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Update on Wyndham's position on use of guest certificates 2020

jerrybev

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weeks ago we decided not to go to myrtle beach, S.C. this June and called Wyndham to see if we could get a guest certificate and give the unit to a friend. I was told that it probably will get canceled. We went ahead and requested a guest certificate, it was granted and confirmation sent to us and our guest May 29. Corporate said, if it is going to be canceled, it will be canceled 14 days out, which would be May 29 and it was not canceled on May 29. However, On june 3, (9 days out from check in) we received an email that the reservation had been cancelled. We called Wyndham and they said that no guest certificates usage will be allowed through the end of year 2020. As result of Wyndham's action, we had to disappoint and inform our guest of the negative news that they had been canceled.
 

chapjim

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There are several other threads on the Wyndham forum that deal with the same matter. I don't claim to be an expert on the issue -- I don't think there are any. Several of us are trying to cobble together what is likely to happen in the various circumstances.

I had two extended chats with Wyndham vacation counselors earlier today. They can only tell you what is the policy today, not what it will be tomorrow nor how long it will last.

I have nine reservations in July, most of which I'll cancel. I may use one or two if I can. Or I may play around with some -- enter Presto deClown as a guest to see what happens.
 
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Sandi Bo

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I think it would make sense for Wyndham to prioritize reservations using complimentary guest certificates next in line (after owners). I'm not ready to burn mine (you can call me crazy). After all, those are something we earn/paid for with our ownership level. And more likely, than not, were encouraged by sales to purchase more points (for our friends, family, or rentals).

Agree, lots of speculations. And who knows what policy will be in place tomorrow. Who knows what the covid situation will look like tomorrow. Seems crazy to me, we're opening things up here in Nebraska and the hospital has never been more full - highest number of covid patients ever and we're doing elective surgeries. And yet we continue to loosen up.
 

Normita

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What I found interesting is that if you go on Wyndham's site, there is a section for non-owners to rent. There, they are even offering July rentals (none in June) at Bonnet Creek.
 

dgalati

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I have nine reservations in July, most of which I'll cancel. I may use one or two if I can. Or I may play around with some -- enter Presto deClown as a guest to see what happens.
 

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55plus

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If Wyndham Extra Holidays is renting there is no reason to cancel an owner reservation. Most owners with children only vacation during the summer because of school. The owners' use needs to have a priority over Wyndham Extra Holidays. If not them Wyndham timeshares are a scam and the word needs to be spread.
 

montygz

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If Wyndham Extra Holidays is renting there is no reason to cancel an owner reservation. Most owners with children only vacation during the summer because of school. The owners' use needs to have a priority over Wyndham Extra Holidays. If not them Wyndham timeshares are a scam and the word needs to be spread.
Doesn't Wyndham Extra Holidays rent the points of Wyndham owners? If Wyndham owners can't travel because of COVID or the economy, they may want to rent their points and recoup some money by using Extra Holidays.
 

lisa1001

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Why can Wyndham rent an owners point and an owner can't rent their own points directly.

Seems paradoxical to me
 

chapjim

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Why can Wyndham rent an owners point and an owner can't rent their own points directly.

Seems paradoxical to me

He who makes the rules, rules!
 

Sandi Bo

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Doesn't Wyndham Extra Holidays rent the points of Wyndham owners? If Wyndham owners can't travel because of COVID or the economy, they may want to rent their points and recoup some money by using Extra Holidays.
That is likely what Wyndham would LOVE to see happen. Perhaps part of the plan. There are numerous posts about how how using Extra Holidsays is not a great idea for owners. Wyndham takes a huge cut, if the rooms don't rent or only partially get rented, the owner is SOL. Shameful Wyndham won't allow owners to do what is in the owners best interest (and rent out their points themselves or allow friends or family to use them).
 

HitchHiker71

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Extra Holidays is Wyndham's timeshare rental arm. The source for inventory for Extra Holidays is threefold as follows:

1. Wyndham owned pooled points (which are sourced from existing Wyndham points ownership, Ovations, and third party resale contract purchases)
2. Wyndham dedicated rental units - Wyndham had dedicated units for the Sales & Marketing division and for employee use in the past - these units were ALL reallocated several years ago for rentals - these units were never part of the ownership base)
3. Owner pooled points - what most everyone else is referring to on this thread - points given to Wyndham to rent on behalf of owners.

