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Use Floating Weeks in STJ for Prime Weeks?

STJVilla

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I recently purchased a prime floating week at the Westin St. John and I am worried that I will not be able to actually get into the resort on the weeks that my children are on school vacation. This is a major concern.

I have heard that it is very difficult for other Starwood villa owners to book St. John, but can anyone tell me how possible it is for St. John floating week owners to actually get into their home resort during those high volume weeks?

I sincerely appreciate any feedback or information as I have a critical decsion to make and not much time to do so.
 

Loriannf

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Did you purchase BayView?

If so, these are new units and I'm not sure how hard it will be to get the week you want the first few years. I can tell you that when we bought in 1999 in the Hillside units, the first 3 or 4 years we didn't really have any problems getting a week within our season other than the one we had as our fixed week. As time has gone by and the project has pretty much sold out, we've found that we're limited to our deeded weeks.

I hope you bought the floating season you wish to go in. If you bought one of the "older" Hillside units, then they are fixed weeks, and you pretty much need to go your deeded week. Sometimes you can adjust to another week or so in your season, but you may have to waitlist.

I'd be happy to answer any of your specific questions regarding WSJ if you'd like to email me.

Lori
 

STJVilla

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Can You Count on Floating Weeks?

I did buy the floating season that i wish to go into, HOWEVER, my choice of weeks is very limited by my children's schoool schedule.

I bought a 3 bedroom platinum plus floating week in the new Bay Vista Phase. We picked the floating week as our children's school calendar changes from year to year. What we didn't anticipate (being new to TS) was that it might be difficult to use the floating weeks for the high demand weeks.

Needless to say, this floating week was very expensive. It's an expense we are willing to take on if we can use our unit every year. If we can't actually count on getting in on the weeks we are limted to, then we've lost a lot of money. It would be a disaster.

I still have the option to cancel and I will do so if it looks like it will be too difficult to get into STJ during the school vacation weeks in our float period.

Lori I did email you via this site and I appreciate your offer for more information.

I sincerely appreciate yours and anyone's input as I have a lot of money riding on my decision whether or not to cancel or take a leap of faith.
 

stevens397

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Floating weeks were a crap-shoot for the Christmas, New Year's, Presidents' Week and Easter weeks. They required determination and luck.

Now that some developers, including Starwood, have introduced "premium" Platinum weeks, it makes it even harder, if not impossible, to get those high-demand weeks.

They are charging a hefty premium for weeks 51, 52 and 7. If history is a guide, they WILL sell out those weeks. At that time, it will probably be impossible to get them.

Hard to give advice, but St. John is magnificent and if you were willing to go for the Platinum week, why not see if you can swing the dedicated one? You are right in your feeling that St. John is too expensive not to use!
 

Westin5Star

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Kid's School

You have a really tough decision. Did you buy the unit resale or direct from Starwood? If you bought from Starwood then I would definitely rescend your purchase and buy resale. You can get a fixed week platinum 3BR private pool villa for $45-55k on the resale market which is less than half of the prices that I recently saw from Starwood. It may be hard to find a fixed week 7 though.

It sounds like you are a very caring and loving parent that is definitely looking out for the best interest of your children. I don't mean to give unsolicited advice so I will ask in the form of a quesiton and then explain our situation and thoughts. Have you considered pulling your kids out of school for a week every year? It works out great because airfair is generally cheaper and the resorts are usually less crowded. We pull our kids out of school at least 7-10 weeks per year for travel purposes. At times, this does cause minor conflicts with sports and other activities but it allows the kids to adjust very quickly. I do realize that my goal maybe different than most partents in that I don't want for my kids to get a great education just to go out and get a job working for someone else. In my opinoin, the life lessons that they learn while traveling are much more realistic than the school environment and do a better job of setting them up for success in life. Life is all about balance and we as parents are charged with the huge responsibility of managing this for our children. I'm sure that you are doing a great job as a parent and that you know what is best for your children! Good luck in your very tough decision.
 

STJVilla

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Rescind and Purchase Resale???

I did buy the unit directly from Starwood while I was at the Westin St. John last week. I appreciate your candor and am now considering more seriously than ever, rescinding.

