Upgrading from Vistana (Westin) Timeshare to Marriott Vacation Club

[CuriousFullerton]

We have a Westin Timeshare and just had a presentation on buying in enough Marriott Vacation Club points to have access to their larger network. If we buy Marriott Vacation Club points on the secondary market sufficient to bring us over the 4000 point minimum for participation in the Owner’s Trust, would we have all of the advantages of ownership as if we purchased from the source?

• If not, what don’t we get?
• If we do, what do we need to do to facilitate it?

 

[VacationForever]

What Westin do you own and when did you purchase it, bought resale or from developer? Depending on what you already own, we will be better able to advise.

 

[ljmiii]

If we buy Marriott Vacation Club points on the secondary market sufficient to bring us over the 4000 point minimum for participation in the Owner’s trust…

I’m confused by this as there is no minimum. Well…I suppose you could say that 250 points is the minimum since that’s one beneficial interest (BI). And the smallest Abound trust deed I’ve ever seen offered for sale is 500 points. And because the Initiation fee that MVC charges to ‘activate’ resale points is $3/pt with a minimum of $3,000 there is an effective minimum of 1000 points.

But that’s it. Certainly not 4000 points.

And yes, once you pay MVC their fee resale points are equivalent to those purchased directly from MVC.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

We have a Westin Timeshare and just had a presentation on buying in enough Marriott Vacation Club points to have access to their larger network. If we buy Marriott Vacation Club points on the secondary market sufficient to bring us over the 4000 point minimum for participation in the Owner’s Trust, would we have all of the advantages of ownership as if we purchased from the source?

• If not, what don’t we get?
• If we do, what do we need to do to facilitate it?

Not sure what you will finally decide to do, but whatever you decide do NOT buy your points from the developer as they are likely quoting you a price between $15 and $17 per point.

Buy your points on the resale market and you will cut your $60,000 investment to less than half of that.

And, as others have said you don't really need 4,000 points. Do a lot more investigation and homework prior to reaching deep into your pocket.

Welcome to TUG and Best of Luck!









.

 

[GrayFal]

We have a Westin Timeshare and just had a presentation on buying in enough Marriott Vacation Club points to have access to their larger network. If we buy Marriott Vacation Club points on the secondary market sufficient to bring us over the 4000 point minimum for participation in the Owner’s Trust, would we have all of the advantages of ownership as if we purchased from the source?

• If not, what don’t we get?
• If we do, what do we need to do to facilitate it?

If you are a current Westin owner (pre July 2022) you are already a part of Abound - you do not need to purchase anything else to access the full Marriott Vistana ownership

 

[CuriousFullerton]

What Westin do you own and when did you purchase it, bought resale or from developer? Depending on what you already own, we will be better able to advise.

We bought at the Westin Mission Hills from the Westin 23 years ago. With kids sports, etc. we've tremendously underutilized our ownership. Now, I'm planning o retiring next year, we are in our 70's and have never travelled much, would like to do so now. Thought this might be a good pathway. But we are concerned about falling into the same issues with availability, strict rules and ever increasing maintenance fees. Thoughts?

 

[VacationForever]

You do not need to buy anything else from MVC, since your week was bought directly from Westin, it comes with full access to Abound, the system which is used to book at other MVC properties.

 

[LeslieDet]

We bought at the Westin Mission Hills from the Westin 23 years ago. With kids sports, etc. we've tremendously underutilized our ownership. Now, I'm planning o retiring next year, we are in our 70's and have never travelled much, would like to do so now. Thought this might be a good pathway. But we are concerned about falling into the same issues with availability, strict rules and ever increasing maintenance fees. Thoughts?

Are you paying the Abound dues? Those would have been first billed to you for use year 2023. If you have been paying the Abound dues, then you are already able to access the program. Your Westin ownership is able to be used to elect Club Points, and then it is those points you utilize to book the MVC properties via Abound. Your dashboard will tell you how many Club Points your existing ownership is valued at.