With respect to the debate as to whether or not Wyndham should be renting via Extra Holidays during times of limited occupancy - and the argument as to whether Wyndham should prioritize owner based points and allow GC use over and above their own points pools - I get it and I understand the argument. But at the same time, Wyndham is a publicly held corporation - with a primary fiduciary responsibility to it's shareholders - NOT to the private timeshare owners. Sometimes these two categories align, and sometimes they do not. When they do not - it's a tough balancing act - because technically the SEC legally requires Wyndham to act in good faith to its fiduciary responsibilities and its shareholders. The SEC could care less about timeshare owners in reality. I think people conveniently minimize this important aspect of what Wyndham has to do as a publicly held company. So in this regard - if Wyndham can generate revenue during times of adversity by renting from all three categories of inventory listed above - even if it means existing owner ability to use GCs lose out - then that may very well occur - regardless of how anyone may feel about it.

I'm not saying this is actually happening just to be clear. I've seen many posts on Facebook groups indicating that people who have made reservations through Extra Holidays have had their reservations canceled as well. So it's not just owner GC reservations that are being cancelled. I don't know the order of events that dictate reservation cancellations though.
 

55plus

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Doesn't Wyndham Extra Holidays rent the points of Wyndham owners? If Wyndham owners can't travel because of COVID or the economy, they may want to rent their points and recoup some money by using Extra Holidays.
Why can Wyndham rent an owners point and an owner can't rent their own points directly.

Seems paradoxical to me
Not only does Wyndham rent out for other owners (at a very high cost to the owner), but Wyndham rents their millions upon million upon millions of points they maintain and control. Wyndham obtains these points through their develoments, Ovation, foreclosures, etc. Basically the points are in their inventory that have not sold yet. It's a commercial use enterprise. According to Wyndham's own policy commercial use is prohibited.
 

Eric B

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Not only does Wyndham rent out for other owners (at a very high cost to the owner), but Wyndham rents their millions upon million upon millions of points they maintain and control. Wyndham obtains these points through their develoments, Ovation, foreclosures, etc. Basically the points are in their inventory that have not sold yet. It's a commercial use enterprise. According to Wyndham's own policy commercial use is prohibited.

Not sure I would go as far as to say that. The policy you're referencing is in the member's directory, but is applicable to members/owners, not to Wyndham. The reason it exists is to prevent the potential competition from members/owners as "megarenters" and the effect they would have on Wyndham. IMHO, operating a timeshare business is a commercial use of the property in the first place, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to say that a timeshare operator cannot engage in commercial use of the property.
 

55plus

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Not sure I would go as far as to say that. The policy you're referencing is in the member's directory, but is applicable to members/owners, not to Wyndham. The reason it exists is to prevent the potential competition from members/owners as "megarenters" and the effect they would have on Wyndham. IMHO, operating a timeshare business is a commercial use of the property in the first place, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to say that a timeshare operator cannot engage in commercial use of the property.
Contracting with timeshare owners to broker their reservations is owners using their timeshare as a commercial venture, against Wyndham's policy. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's frustrating not finding availability on the owners' website, but finding it available to rent on Extra Holidays, Craigslist, etc. I have reservations for July and Extra Holidays has the exact same reservations for rent. If my reservation is cancelled and the Extra Holidays remains available to rent, I'm going to make a lot of noise. Wyndham stated in writing, "Owners First."
 

cbyrne1174

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I know I sound cynical but it's almost like Wyndham is trying to make it so owner's points expire before they can actually use them all. Most owners aren't savvy with point deposit and RCI. I always express book Bonnet Creek weekends in the fall just to make sure I use up every single point/ housekeeping credit I have, but others may not be so lucky to be that close to a resort that big.
 

dgalati

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Contracting with timeshare owners to broker their reservations is owners using their timeshare as a commercial venture, against Wyndham's policy. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's frustrating not finding availability on the owners' website, but finding it available to rent on Extra Holidays, Craigslist, etc. I have reservations for July and Extra Holidays has the exact same reservations for rent. If my reservation is cancelled and the Extra Holidays remains available to rent, I'm going to make a lot of noise. Wyndham stated in writing, "Owners First."
Disclaimer: It's owners first only if Wyndham isn't profiting off owners points with booking of Extra Holidays reservations.
Better yet if your reservation is cancelled book the Extra Holiday vacation and report back the out come.
 
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55plus

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Disclaimer: It's owners first only if Wyndham isn't profiting off owners points with booking of Extra Holidays reservations.
Better yet if your reservation is cancelled book the Extra Holiday vacation and report back the out come.
Thats my plan. Book it through Extra Holidays all the way up to payment if my reservation is cancelled. I'll make screenshots thought the booking process and raise some hell with Wyndham because I'll have evidence from their commercial use venture (Extra Holidays) website.
 

chapjim

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Thats my plan. Book it through Extra Holidays all the way up to payment if my reservation is cancelled. I'll make screenshots thought the booking process and raise some hell with Wyndham because I'll have evidence from their commercial use venture (Extra Holidays) website.

