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Trouble Making NCV Reservation at 13 Months

SueDonJ

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How do you see things working between the II bot sweeping up deposited inventory to be matched overnight to II exchange requests vs. a DC system that also automatically sees that inventory and in your mind adds that inventory to the DC availability we all see online. Seems these two would be constantly working against each other if this were the case.

I don't know how much of a barrier still exists between II and MVW's DC pools, whether a designated II deposit is effectively showing as available in both II's and MVW's DC pools separately or in a single pool. But either way, I think matched intervals are immediately designated, "out of the pool/no longer available/whatever" based on which system's sweep gets to them first.
 
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Fasttr

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I think it's immediately designated, "out of the pool/no longer available/whatever" based on which system's sweep gets to it first.
Interesting. If you are right, its another reason for non-enrolled owners who primarily use II to be pi$$ed off.
 

SueDonJ

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Interesting. If you are right, its another reason for non-enrolled owners who primarily use II to be pi$$ed off.

Why? If an II user makes a request prior to a DC Points user, the II user should be matched.
 

SueDonJ

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No it's not. Show me a CC&R that says that. Marriott cheats and reserves its weeks automatically via computer for it's "Club." Something no other owner can do.

For what it's worth, and admittedly not knowing how the DC affects this specifically, the SurfWatch governing docs explicitly exclude MVW from being allowed the same access to the 13-mos (Weeks) Reservation Window that owners have. I don't have them with me here but can follow up with the quoted text when I'm back in MA next month. :)

{eta} Now that I think about it, this could be one reason that at some resorts there's very little DC inventory at the 13-mos window and then many become available at the 12-mos window??
 

Fasttr

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Why? If an II user makes a request prior to a DC Points user, the II user should be matched.
Its my understanding that the II bot sweeps recent deposits at certain intervals during the day in order to match to requests via an overnight process (again, my understanding could be wrong, its just what I have gleaned reading Tug). If a DC member is online and has the ability to snatch that inventory from II before it can be swept by the bot and matched to an II request (which could have been made months earlier), it seems to me the DC person is getting preferential treatment they do not really disserve. Again, this is all hypothetical and merely me challenging your view of how it works. In reality, who the heck knows, but without speculation, how much fun would Tug be....right?
 

SueDonJ

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Its my understanding that the II bot sweeps recent deposits at certain intervals during the day in order to match to requests via an overnight process (again, my understanding could be wrong, its just what I have gleaned reading Tug). If a DC member is online and has the ability to snatch that inventory from II before it can be swept by the bot and matched to an II request (which could have been made months earlier), it seems to me the DC person is getting preferential treatment they do not really disserve. Again, this is all hypothetical and merely me challenging your view of how it works. In reality, who the heck knows, but without speculation, how much fun would Tug be....right?

Right! I'm definitely not saying that the way I *think* it works is THE WAY!

II isn't my strong suit, not by a mile. When a deposit's made, is the interval immediately placed into the "Available" pool, which could mean that a DC Points user might access it prior to the II bot matching it to an existing request? Or, is the deposit process also an overnight process, in which case II's system could immediately match it to an existing request thus making it ineligible to be coded "Available" for DC?
 

Fasttr

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Right! I'm definitely not saying that the way I *think* it works is THE WAY!

II isn't my strong suit, not by a mile. When a deposit's made, is the interval immediately placed into the "Available" pool, which could mean that a DC Points user might access it prior to the II bot matching it to an existing request? Or, is the deposit process also an overnight process, in which case II's system could immediately match it to an existing request thus making it ineligible to be coded "Available" for DC?
Your option B would make it more fair for sure.
 

Dean

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No it's not. Show me a CC&R that says that. Marriott cheats and reserves its weeks automatically via computer for it's "Club." Something no other owner can do.
That is not my understanding. My understand is they make X amount of time available for the DC club and the trust for a given entire season of a resort then once the weeks are gone, they are gone subject to the other availability limitations. Both weeks and points owners are then competing for the same inventory as they go along until one group or the other exhaust their available reservation options either # of weeks remaining to be reserved by weeks owners and # of weeks that season for weeks either in the trust or weeks turned over for points to the DC system. From what I can find out, MVC does not prebook those weeks for the points system as an interim step.
 