Since the sales pitch is that you must get to 4000 Club Points (which is a lie), I'm guessing that your ownership elects under 4000 Club Points, meaning it is the lowest tier which happens to be named the "owner" level. There are 5 levels: owner, select, executive, presidential, chairman. Look on your dashboard for the benefits of the various levels. Every level can book any available MVC Trust inventory, the issue is that the entry level tier aka owner level has different booking rights in the Abound program for booking MVC properties. Your booking rights at where you own have not changed. Your VSN usage, should you desire to use your StarOptions, has not changed.

If you purchase resale MVC Trust Points, once the activation fee is paid ($3/pt, min $3k) those points work just like the ones you can purchase from the developer. The only difference with buying from the developer is you'll be offered incentives. Extra BonVoy points, or Bonus Points (one time usage valid for 2 years). You may also even be offered a credit of what you paid for your Mission Hills ownership all those years ago applied to the purchase price of a certain quantity of MVC Trust Points.

I'm not sure what availability issues you are referring to, especially if you have only used your Mission Hills ownership for the past 23 years. As to ever increasing MFs, well, it costs more for the properties to operate. Insurance, utilities, staffing, benefits, etc., plus properties are aging and need repairs, replacements, refurbishing, etc. The resorts are well maintained, but the older they get that costs more money. It's probably time to look at roof replacements at those properties reaching 30 years of age, and while capital replacements will be paid out of reserves, that means the reserves will need to be replenished, so the contributions will not decrease, they'll just be applied to different reserve accounts. Anyway, if you buy more timeshares, your MFs will obviously increase, and keep in mind that the MVC Trust pays the same MFs as any owner for the locations where it owns. So, owning Trust Points isn't going to "save" you MFs. It is just that the MFs billed to MVC Trust Point owners is a factor of the different locations owned by the Trust, and some locations have higher MFs than other locations, so it is basically an average.

I'd suggest that prior to buying more timeshares, you decide where it is you want to travel now that you are retiring. You may find that where you want to go isn't where the timeshares are located, so you'll just be frustrated. Don't buy MVC Trust Points with the thought that you'll use the points to book a cruise or exchange for BonVoy points and stay at hotels around the world. That is the most expensive way to use MVC Trust Points, because your MF on those points is greater than the cost to book the cruise directly or to buy BonVoy points from Marriott International directly. If you decide you want to travel to locations where the timeshares are plentiful, like Florida or Hawaii, then consider buying a resale week at that venue, if you hope to go there each year. It'll be a lot cheaper than buying MVC Trust Points.

 

[Hindsite]

But we are concerned about falling into the same issues with availability, strict rules and ever increasing maintenance fees. Thoughts?

Until you have used up every option of the very many ways you can use your ownership and exhausted II getaways and accom certs don't waste time thinking about buying more .

Once you've done that you'll be clear about what works for you and what, if any, you need to buy.

Then look at renting vs owning and the resale market to see what next.

Enjoy what you have all the best

 

[daviator]

I keep cringing every time I log on and see the title of this thread. Turning in your Vistana ownership and spending a bunch of money on MVC would not be an upgrade, at least in my view. Of course, Sales portrays it that way, but you have options owning directly at WMH that you would lose if you "upgraded."

 

[CuriousFullerton]

If you are a current Westin owner (pre July 2022) you are already a part of Abound - you do not need to purchase anything else to access the full Marriott Vistana ownership

I do understand that I can convert my 148,100 Vistana points to 3150 Marriott Club points, but the onsite sales folks are saying we need to buy over 4000 to access the MVC Owner's Trust properties on a priority basis. Also, it looks like the 3150 points won't get us many of the premium destinations. Is what they're saying true, or is more of the high pressure sales BS?