We love the Westin St. John, it's just that we are so limited by the children's school schedule and my husband is very inflexible about the kids missing even a day of school. I would be more inclined to pull my kids from school for the purpose of family travel, but my husband feels very strongly about not doing this and I have to respect his position. I agree that the life lessons afforded by family travel is invaluable. Some of my most formative experiences came from the travel I did growing up. That said, sadly, in my world, my children's vacations are only going to happen when the school is closed for that purpose.

This is why the floating week seemed so attractive. I did not consider the difficulty in using it as I wish. If it were possible we would have bought the fixed week from Starwood, but $85,00 was really the outter limit of what we were willing to spend. A resale does seem like a good option?

If I do rescind and buy a fixed week resale, what's the downside other than losing the hefty incentives they gave me along with the purchase?

I SO appreciate this forum and everyone's input. It's been very eye opening and educational.
 

Henry M.

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The downsides of buying resale would be:

- You lose the incentives which are probably worth a couple of thousand dollars, but not the difference in price between resale and developer prices.

- Your purchase doesn't count towards SVO Elite status but this doesn't really matter unless you get to 4 or 5* Elite. There are ways to requalify the resale unit later on if you do decide you want the Elite status.

- You can't convert your unit into Starpoints, used for hotel exchanges. Most people find this to be a bad value anyway, but it does add a little flexibility if you can't go to your resort and don't want to mess with renting or exchanging your unit. IMO, not worth the price difference.

- Bay View units (floating weeks) may not be available on the resale market for a while, since this is a brand new property. Hillside units are probably available but not necessarily for a particular week you want, since they are in relatively limited supply.

After reading all the SVO discussions here on TUG, my opinion is that even if you value Elite status and want to buy several Starwood units, you should begin by buying resale and then alternate with developer purchases to get your resale qualified back into the system. I'd say you should rescind this purchase immediately and take your time doing some research. I'm sure they would not refuse your money even if in the end you went back and wanted to buy from Starwood exactly what you rescinded (I don't think you will, though).
 

DavidnRobin

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I did buy the floating season that i wish to go into, HOWEVER, my choice of weeks is very limited by my children's schoool schedule.

I bought a 3 bedroom platinum plus floating week in the new Bay Vista Phase. We picked the floating week as our children's school calendar changes from year to year. What we didn't anticipate (being new to TS) was that it might be difficult to use the floating weeks for the high demand weeks.

Needless to say, this floating week was very expensive. It's an expense we are willing to take on if we can use our unit every year. If we can't actually count on getting in on the weeks we are limted to, then we've lost a lot of money. It would be a disaster.

I still have the option to cancel and I will do so if it looks like it will be too difficult to get into STJ during the school vacation weeks in our float period.

Lori I did email you via this site and I appreciate your offer for more information.

I sincerely appreciate yours and anyone's input as I have a lot of money riding on my decision whether or not to cancel or take a leap of faith.

First - congrats - you are the first Bay View (BV) WSJ buyer to find TUG (that I am aware of) - so that was a good move. There are not a lot of WSJ owners here (unfortunately). You will want to do as much research as quickly as possible while you are within your rescind period.

First - try and read as much as you can here on TUG using the advanced search feature - for both member's name and key words (e.g. WSJ).

The BV units differ from the Hillside (Vigin Grand - VG) units in that SVO (Starwood Vacation Ownership) are only selling up to half of the units in a given season as fixed and the rest as float. This will make it easier to reserve (as an owner) within the season that you bought. That is a major difference between BV and VG units. If you are willing to call exactly at the point when reservations are available for the week you want to go (12 months ahead at 9AM) - you shouldn't have an issue at all. The owners of fixed weeks will have their units reserved (of course), but you will be the next to reserve.

This was a good move on SVO's part - this really loosens up the ability for WSJ BV owners to move within their season - something that VG owners seriously lack. (we own week 24, 2Bd)

At this point - and likely for a while longer - there are no resales for BV WSJ -otherwise I would bring up the 4 Rs (Rescind, Research, Resale (& Requal)).

One thing you should know (another difference between VG and BV) is that BV is Voluntary (vs. Mandatory as the VG units are). This only makes a difference upon resale - the resale buyer will not be able to use the SVN system for exchanges. This doesn't impact the HS units that much as they are undervalued StarOption-wise (SO), but may impact the BV WSJ units since they have more SOs associated with them. Still not a good exchange value, since (IMO) any exchanges outside of WSJ is a downward exchange.