DanCali

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I am a multiple week owner at NCV and had a similar problem last year (when booking the 2020 reservations). I did have much better luck at 12 months out booking the reservations online.

I suspect the following:

Since they release 50% of the inventory at 13+ months out and 50% of the inventory at 12 months out you actually have a lot more availability at 12 months out when you try to book. The reason is that part of that 50% at 13 months out gets booked up by multiple week owners who reserved multiple weeks before you - e.g., owners booking from mid July to mid August. So if you try to book your first week for early August, you will not have 50% of the inventory free by the time you call. In contract, I believe the 12 month inventory is literally 50% of available units when that becomes available.

(this is basically the same thing SueDonJ said in post #13)

....So if five owners call in prior to that opening and book consecutive strings that begin prior to and include Week 30, when the 13-mos window for it opens there won't be availability for anybody.

The 12-mos window is different. There must be at least 50% of intervals available to everyone. If you're not successful at the 13-mos window opening, keep trying throughout that month because cancellations do get put book into the pool, and if that doesn't work then definitely be online the second the 12-mos window opens.
 
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shellbelle

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I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me understand this process and report that I was able to reserve the two weeks I really wanted (concurrent occupancy) for July of 2021 when the 12 month window opened this morning. I had made backup reservations with check in a week earlier than I really wanted on points but can now cancel those, thank goodness, because the backup reservations cost 4725 points each to book but I only get 3576 points per week if I elect to turn my platinum weeks into points. Wow—just re-read that and realized I way overexplained just to say THANK YOU!
 

shellbelle

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That is the very reason I did not buy a week at NCV. The weeks are reasonably priced, but I don't think an owner could ever get a summer week. I will stick to HHI and SurfWatch if I can get another 3 bedroom villa. That extra bedroom really makes a difference when you are there with family. Good luck in getting your week.
Got them both at 12 rather than 13 months. I agree that a 3 bedroom villa is nicer than a two bedroom villa, but for our family a three bedroom is too small; we really need two two bedrooms. NCV works well for us both because it’s all 2 bedroom villas and because our big family (13 people) can get there by car rather than all flying. Every even year we take all the kids and grandkids to Hawaii using our WKORV villas—the standard “deal” with the kids is we provide the place to stay, rental cars, 1/2 the airfare cost, and stock the fridges. Then in odd years we want to start a tradition of going with everyone to NCV—we provide the place to stay and food, but the kids and their families can drive themselves, making it more affordable for everyone. I expect it won’t be too many more years before we need three two bedroom units at a time to accommodate us all.
 

shellbelle

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Congratulations! I am glad to hear you were able to reserve a week that you wanted.

I tried to get a Saturday check in for several weeks in July 2021 using the 13 month window and couldn’t get one or even a Sunday checkin. I finally got Sunday, August 1. I am going to try again at the 12 month window. Hopefully it works, but at least we have a fall back.

Best regards.

Mike
Have you been able to get your week at the 12 month window?
 

mjm1

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Have you been able to get your week at the 12 month window?

Yes, we were able to get our Saturday check in for next year. I called right at opening time. However, I have not been able to do so for the Saturday after the fixed week that includes July 4. Later July works well for us, so I am OK with that.

Best regards.

Mike
 

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That is not my understanding. My understand is they make X amount of time available for the DC club and the trust for a given entire season of a resort then once the weeks are gone, they are gone subject to the other availability limitations. Both weeks and points owners are then competing for the same inventory as they go along until one group or the other exhaust their available reservation options either # of weeks remaining to be reserved by weeks owners and # of weeks that season for weeks either in the trust or weeks turned over for points to the DC system. From what I can find out, MVC does not prebook those weeks for the points system as an interim step.
Many people presume the same thing. But the D club is just another owner. Whst gives them the right to make x time available for its club and I can't do the same thing?
 