 

[Eric B]

I do understand that I can convert my 148,100 Vistana points to 3150 Marriott Club points, but the onsite sales folks are saying we need to buy over 4000 to access the MVC Owner's Trust properties on a priority basis. Also, it looks like the 3150 points won't get us many of the premium destinations. Is what they're saying true, or is more of the high pressure sales BS?

You could also rent club points from other owners rather than buy them. You can go to a lot of great locations in VSN already; have you identified any prime locations at high demand times you want access to?

IMO, being retired or able to work from home opens up a vast array of available travel destinations in the shoulder seasons when fewer people locked into work and school schedules can go. If you aren’t seeking crowds you might be well enough off already.

 

[LeslieDet]

I do understand that I can convert my 148,100 Vistana points to 3150 Marriott Club points, but the onsite sales folks are saying we need to buy over 4000 to access the MVC Owner's Trust properties on a priority basis. Also, it looks like the 3150 points won't get us many of the premium destinations. Is what they're saying true, or is more of the high pressure sales BS?

At owner level (the lowest tier) you can access any of the MVC Trust locations. The catch is that at your owner level, your booking rights are different than higher levels. Compare the different owner levels on your dashboard to understand the booking differences. Simply because you can only book 7 nights at 12 months means that you miss the opportunity to book at 13 months for MVC properties in the Trust. That is the "priority" you are missing out on. It is timing of the ability to make a reservation, not geographical location of where you can book.

As to your 3150 points not getting you to many of the "premium" destinations -- you are right, simply because it costs more than 3150 points to get there. It doesn't mean you are prohibited from booking, it means you don't have enough points to book. Think of it this way, you only have $20 on you and what you want costs $50. You can't buy it with what you have because of the price. If you want to book those costlier locations, then you need more currency to book it.

 

[daviator]

At owner level (the lowest tier) you can access any of the MVC Trust locations. The catch is that at your owner level, your booking rights are different than higher levels. Compare the different owner levels on your dashboard to understand the booking differences. Simply because you can only book 7 nights at 12 months means that you miss the opportunity to book at 13 months for MVC properties in the Trust. That is the "priority" you are missing out on. It is timing of the ability to make a reservation, not geographical location of where you can book.

As to your 3150 points not getting you to many of the "premium" destinations -- you are right, simply because it costs more than 3150 points to get there. It doesn't mean you are prohibited from booking, it means you don't have enough points to book. Think of it this way, you only have $20 on you and what you want costs $50. You can't buy it with what you have because of the price. If you want to book those costlier locations, then you need more currency to book it.

It's worth noting that the oft-touted ability to book at 13 months instead of 12 is not everything it seems to be.

1. Not all properties can be booked at 13 months (for example, Vistana properties cannot be booked before 12 months, even when their components are owned by the Abound trust.)

2. Only a small/limited amount of inventory (varies by property) is made available at 13 months. At some properties, NO (or almost no) inventory is available at 13 months. The bulk of inventory becomes available at 12 months and 12 months is when you are most likely to be able to book your desired property/properties through Abound.

3. I have not personally found the ability to book at 13 months to be significantly useful. If I was at a lower ownership level, I would not consider spending money just to gain that 13 month booking advantage; I don't really think it's much of an advantage but it might occasionally put you ahead of the herd in reserving something.

4. More of a general comment about Abound: the Abound trust does not own much or any inventory in quite a few of the MVC properties. In particular, some of the most coveted properties don't have much representation in the Trust. In the case of Vistana properties, you may have better luck booking them through VSN (using StarOptions) than through Abound. Trading in your ownership for Abound points takes away that option.

Abound is not a bad program and I like having access to it (just as you already have access to it) but I would not give up my Vistana weeks ownerships, they are more valuable and useful than trust points alone.

 

[LeslieDet]

It's worth noting that the oft-touted ability to book at 13 months instead of 12 is not everything it seems to be.

1. Not all properties can be booked at 13 months (for example, Vistana properties cannot be booked before 12 months, even when their components are owned by the Abound trust.)

