converted weeks or EOY then you have no option but to be Jan-Dec.

IMO, that is what happened to OP. He was probably okay with his original 600K. However adding resale contracts, post alignment, put him back into the 'need alignment' bucket, and with contracts that must be Jan-Dec. Assuming the 600K points are developer purchase, he might find a sympathetic person in Owner Care that will extend that one-time proration to him.
 

Sandi Bo

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This is true. The OP is still receiving the full 600k points. It is just with the use year alignment, every year going forward the points will be awarded 9 months later and the OP will have 9 months beyond the "old" April use year to use them. Wyndham did not steal any points.

The key is when the 600k contract(s) are eventually transferred to a new owner. If the full 600k of the new January Use Year are used before a transfer end of March in any year, the OP broke even.

Rather than re-type my advice for multi-Use Year owners to be proactive regarding Use Year Alignments, I will just link it.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/wyndham-alignment-of-use-years.253879/#post-1988494

I appreciate your comments. I don't think as owners, to 'stay even' we should have to be sure use all our points in the 1st 3 months before we sell. I'm almost over this. Sometimes I think I am over it, but it comes up again... and there I go...
 

dgalati

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I appreciate your comments. I don't think as owners, to 'stay even' we should have to be sure use all our points in the 1st 3 months before we sell. I'm almost over this. Sometimes I think I am over it, but it comes up again... and there I go...
It was a happy Monday until I read the post. LOL
 

steve_solo

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Owner care was helpful, but I am still hosed by 9 months on 600K points.
I complained that I was trying to book Ocean Boulevard in July 2020 when I discovered my points were moved.
So they granted me enough points to book Ocean Boulevard since I was way short.
The number of points granted was nowhere near the 3/4 of 600K which was moved.

Lesson learned about resale contract use years, although I should be set from now on regardless of what I buy.
 

dgalati

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Hosed is putting it lightly. I would say that Wyndham robbed you on a policy change that is very unjust and not fair. Someone needs to call the AG and report this unfair practice that benefits Wyndham only.
 

dgalati

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Owner care was helpful, but I am still hosed by 9 months on 600K points.
I complained that I was trying to book Ocean Boulevard in July 2020 when I discovered my points were moved.
So they granted me enough points to book Ocean Boulevard since I was way short.
The number of points granted was nowhere near the 3/4 of 600K which was moved.

Lesson learned about resale contract use years, although I should be set from now on regardless of what I buy.
I would say its like getting robbed without a gun. At least when you get robbed on the street you know it. Wyndham steals your points then wants you to pay maintenance fees on the points you are robbed of. Why would anyone feel this is OK?
 

CO skier

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I appreciate your comments. I don't think as owners, to 'stay even' we should have to be sure use all our points in the 1st 3 months before we sell.
I agree and was offering a recipe to make lemonade out of the lemons the OP was handed.

The other side of the coin is that if the OP were offered 450k "prorated" points and the contract eventually transfers to a new owner before March 30 in any January Use Year, the OP would have received 450k points that he did not pay maintenance fees on; transfers before June 30 = 300k maintenance fee free points; transfers before September 30 = 150k maintenance fee free points.

If owners want "prorated" points when contracts are aligned, then there would have to be a corresponding requirement that all transferred contracts must still contain the full Use Year's of points when transferred. It is easy to see how that would be a problem for January Use Year contracts that transfer in the fourth quarter of any January Use Year.
 
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dgalati

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I agree and was offering a recipe to make lemonade out of the lemons the OP was handed.

The other side of the coin is that if the OP were offered 450k "prorated" points and the contract eventually transfers to a new owner before March 30 in any January Use Year, the OP would have received 450k points that he did not pay maintenance fees on; transfers before June 30 = 300k maintenance fee free points; transfers before September 30 = 150k maintenance fee free points.
Souds like someone is drinking the Wyndham koolaid. The prorated points would be for the current use year alignment. It shouldn't matter if he uses them then sells the deed after all points for current use year. As a owner we have a right to use points in current use year. We also can sell after all points have been used for the current use year.
 
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CO skier

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The prorated points would be for the current use year alignment.
But if the OP uses the 600k points in the first quarter of the year the contract eventually transfers (within the "old" March 30 end of Use Year), the OP received 9 months of prorated points (April 1 to December 31 of the new January - December Use Year) that he did not pay maintenance fees on.

I know this takes some thinking, but give it a try.
 

wjappraise

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But if the OP uses the 600k points in the first quarter of the year the contract eventually transfers (within the "old" March 30 end of Use Year), the OP received 9 months of prorated points (April 1 to December 31 of the new January - December Use Year) that he did not pay maintenance fees on.

I know this takes some thinking, but give it a try.
What am you missing? Was the OP offered prorated points? If he was, that’s great. If he wasn’t - then this post is a distraction to the thread.

No need to take a shot at dgalati implying he doesn’t know how to think.
 
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