Good Luck.
 

DavidnRobin

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Just read the rescind post - normally, I would be the first state the "Rescind, Research, Resale" mantra - BUT - in this case you may not find a unit at WSJ that fits your needs. The StarPoints (SP) incentive is not worth it - so do not use this in your decision. SPs are nice to have, but certainly not worth it for the premium that you are paying. You are in a position of having the moving school break period to deal with - and fitting that within a resale opportunity at WSJ is very unlikely. HS units are fixed - so that doesn't help. You would need to find a resale in the BV section that matches your available weeks - and that will be unlikely anytime soon (if ever).

BTW - WE LOVE STJ and WSJ - we can't wait to go (~2 months)
 

STJVilla

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Bay Vista Floating Weeks Logic

DavenRobin-

Thanks for the information! I just went off and running with it.

Recognizing that the art of the sales manager is to sell, I nevertheless just called the sales manager as WSJ and asked him to explain the process of reserving floating weeks and the possibility of reserving a desirable week within the platinum plus season.

As you explained, the HS and BV units are different in that HS is all fixed, and BV is half fixed, half float.

I have to begin by saying that trying to make sense of the numbers has been a stressful trip back to the 6th grade in terms of the math. I'll do my best to share what the manager told me.

At BV there will be 24 3br. villas total (selling 8 each year in phases for 3 years).

Of those 24 units, 12 are fixed and 12 are float.

There will be 240 owners total. 120 of those owners own floating weeks.

The Platinum Plus season is 20 weeks long. 12 units x 20 weeks = 240

There are 3 weeks that would potentially work for us in a given year which = 36 slots.

If all 240 owners want one of the 36 slots than we have a 1 in about 6 chance of getting the week we want.

Christmas week is Christmas week, President's Week doesn't change either, but the one thing we have going for us is Spring Break. Because Spring Break is different from school to school we have more chances of getting in at that time. What I am not sure is if the increased odds are worth the risk.

When I got off the phone with the salesman I had peace of mind until I started to wrestle with the numbers. Now I am back to thinking that I should rescind.

I am so confused. Do the numbers and my analysis of the potential to book holidays weeks with a floating make sense?
 

DavidnRobin

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DavenRobin-

Thanks for the information! I just went off and running with it.

Recognizing that the art of the sales manager is to sell, I nevertheless just called the sales manager as WSJ and asked him to explain the process of reserving floating weeks and the possibility of reserving a desirable week within the platinum plus season.

As you explained, the HS and BV units are different in that HS is all fixed, and BV is half fixed, half float.

I have to begin by saying that trying to make sense of the numbers has been a stressful trip back to the 6th grade in terms of the math. I'll do my best to share what the manager told me.

At BV there will be 24 3br. villas total (selling 8 each year in phases for 3 years).

Of those 24 units, 12 are fixed and 12 are float.

There will be 240 owners total. 120 of those owners own floating weeks.

The Platinum Plus season is 20 weeks long. 12 units x 20 weeks = 240

There are 3 weeks that would potentially work for us in a given year which = 36 slots.

If all 240 owners want one of the 36 slots than we have a 1 in about 6 chance of getting the week we want.

Christmas week is Christmas week, President's Week doesn't change either, but the one thing we have going for us is Spring Break. Because Spring Break is different from school to school we have more chances of getting in at that time. What I am not sure is if the increased odds are worth the risk.

When I got off the phone with the salesman I had peace of mind until I started to wrestle with the numbers. Now I am back to thinking that I should rescind.

I am so confused. Do the numbers and my analysis of the potential to book holidays weeks with a floating make sense?

I don't think it is that confusing - I wouldn't get caught up in the math.

What weeks work for you in the Plat-plus season? It was hard to tell from you post - sounds as if you can go weeks 51-52 (Holiday), week 7 (Presidents), and another week (Spring Break) that could change year-to-year? - that is 4 possible weeks? Or are you considering just the Spring Break week that may change from year-to-year?