2. Only a small/limited amount of inventory (varies by property) is made available at 13 months. At some properties, NO (or almost no) inventory is available at 13 months. The bulk of inventory becomes available at 12 months and 12 months is when you are most likely to be able to book your desired property/properties through Abound.

3. I have not personally found the ability to book at 13 months to be significantly useful. If I was at a lower ownership level, I would not consider spending money just to gain that 13 month booking advantage; I don't really think it's much of an advantage but it might occasionally put you ahead of the herd in reserving something.

4. More of a general comment about Abound: the Abound trust does not own much or any inventory in quite a few of the MVC properties. In particular, some of the most coveted properties don't have much representation in the Trust. In the case of Vistana properties, you may have better luck booking them through VSN (using StarOptions) than through Abound. Trading in your ownership for Abound points takes away that option.

Abound is not a bad program and I like having access to it (just as you already have access to it) but I would not give up my Vistana weeks ownerships, they are more valuable and useful than trust points alone.

That is why I specifically said that the 13 month booking is "for MVC properties in the Trust". I am aware it doesn't apply to any of the Westin or Sheraton exchanges or actual Westin VC or Sheraton VC components that may be owned by the MVC Trust.

The 13-month booking rule doesn't only apply to a "small" amount of inventory. The rule for MVC properties is 50% of the available Trust inventory is released at 13 months for the point bookings in MVC locations. There are some locations where the Trust owns a significant percentage of the components, and locations where it owns hardly anything. For all Trust components, whether owned or exchanged, the balance of the 50% of inventory is released at 12 months.

For Trust point bookings, it really depends upon where you want to go. If you hope to travel outside the USA, the trust owns nothing. Any and all inventory bookable with Club Points is exchange based only. All of the USA based properties developed in the past 14 years have been "city" locations, and are only available for Trust Point bookings: San Diego, San Francisco, NYC, Miami, Big Island, Waikiki, Washington DC.

I'm not sure how the "most coveted" is defined. The MVC Trust has a large ownership in those resorts that were in the process of being sold when Marriott International, Inc. decided to create the MVC Trust and dump the unsold inventory into it during the Great Recession. That is why Newport Coast, Las Vegas, and Ko'Olina have a significant representation in the Trust. Those locations may be coveted by some. IDK, it is personal opinion.

 

[daviator]

Thanks for the clarifications, Leslie. I should have tagged the OP because that's really who my comments were directed toward, but I appreciate your clarifications. And I didn't know that 50% of the trust ownership is made available at 13 months, that's useful knowledge. But it's important for everyone to know that the trust owns a lot of inventory at some properties and very little or no inventory at others, and so at many properties, your ability to book with Club Points depends on owners there giving up their annual usage by electing for club points themselves. The likelihood of that happening probably also varies by property.

 

[vacationtime1]

I do understand that I can convert my 148,100 Vistana points to 3150 Marriott Club points, but the onsite sales folks are saying we need to buy over 4000 to access the MVC Owner's Trust properties on a priority basis. Also, it looks like the 3150 points won't get us many of the premium destinations. Is what they're saying true, or is more of the high pressure sales BS?

3150 Club points is not a lot (as you have learned), but 148100 StarOptions is a lot. 148100 StarOptions will get you a week in a two bedroom unit at any Westin or Sheraton property including Hawaii, and at some Westin/Sheraton properties, more than a week. As others have suggested, first, learn to use what you already own before wasting spending money to buy more.

I also cringed at the word "Upgrade" in the thread title; the proposal you received looks like a downgrade to me -- but it would have been a nice commission for the saleman.

 

[dioxide45]

I keep cringing every time I log on and see the title of this thread. Turning in your Vistana ownership and spending a bunch of money on MVC would not be an upgrade, at least in my view. Of course, Sales portrays it that way, but you have options owning directly at WMH that you would lose if you "upgraded."

Everything is an upgrade.