And Wyndham will say yes, Extra Holidays is commercial use, what's your point?
 

ronparise

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Extra Holidays is Wyndham's timeshare rental arm. The source for inventory for Extra Holidays is threefold as follows:

1. Wyndham owned pooled points (which are sourced from existing Wyndham points ownership, Ovations, and third party resale contract purchases)
2. Wyndham dedicated rental units - Wyndham had dedicated units for the Sales & Marketing division and for employee use in the past - these units were ALL reallocated several years ago for rentals - these units were never part of the ownership base)
3. Owner pooled points - what most everyone else is referring to on this thread - points given to Wyndham to rent on behalf of owners.

With respect to the debate as to whether or not Wyndham should be renting via Extra Holidays during times of limited occupancy - and the argument as to whether Wyndham should prioritize owner based points and allow GC use over and above their own points pools - I get it and I understand the argument. But at the same time, Wyndham is a publicly held corporation - with a primary fiduciary responsibility to it's shareholders - NOT to the private timeshare owners. Sometimes these two categories align, and sometimes they do not. When they do not - it's a tough balancing act - because technically the SEC legally requires Wyndham to act in good faith to its fiduciary responsibilities and its shareholders. The SEC could care less about timeshare owners in reality. I think people conveniently minimize this important aspect of what Wyndham has to do as a publicly held company. So in this regard - if Wyndham can generate revenue during times of adversity by renting from all three categories of inventory listed above - even if it means existing owner ability to use GCs lose out - then that may very well occur - regardless of how anyone may feel about it.

I'm not saying this is actually happening just to be clear. I've seen many posts on Facebook groups indicating that people who have made reservations through Extra Holidays have had their reservations canceled as well. So it's not just owner GC reservations that are being cancelled. I don't know the order of events that dictate reservation cancellations though.

There is another source of points for wyndham's rentals and that is the points owners exchange for airfare, cruises car rentals etc

and another consequence of the no guest reservations policy is that the last of the mega-renters are being squeezed pretty hard
 

55plus

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And Wyndham will say yes, Extra Holidays is commercial use, what's your point?
My point is, is Wyndham going to honor their word, "Owners First?"
 

Eric B

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My guess is they will. Owners have a demonstrated willingness to buy TS, while renters don’t. It might be interesting to see the comparative sales conversion rate for each. Concentrating on owner reservations might be consistent with fiduciary duties to shareholders, followed by exchanges, then rentals. Follow the money, as Deep Throat said.
 

dgalati

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There is another source of points for wyndham's rentals and that is the points owners exchange for airfare, cruises car rentals etc

and another consequence of the no guest reservations policy is that the last of the mega-renters are being squeezed pretty hard
Some how I believe many are being squeezed out by the policy of eliminating GC,s and helping owners first. Its also helping to eliminate the competition to Extra holidays rentals.
 

dgalati

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My point is, is Wyndham going to honor their word, "Owners First?"
Only if it dosen't affect their bottom line. Look at all the programs that help owners. Ovations for example. Great way to buy back inventory for $0 or help a owner exit at no cost to Wyndham. Its not about helping owners never ever will be. it's all about Wyndham taking what owners will give them coming or going. Spin it any way you want Wyndham bottom line comes first.
 

grey678

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We have been owners since the 90's and not using our time like before, and have let friends and family use our time, It seems we have been left out of this situation, We are VIP'
Silver and have several weeks, Not excessive. We pay our main, fees, homeowner fees etc and we should be able to use our weeks as we see not someone else. Wyndham doesn't mind taking our monies. We pay far more than the one week owner and should have the same privileges. That being said we should have been allowed to use some of our time as others have.
We feel when all is said and done new guidelines will be written to cover this situation. I have seen where one couple says a class action law suite is being filed. We certainly understand why.
The policy should be fair to all owners, elimination guest certificates is certainly not fair.
 

dgalati

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It
We have been owners since the 90's and not using our time like before, and have let friends and family use our time, It seems we have been left out of this situation, We are VIP'
Silver and have several weeks, Not excessive. We pay our main, fees, homeowner fees etc and we should be able to use our weeks as we see not someone else. Wyndham doesn't mind taking our monies. We pay far more than the one week owner and should have the same privileges. That being said we should have been allowed to use some of our time as others have.
We feel when all is said and done new guidelines will be written to cover this situation. I have seen where one couple says a class action law suite is being filed. We certainly understand why.
The policy should be fair to all owners, elimination guest certificates is certainly not fair.
It all depends on if you use GC's. Why give priority to a guest's or rental reservation over a owners? Should a GC's or a rental reservation take priority over a owners? Good luck winning a class action vs Wyndham. Wyhdham has the right to change club rules when they decide it neccessary.
 
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