Regardless of the math - a few main issues remain - 1) Will you know 12 months ahead of time when you plan to go? 2) Are you willing to call 12 months in advance when the reservation lines open?

A third issue is one you may need to check on - when SVO-WSJ say they are selling 1/2 fixed and 1/2 float - do they mean for a particular week, or within the season? I asked this because if it is the former (a particular week will be constrained to have only 1/2 being fixed), then you should have no problem if you are willing to do #1 and #2 above.

I say this because it is likley that most BV float owners will not be aware of this, and therefore you have a clear advantage over them.

If not, and the owners that buy fixed weeks - buy them for the weeks you want to go - then... forget it, and rescind (or buy a fixed week for when you can go...).

I think it would have to be the first scenerio - otherwise it would not make sense - most fixed owners will just buy the premium weeks anyway.

A contact number I have for WSJ sales is: Greg Gray Dir. Sales/Marketing - 340-714-6086. If you are not getting a clear answer from your guy - call him.

Good luck. Let us know the outcome.
 

DavidnRobin

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2 threads worth reading re: WSJ

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38470

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32080

{your welcome...}

If I read these correctly - weeks 7, 16, 51, and 52 are considered 'ultra-prime' weeks - are these weeks what you are considering buying? If so (or if not) be careful here - meaning if you bought Plat-plus but not these 'ultra-prime' weeks - then these weeks (7, 16, 51, 52) are not available to you (I am assuming here) - if you don't want these weeks, then you should be fine with a float within Plat-plus (that do not include these weeks) based on my post above.

Turns out that you were not the first BV buyer here - sorry. :)
But congrats on finding TUG never-the-less
 

LisaH

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DavenRobin-

At BV there will be 24 3br. villas total (selling 8 each year in phases for 3 years).

Of those 24 units, 12 are fixed and 12 are float.

There will be 240 owners total. 120 of those owners own floating weeks.

I'm not sure that I agree with your math. If they sell 50 weeks/unit, wouldn't there be 50x24=1200 total owners, or 50x12=600 owners for floating weeks? Seems like your math is off by a factor of 5...
 

DavidnRobin

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I'm not sure that I agree with your math. If they sell 50 weeks/unit, wouldn't there be 50x24=1200 total owners, or 50x12=600 owners for floating weeks? Seems like your math is off by a factor of 5...


They were talking of only the Platinum-Plus season.
 

STJVilla

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I've Decided...

Your input has been incredible and invaluable.


I've decided to rescind. The enevelope is ready to go...

Even given the fact that I would be organized enough to call at the right time in advance, ultimately I don't want to spend $85 k to have to play call-in radio show frenzy year after year. I don't want a risky crap shoot or the aggrivation. There is way too much money involved to have to contend with that stress of having to be caller number one as much as I love St. John and the whole Westin set up.

I have done a bit of research and there are a few fixed week HS 3 bedrooms out there for far less than my floating 3 br at BV cost. I am going to pursue this. Week 7 will be hard to come by, but several things between weeks 12 and 17 seem to pop up and some of those weeks will actually correspond to my children's school breaks.

My next step is to really study the downside (if any) of buying a resale. I agree that for the forty-some-odd thousand dollar price tag difference in developer vs. resale doesn't make the incentive Starpoints much of an incerntive.

If I think I understand correctly I would be able to only use, sell or privately trade a fixed week and I would not be able to exchange for another Starwood property using options. Is this right?

If I can expect to sell on years in which the fixed week doesn't correspond to my children's school break this makes lots of sense. If the sale is going to be another crap shoot, well, then I may have to decide that my lack of flexibility makes owning a TS incompatitble with my current life.

You guys are great, many thanks!!
 

grgs

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If I think I understand correctly I would be able to only use, sell or privately trade a fixed week and I would not be able to exchange for another Starwood property using options. Is this right?

The older (Hillside) units are mandatory and would come with StarOptions allowing you to make internal Starwood exchanges. The new Bay Villas are not mandatory, and on resale will not come with StarOptions.

If I can expect to sell on years in which the fixed week doesn't correspond to my children's school break this makes lots of sense. If the sale is going to be another crap shoot, well, then I may have to decide that my lack of flexibility makes owning a TS incompatitble with my current life.

