{UNLOCKED] Wyndham notice RE commercial use

[WManning]

wrong again. People were still booking and rebooking. Yes the change made it harder but it was still being done.

Not very likely a cancel and rebook. More likely a book, book and then cancel.

 

[WManning]

I am still in Florida. I am renting from other owners since I used up all my 2022 and 2023 points. I am still catching Wyndham sales agents lying to potential buyers that they can rent to pay for VIP and I am referring those guests to this site to follow the debate of whether you can do or not. I am hoping that because of the revolt here by owners who use guest passes is causing Wyndham to compromise because we are costing them business. Three things indicate to me that they may. First is the waiting list. That should make those who were unhappy that some owners would book a room a year ahead and then cancel to rebook at lower points. They will not get the room back if other owners want it. Second, is the phone verification. That should slow down those who are really a commercial business. Third is something many of you may not know. Wyndham has joined a partnership with Airbnb. Those who have listings on Airbnb have told me they received a letter about this from Airbnb. That Wyndham is going to help them host at the resorts but want approval on the wording of the listing and confirm that the host is a owner. If not a trick to catch who is renting on Airbnb, that would also put a stop to the real commercial business and allow owners to continue to rent to pay for their costs. Several questions, is this a trick? Did Wyndham realize how much they were hurting owners who were depending on that rental income? Or did Wyndham realize if this country does slip into recession, their business will suffer because sales and hotel guests will dwindle. Already short-term renters across the country are complaining about how their rentals have dried up with the slowing economy. So, one can assume the hotel business is also suffering. So, they may let people continue to rent now except for those popular dates and resorts and then stop the rentals once the economy recovers. I sure hope it is not a trick and a real compromise since I have enjoyed my time using Wyndham. I do not want to leave. But I would have never bought if I could not have rented. If Wyndham continues to step on those who did nothing wrong, then I do not want to continue to pay them.

Sounds like you need to walk away and leave your shoes on the mat!

 

[RENTER]

Since 2017 owners have been rebooking available inventory and then canceling their original reservation, but

was over as of May 2017. Nobody’s been getting their own room back reliably.

you have no idea what is going on. So maybe while you're sitting there drinking whatever you're drinking you may think of ways how people are working it. Oh, by the way, Wyndham is approving owner's rental postings on short term rental sites. They are not allowed to post unless Wyndham reviews it and I understand why. I have heard horror stories about resort staff being yelled at because the owner did not explain things to their renters. If Wyndham requests changes, they must make it before they are allowed to post on the short-term rental site. The short-term rental sites and Wyndham are working together.

 

[CO skier]

you have no idea what is going on.

I, and probably most everyone else reading your posts, think the exact same thing about you.

 

[Sloane S]

Oh, by the way, Wyndham is approving owner's rental postings on short term rental sites. They are not allowed to post unless Wyndham reviews it

Exactly which short term rental sites is this occurring on, besides Extra Holidays and the above claimed Airbnb?

 

[Sandi Bo]

you have no idea what is going on. So maybe while you're sitting there drinking whatever you're drinking you may think of ways how people are working it. Oh, by the way, Wyndham is approving owner's rental postings on short term rental sites. They are not allowed to post unless Wyndham reviews it and I understand why. I have heard horror stories about resort staff being yelled at because the owner did not explain things to their renters. If Wyndham requests changes, they must make it before they are allowed to post on the short-term rental site. The short-term rental sites and Wyndham are working together.

Exactly which short term rental sites is this occurring on, besides Extra Holidays and the above claimed Airbnb?