SueDonJ

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Many people presume the same thing. But the D club is just another owner. Whst gives them the right to make x time available for its club and I can't do the same thing?

Here's how *I think* inventory allocation works on the MVW side. I'm not saying this is THE definitive process but it's the one that makes the most sense to me without violating any of the t&c's in the original Weeks governing docs.

For Owned Weeks, not-DC-enrolled and DC-enrolled-but-un-elected-for-DC-Exchange-Points, MVW must ensure that for every Weeks Owner who is within his/her rights to usage, there will remain available an interval that correlates to the resort/season/unit size/unit view owned. I take this to mean that if, for example, 5 owners of a SurfWatch/Gold/3BR/Oceanside are still within open Reservation Windows then MVW must ensure that 5 of those intervals remain untouched by MVW until those 5 owners have either elected usage or have allowed all applicable Reservation Windows to expire. I think, however, that unless it's expressly stated otherwise in the governing docs, MVW has as much right to the first-come-first-served metric as all other owners meaning that MVW isn't required to make sure that *every* calendar week in a season remains available for those 5 to pick and choose first.

For DC-Enrolled Weeks which have been elected for DC Exchange Points, similar to the above, MVW can access and then manipulate through any buckets any intervals that correlate to the resort/season/unit size/unit view intervals that have been given up by Owners. The caveat here is that a DC Exchange Points election can be made in advance of any Reservation Windows opening for such intervals, and MVW hasn't ever been transparent about exactly when they begin the process of picking and choosing their intervals. Again, I think that because their constraints are so restrictive with regard to legal stipulations that ensure protection of Owners' rights, they don't access anything until the correct Reservation Windows open and then only insofar as they're taking pains to ensure they don't violate any of the restrictions they face.

For Weeks which are owned by MVW, i.e. original unsold or bought-back inventory which have not been conveyed to the DC Trust (of which we have no way of knowing if any/how many exist,) MVW can manipulate this inventory via any of the usage buckets providing that their manipulation does not infringe on the usage rights of Weeks Owners who are still within their rights to use it but have yet to elect usage. Again I take this to mean that as long as *any* unbooked Week of the same resort/season/unit size/unit view remains available for any Owner who is yet to book, MVW has the same first-come-first-serve rights to *any* unbooked Weeks that correlate unless the governing docs specifically restrict MVW's rights (as just one example, the SurfWatch docs do prohibit MVW from utilizing the 13-mos Reservation Window to reserve consecutive/concurrent Weeks.)

For Weeks which have been conveyed to the DC Trust by MVW, the Trustee (for all intents and purposes, MVW) can manipulate intervals into the DC Exchange Company at will provided that a correlating amount of inventory remains available (via either the DC Trust or the DC Exchange Company) for Trust Members who are still within their rights to use it but have not yet elected usage; can deposit intervals into II when a Trust Member elects to use his/her Trust Points to exchange via II to a non-Marriott resort/property*; can "sell" intervals to Marriott, Int'l when a Trust Member elects to exchange his/her Trust Points for Bonvoy Points**; can manipulate inventory in various (not fully unexplained, as far as I know) ways when Trust Members elect to use their Trust Points for any other offerings such as cruises, luxury homes, trip insurance, resort credits, etc...

*MVW has never been transparent in explaining if/how the contractual arrangement between MVW and II constrains them to the same or similar like-for-like limitations that Weeks Owners have always faced. MVW personnel have over the years said vague things that have been assumed by many to mean that they face the same limitations we do, but there isn't definitive language in any of the docs that support it unconditionally.