I assume you mean rent. I would guess that St. John would be relatively easy to rent out, but, of course, nothing is guaranteed. Given the amount of money you were going to spend, you might just want to rent instead of buy for a couple of years.

Best of luck!

Glorian
 

stevens397

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With a REASONABLE rental price, you will have no trouble renting the unit. Some of the numbers on TUG and Redweek may be pipe dreams but you should have no problem getting multiples of your maintenance fee.

If you can regularly use it (as opposed to ALWAYS) you'll do fine. I've rented twice now and had no problems at all.
 

Henry M.

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If I think I understand correctly I would be able to only use, sell or privately trade a fixed week and I would not be able to exchange for another Starwood property using options. Is this right?


If you buy resale at a Mandatory Starwood resort, such as WSJ Virgin Grand (Hillside), then you will be able to exchange with other Starwood properties. If you buy resale at a Voluntary resort (I've heard WSJ Bay View is such a resort, but I don't have direct information) then you can't exchange until you somehow bring the property back into the Starwood Vacation Network, usually by buying another developer week and requalifying the resale during the process (see the sticky at the top of this forum).

Mandatory means the resort has to be part of SVN and membership transfers with a sale. Voluntary means you can opt out of membership and it does not transfer with a resale.

You are correct in that you can use, rent, sell or trade privately. You can also belong to a company like Interval International that allows exchanges with other non-Starwood resorts.
 

johnmfaeth

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Why not summer?

Just wanted to raise the possibility of summer, namely July.

The average daily high is about 86 degrees and a steady 10 MPH breeze. It is the height of the dry season so you have less rain than the winter (which is technically the wet season). Much better than the muggy, dirty air in 95 degree temps of the NYC region for sure.

Restaurants are less crowded, no issue getting the reservations you want at good places like Zozo's, Stone Terrace, and The Balcony.

Best part is the units are MUCH less and you can get a fixed week so no reservation games.

John Faeth

PS. An unlike the western caribbean, the Virgin Islands hurricane season really is Late August to Early November with the biggest risk in October.
 
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DavidnRobin

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Your input has been incredible and invaluable.

I've decided to rescind. The enevelope is ready to go...

Even given the fact that I would be organized enough to call at the right time in advance, ultimately I don't want to spend $85 k to have to play call-in radio show frenzy year after year. I don't want a risky crap shoot or the aggrivation. There is way too much money involved to have to contend with that stress of having to be caller number one as much as I love St. John and the whole Westin set up.

I have done a bit of research and there are a few fixed week HS 3 bedrooms out there for far less than my floating 3 br at BV cost. I am going to pursue this. Week 7 will be hard to come by, but several things between weeks 12 and 17 seem to pop up and some of those weeks will actually correspond to my children's school breaks.

My next step is to really study the downside (if any) of buying a resale. I agree that for the forty-some-odd thousand dollar price tag difference in developer vs. resale doesn't make the incentive Starpoints much of an incerntive.

If I think I understand correctly I would be able to only use, sell or privately trade a fixed week and I would not be able to exchange for another Starwood property using options. Is this right?

If I can expect to sell on years in which the fixed week doesn't correspond to my children's school break this makes lots of sense. If the sale is going to be another crap shoot, well, then I may have to decide that my lack of flexibility makes owning a TS incompatitble with my current life.

You guys are great, many thanks!!
Sounds as if you made a wise decision based on your needs. We bought our 1st 3 SVO TSs resale (all Mandatory). I got very lucky with our WSJ villa (poor eBay ad). If you buy - and want to exchange, then my advice would be to find the best season for you and get as many SOs as possible (in case exchanging becomes an option) and of course for the least cost as possible. They come up on eBay from time-to-time.

Can I ask 2 things... what was the specific deal with SVO for? (cost, unit type, season, SP incentives, and MFs)

Also - did you get a CD copy of the WSJ BV Owners Manual? If so, can you make a copy or a PDF file? I would like to have a copy. If you can send as a PDF that would be great - I can send you may email address at work (they tend to be large...). If a CD can only be sent - I would cover the mailing/handling costs.

PS. there is a 3Bd on Redweek for ~$40K for week 16 (this is 'Patriots Week' - and considered an ultra-prime week by BV standards)
 
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