And...what is the process for getting approved by Wyndham? Inquiring minds want to know. Would love to see an example of a short-term, approved, rental posting.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I am still in Florida. I am renting from other owners since I used up all my 2022 and 2023 points. I am still catching Wyndham sales agents lying to potential buyers that they can rent to pay for VIP and I am referring those guests to this site to follow the debate of whether you can do or not. I am hoping that because of the revolt here by owners who use guest passes is causing Wyndham to compromise because we are costing them business. Three things indicate to me that they may. First is the waiting list. That should make those who were unhappy that some owners would book a room a year ahead and then cancel to rebook at lower points. They will not get the room back if other owners want it. Second, is the phone verification. That should slow down those who are really a commercial business. Third is something many of you may not know. Wyndham has joined a partnership with Airbnb. Those who have listings on Airbnb have told me they received a letter about this from Airbnb. That Wyndham is going to help them host at the resorts but want approval on the wording of the listing and confirm that the host is a owner. If not a trick to catch who is renting on Airbnb, that would also put a stop to the real commercial business and allow owners to continue to rent to pay for their costs. Several questions, is this a trick? Did Wyndham realize how much they were hurting owners who were depending on that rental income? Or did Wyndham realize if this country does slip into recession, their business will suffer because sales and hotel guests will dwindle. Already short-term renters across the country are complaining about how their rentals have dried up with the slowing economy. So, one can assume the hotel business is also suffering. So, they may let people continue to rent now except for those popular dates and resorts and then stop the rentals once the economy recovers. I sure hope it is not a trick and a real compromise since I have enjoyed my time using Wyndham. I do not want to leave. But I would have never bought if I could not have rented. If Wyndham continues to step on those who did nothing wrong, then I do not want to continue to pay them.

Please produce a copy of this alleged letter sent to owners from Airbnb. I also know a few owners who actively used Airbnb for Wyndham rentals so I will make inquiries to them directly to substantiate your claim. I have not seen any references to any Airbnb letters on the FB groups either, which is very odd since someone would have posted such a letter to validate if anyone else received similar correspondence. It’s possible that I may have missed such a posting - but the fellow admins/moderators that I know and work with from the FB groups likely would have pointed something like this out previously. I’m from the Missouri state - show us the evidence.


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[paxsarah]

you have no idea what is going on. So maybe while you're sitting there drinking whatever you're drinking you may think of ways how people are working it.

This leaves me with two questions:
1. Do your cancellations come back instantly or at a predictable interval so you can rebook them when they come back into inventory? Obviously you can’t tell us the exact interval because I’m sure you want to keep it proprietary, but surely you’d take pleasure in confirming that you’ve been able to crack the code on something (figuring out how to reliably and safely rebook one’s own cancelled reservation) that nobody here has been able to do since 2017.

2. This still doesn’t explain to me how the waitlist would finally eliminate this practice, since the waitlist isn’t active in the discount window. How does the waitlist change anything here?

 

[chapjim]

I, and probably most everyone else reading your posts, think the exact same thing about you.

When was it that another know-it-all newbie came crashing in full of bluster and hubris about taking on Wyndham? A year or so ago? Anyway, this guy sounds like that guy.

 

[chapjim]

you have no idea what is going on. So maybe while you're sitting there drinking whatever you're drinking you may think of ways how people are working it. Oh, by the way, Wyndham is approving owner's rental postings on short term rental sites. They are not allowed to post unless Wyndham reviews it and I understand why. I have heard horror stories about resort staff being yelled at because the owner did not explain things to their renters. If Wyndham requests changes, they must make it before they are allowed to post on the short-term rental site. The short-term rental sites and Wyndham are working together.

@paxsarah is one of the most thoughtful, succinct, and knowledgeable posters on this forum.

 

[RENTER]

I have been told more listings have been approved by Wyndham on short term rental sites. So, it appears we are allowed to rent there as long as we allow Wyndham to review the listings and ask us to make any changes they request. So far there have been no change requests because the postings pretty much covered everything. It is a reasonable request since the resort staff told me they have been screamed at because the host owner did not explain to the renter how things worked. The message of the partnership between the short-term rental site and Wyndham comes from the rental site. They say that we have to allow Wyndham access within 30 days, or we can no longer post on their site. Once we allow them, Wyndham will approve the listing within 2 days which is what they have done so far. No one I have talked to have been denied. They say this is a common thing they do with buildings that have homeowner associations. They did provide standard paperwork how this works and one of the things is that the building management can ask for a share of the revenue and that the rental site company will pay it from what they own us. As far as I know, Wyndham has not asked for a piece of the action. I DO NOT KNOW if Wyndham is only going to allow renting thru these short-term rental sites. So far, they have only made this partnership with a few resorts that I know off. Bonnett Creek is one of them. I do not have time to review responses especially snide remarks from those who told us we had no chance to change Wyndham's mind. So, I will post and move on rather then get into arguments with people. I will keep you informed what is going on. Hopefully this is not a trick to shut us down. Hopefully Wyndham has realized that many including them have benefitting from owners renting. For years I said that the short-term rental sites should partner up with the timeshares. They were having so many problems with short term rentals in residential areas and timeshares are in areas zoned for hotels. Plus, they were so many owners struggling to pay for their timeshare. It was a good match.