**Here too, MVW has never been transparent in explaining if/how the contractual arrangement between MVW and Bonvoy constrains them to any kind of like-for-like limitations. It's understood that when a Weeks Owner elects a Bonvoy Points exchange *an* interval that correlates to that resort/season/unit size/unit view (but possibly not that *particular* interval) is given to MI and it's known that MVW pays cash to MI for Bonvoy Points in some situations (that they then use as incentives, reparations etc.) With Trust Points:Bonvoy Points exchanges, though, the only certainty is the number of Bonvoy Points that are allotted - what remains unknown are the actual intervals that the Trustee gives over to MI and when. Generally the Reservation Windows for booking cash stays with MI are later than the Reservation Window openings for owners, though, so until it appears otherwise I give MVW the benefit of the doubt that they're not raiding inventory at the timeshare openings for these intervals.

*************

As usual, I wrote a book and probably will bonk my head off the desk later when it hits me how I could have said something differently with far fewer words. :)
 

Dean

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Many people presume the same thing. But the D club is just another owner. Whst gives them the right to make x time available for its club and I can't do the same thing?
I think "Fair" is in the eye's of the beholder. Realistically there has to be some type of crossover system and it's a certainty that no matter what they chose, someone will think it's fair and others not fair. I've investigated this quite a bit and other than having inside information which I don't have, I feel I have a pretty good handle on the basics. MVC is not reserving the weeks then giving them to the DC, they are giving the DC owners access to available weeks. It appears to me they are opening the flood gates at 13 months until the released inventory is gone. They may be further limiting the number of weeks that can be reserved by the DC on a weekly basis and I wouldn't be surprised if they are but I have not been able to ascertain that. Technically the DC is not an owner but an exchange system so your point is really how do you balance the various real owner usage. Do I suspect that the DC system gives priority to one over the other and the answer is I do esp for resorts where the demand for certain weeks is variable with a given season. For areas like HHI, esp at all but Barony & Surfwatch, I think the system, as I understand it, favors those with several (more than 2) weeks to reserve at 13 months out consecutively then points owners over everyone else. Of course there is also a stratification within the DC as well.
 

SueDonJ

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... MVC is not reserving the weeks then giving them to the DC, they are giving the DC owners access to available weeks. It appears to me they are opening the flood gates at 13 months until the released inventory is gone. ...

That's my thinking, too, that all inventory manipulations happen in real time at the time of requests and not before, with pains taken to make sure none of it violates inventory controls. (Although I and others have seen instances where DC Exchange Company inventory of select high-demand intervals is actually less than what can be reasonably expected.) It appears to be that they use a relatively simple computer coding process, on the front and back ends of usage elections, to ensure that the rights of all involved - Un-enrolled Weeks Owners, Enrolled Weeks Owners, DC Trust Members, *and* MVW - are protected equally.

@davidvel, you've mentioned a few times that MVW uses a computer to pre-book Weeks intervals for its Destination Club. If I thought that's what they are doing I'd be as adamant as you are that they're in the wrong, especially as I seem to remember language in the original Weeks governing docs that prohibits it in any event. Why is it that you think they are?
 

Dean

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That's my thinking, too, that all inventory manipulations happen in real time at the time of requests and not before, with pains taken to make sure none of it violates inventory controls. (Although I and others have seen instances where DC Exchange Company inventory of select high-demand intervals is actually less than what can be reasonably expected.) It appears to be that they use a relatively simple computer coding process, on the front and back ends of usage elections, to ensure that the rights of all involved - Un-enrolled Weeks Owners, Enrolled Weeks Owners, DC Trust Members, *and* MVW - are protected equally.

@davidvel, you've mentioned a few times that MVW uses a computer to pre-book Weeks intervals for its Destination Club. If I thought that's what they are doing I'd be as adamant as you are that they're in the wrong, especially as I seem to remember language in the original Weeks governing docs that prohibits it in any event. Why is it that you think they are?
I think the way they're ensuring the rights is the same as they do on the weeks side already, it's space available. There will be winners and losers as there were before the DC. Remember the 13 month reservation option hasn't always been in place so one who only owns a week and is now at a disadvantage may feel this is not fair.
 
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