 

[bnoble]

I'm reminded of this classic bit from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

 

[tschwa2]

I have been told more listings have been approved by Wyndham on short term rental sites. So, it appears we are allowed to rent there as long as we allow Wyndham to review the listings and ask us to make any changes they request. So far there have been no change requests because the postings pretty much covered everything. It is a reasonable request since the resort staff told me they have been screamed at because the host owner did not explain to the renter how things worked. The message of the partnership between the short-term rental site and Wyndham comes from the rental site. They say that we have to allow Wyndham access within 30 days, or we can no longer post on their site. Once we allow them, Wyndham will approve the listing within 2 days which is what they have done so far. No one I have talked to have been denied. They say this is a common thing they do with buildings that have homeowner associations. They did provide standard paperwork how this works and one of the things is that the building management can ask for a share of the revenue and that the rental site company will pay it from what they own us. As far as I know, Wyndham has not asked for a piece of the action. I DO NOT KNOW if Wyndham is only going to allow renting thru these short-term rental sites. So far, they have only made this partnership with a few resorts that I know off. Bonnett Creek is one of them. I do not have time to review responses especially snide remarks from those who told us we had no chance to change Wyndham's mind. So, I will post and move on rather then get into arguments with people. I will keep you informed what is going on. Hopefully this is not a trick to shut us down. Hopefully Wyndham has realized that many including them have benefitting from owners renting. For years I said that the short-term rental sites should partner up with the timeshares. They were having so many problems with short term rentals in residential areas and timeshares are in areas zoned for hotels. Plus, they were so many owners struggling to pay for their timeshare. It was a good match.

I may have missed it but who told you that wyndham is approving of these listings and telling you about the "standard paperwork" that wyndham or wyndham hoa's are providing.

 

[Sandy VDH]

@RENTER can you specifically tell us the name of these short term rental sites?

 

[Sloane S]

@RENTER can you specifically tell us the name of these short term rental sites?

Of course not. He has specifically ignored those questions, and any request for substantiation or examples of his claims.

 

[chapjim]

Of course not. He has specifically ignored those questions, and any request for substantiation or examples of his claims.

He "has been told!" That's supposed to be enough.

 

[RENTER]

Just a warning. This so call partnership between Wyndham and short-term rental sites may be a trap to catch those they have not sent letters to. These people have been off the radar and were still renting. Some have no idea that they were not allowed to. For those who did, this partnership may make it for them to feel safe and join and post on a short-term rental site and submit their listing to Wyndham for approval. Then Wyndham approves and then springs the trap later with the commercial business BS. Another thing, not all owners at a resort on short term rental sites receive a partnership notice because they left out one thing from their posting that keeps them off the radar. So, the question is, if Wyndham approves you to rent on a short-term rental site, can they still tag you as a commercial business and cancel your guest passes? I am going to take the bait and try. When I get free time, I am going to submit create postings at resorts they are doing it at and adding that missing piece of info. Then wait for that partnership notice and then submit it for approval. If it is a trap, it will be the last time I paid them a dime and should strengthen our case against them. Once again, unlike those who monitor this site every day to attack others, I do not have time. So, PM me if you need additional info.

 

[Sloane S]

Once again, unlike those who monitor this site every day to attack others, I do not have time. So, PM me if you need additional info.

And once again vague, unsubstantiated claims about Wyndham approving rentals on "some short-term rental sites".

It's like the return of RRlongwell.

 

[am1]

And once again vague, unsubstantiated claims about Wyndham approving rentals on "some short-term rental sites".

It's like the return of RRlongwell.

Banning some and offically allowing others without a notice to all would open them up to lawsuits.

 

[Sloane S]

Banning some and officially allowing others without a notice to all would open them up to lawsuits.

Well, he is doing this to "strengthen our case against them"

 

[tschwa2]

Just a warning. This so call partnership between Wyndham and short-term rental sites may be a trap to catch those they have not sent letters to. These people have been off the radar and were still renting. Some have no idea that they were not allowed to. For those who did, this partnership may make it for them to feel safe and join and post on a short-term rental site and submit their listing to Wyndham for approval. Then Wyndham approves and then springs the trap later with the commercial business BS. Another thing, not all owners at a resort on short term rental sites receive a partnership notice because they left out one thing from their posting that keeps them off the radar. So, the question is, if Wyndham approves you to rent on a short-term rental site, can they still tag you as a commercial business and cancel your guest passes? I am going to take the bait and try. When I get free time, I am going to submit create postings at resorts they are doing it at and adding that missing piece of info. Then wait for that partnership notice and then submit it for approval. If it is a trap, it will be the last time I paid them a dime and should strengthen our case against them. Once again, unlike those who monitor this site every day to attack others, I do not have time. So, PM me if you need additional info.

The only one that has suggested that there is a partnership between Wyndham and short term owner rental sites is you. You assured us that there was such a partnership because someone who you won't name told you so. And now you are calling it a "so called partnership"? How the heck would we know if it is a trap when the only evidence presented of its existence is from your "so called sources" and we have no clue what such a partnership letter may or may not say. By all means take you own bait if you have the time.

 

[Jan M.]

In the past I've said repeatedly that the glut of owners renting at bargain basement prices compared to what Extra Holidays charges would be an issue for Wyndham. That they've invested too much time and money into developing, advertising and operating Extra Holidays to not eventually have to do something about it. One doesn't have to be a business whiz to understand that.

I haven't been a fan of Extra Holidays in the past but I'm learning from friends who are now using EH that things have changed.

Here's some things to consider.

1. Owners who rent for less than Extra Holidays gets devalue the product. That not only hurts EH but also other owners.

2. If an owner is using a point manager the point managers are making at least 40%.

3. Extra Holidays can advertise the rentals and sell them in more ways than the owner or point manager can. EH is selling owners stays on the different travel sites; not just on the EH website.

4. If the entire reservation doesn't get sold but some or all of the remaining nights do later sell Extra Holidays is now paying the owners for those nights. I don't know when this change came about but it's huge plus for owners. Also from what I learned the owner isn't being charged for the additional housekeeping credits if those other nights sell.

5. Extra Holidays offers security to the buyer that they don't get when they rent directly from owners and point managers. Some of you might not be aware that there's been a number of issues and I'm not talking about a few isolated incidents. This is something the heavily rented resorts in particular deal with and have reported up the chain of command.

6. Wyndham is allowing owners who've gotten "the letters" to rent through EH.

7. But I'll have to deal with reporting it on my taxes if I use EH! Unless the buyer is paying the owner in cash or by check for their rental using the payment sites/apps isn't a way around that anymore or not for much longer.

8. Owners always have the option to call in and cancel a reservation if no part of it rented as long as it's still 15 days before the check in date. However if the owner has a good reservation EH reps are advising that there's a lot of people buying stays with two weeks of the check in date. This is something the mega renters and point managers know and why they find it worthwhile not to cancel some reservations that haven't yet rented.

9. Extra Holidays reps have lists of resorts and dates that are needed to help owners with what to book. From what I was told they will not take reservations for stays on the Owner Priority lists. Also the reservation only has to be 30 days out now not 60 days like it used to be.

10. The buyers being allowed to cancel with 14 days is still a major concern for owners who use Extra Holidays. I'm sure that Wyndham is working on a solution. Is there already an option for the reservation to be purchased as refundable or nonrefundable? Although anyone who rents on their own either has or eventually will have to deal with a buyer who has a death in the family, an accident or illness that makes the family unable to go, weather related issues, etc.

 

[Cyrus24]

I haven't been a fan of Extra Holidays in the past but I'm learning from friends who are now using EH that things have changed.

My one and only experience with EH was AWFUL. Unlike during 2020/2021, I no longer have excess points. But, if I do end up with excess points, I'll give EH another try. Maybe.

 

[CO skier]

4. If the entire reservation doesn't get sold but some or all of the remaining nights do later sell Extra Holidays is now paying the owners for those nights. I don't know when this change came about but it's huge plus for owners. Also from what I learned the owner isn't being charged for the additional housekeeping credits if those other nights sell.

Definitely not an Extra Holidays expert, but I thought this was always the case. What?, "If the entire reservation doesn't get sold but some or all of the remaining nights do later sell" Wyndham just kept the rental money on the remaining nights before now?

 

[Jan M.]

Definitely not an Extra Holidays expert, but I thought this was always the case. What?, "If the entire reservation doesn't get sold but some or all of the remaining nights do later sell" Wyndham just kept the rental money on the remaining nights before now?

Yes, in the past the owners just forfeited the nights that didn't sell in the initial purchase.