Travel + Leisure Co. / Wyndham Buys Yes& Vacations & Spinnaker Resorts

[rickandcindy23]

As one of the most respected names in vacation ownership, Travel + Leisure Co. has a simple mission: to put the world on vacation. The company's 280+ resorts span a portfolio of brands, including Club Wyndham, WorldMark, Margaritaville Vacation Club, Sports Illustrated Resorts, Accor Vacation Club, and Eddie Bauer Adventure Club. And with its innovative points-based membership model, the company gives owners the flexibility to travel how they want, where they want, when they want.

So laughable. Seriously not a respected name in the timeshare industry, especially sales. They are the WORST for lies. Not a badge of honor.

 

[CO skier]

Yes, that's generally what they do - they offer converted weeks contracts for these types of owners and then place that inventory into the CWA trust for example - or one of the Prefere trusts - which provided the owner doesn't use their actual week (since they still can from what I've been told at least) - means that week becomes available to Wyndham points owner for reservations - at least in theory. The devil is always in the details.

It would be to Wyndham's financial advantage to provide access to Spinnaker resorts for Club Wyndham and WorldMark owners only through developer qualified points.

Shell Vacation Club locations are not part of Club Wyndham Access. I think the Spinnaker acquisition will play out more like the Shell Vacations acquisition did.

 

[paxsarah]

Is Prefer a different trust from the existing Shell point trusts or when you buy Prefer are you just buying a Shell points contract that is converted to FairShare trust? Other Wyndham owners are then able to access Shell properties via those converted contracts?

I would assume it's on the Club Wyndham side rather than the original Shell structure, but I'm not sure how the contracts are actually held. But Prefer owners have ARP access to the inventory held by the West or Hawaii trust (depending on which they own), then all Club Wyndham owners have access to that inside 10 months. That inventory presumably comes from either Shell owners who converted to Wyndham or contracts taken back by Wyndham through exits or defaults. So my sense is for some Shell resorts the actual availability for CW owners can still be somewhat limited.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It would be to Wyndham's financial advantage to provide access to Spinnaker resorts for Club Wyndham and WorldMark owners only through developer qualified points.

Shell Vacation Club locations are not part of Club Wyndham Access. I think the Spinnaker acquisition will play out more like the Shell Vacations acquisition did.

Unless you are an insider, we will not know how they will entice owners to convert. Shell stayed as Shell for us because we didn't attend a sales presentation to convert our Shell to Wyndham, and it worked as it always did, no change for owners. I noticed a definite difference in Shell-specific resorts' inventory in the two systems.

We no longer own Shell and good riddance. I still love WorldMark but Wyndham's IT changed the website to the same lousy thing Wyndham has, but it's much worse than Wyndham's. Wyndham's has seen many updates. Maybe WorldMark will work as it should. I am hoping so.

 

[CO skier]

Unless you are an insider, we will not know how they will entice owners to convert.

Doubtful even "Wyndham insiders" know how the cross-clubs access will work with the Spinnaker resorts, at this early stage. Wyndham Destinations will be busy enough for the next few years just bringing the Spinnaker resorts online and up to speed.

 

[dioxide45]

It isn't like Spinnaker is a top tier timeshare brand or system. I would actually put it below Club Wyndham resorts. Lump them in with Festiva and Exploria. There is a reason they are shutting down French Quarter. Mostly independent HOA/BOD and maintenance has been lacking for many resorts. Perhaps a couple of their properties on HHI are decent, but they are not anything I would go out of my way to go to. As far as I know, Spinnaker has no real internal trading program, no points, no nothing. A quick Google search may indicate a few resorts have the ability to book between them but nothing system wide. The resorts are affiliated with either II, RCI, or both.

Wyndham could make it easy. Offer conversions for deeded week owners to convert to FairShare. For free. Sure, not everyone would do it, but they may be able to quickly add a lot of weeks at these resorts to Club Wyndham. Any unsold inventory T+L acquires could get dropped into CWA. Rebrand the resorts at Club Wyndham and get rid of the Spinnaker name completely.

I know less about Soleil properties, are they all just deeded weeks to with no internal trading system?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Unless you are an insider, we will not know how they will entice owners to convert. Shell stayed as Shell for us because we didn't attend a sales presentation to convert our Shell to Wyndham, and it worked as it always did, no change for owners. I noticed a definite difference in Shell-specific resorts' inventory in the two systems.

We no longer own Shell and good riddance. I still love WorldMark but Wyndham's IT changed the website to the same lousy thing Wyndham has, but it's much worse than Wyndham's. Wyndham's has seen many updates. Maybe WorldMark will work as it should. I am hoping so.

FWIW if you have explicit feedback on the Worldmark website - I do know the PM for the Worldmark website also - and am happy to provide feedback for product enhancements and/or bugs as needed.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I would assume it's on the Club Wyndham side rather than the original Shell structure, but I'm not sure how the contracts are actually held. But Prefer owners have ARP access to the inventory held by the West or Prefer trust (depending on which they own), then all Club Wyndham owners have access to that inside 10 months. That inventory presumably comes from either Shell owners who converted to Wyndham or contracts taken back by Wyndham through exits or defaults. So my sense is for some Shell resorts the actual availability for CW owners can still be somewhat limited.

This is my understanding as well - I can see at least some of the Shell resorts in availability searches using my Club Wyndham ownership for example - though admittedly it's limited inventory - it's more like what I'd expect to see for an "Associate resort" for example.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It isn't like Spinnaker is a top tier timeshare brand or system. I would actually put it below Club Wyndham resorts. Lump them in with Festiva and Exploria. There is a reason they are shutting down French Quarter. Mostly independent HOA/BOD and maintenance has been lacking for many resorts. Perhaps a couple of their properties on HHI are decent, but they are not anything I would go out of my way to go to. As far as I know, Spinnaker has no real internal trading program, no points, no nothing. A quick Google search may indicate a few resorts have the ability to book between them but nothing system wide. The resorts are affiliated with either II, RCI, or both.

Wyndham could make it easy. Offer conversions for deeded week owners to convert to FairShare. For free. Sure, not everyone would do it, but they may be able to quickly add a lot of weeks at these resorts to Club Wyndham. Any unsold inventory T+L acquires could get dropped into CWA. Rebrand the resorts at Club Wyndham and get rid of the Spinnaker name completely.

I know less about Soleil properties, are they all just deeded weeks to with no internal trading system?

Hopefully we can get tidbits of guidance and more information in the ensuing weeks and months to get a better sense of what to expect moving forward for CW owners. I'd expect it to take months to years to fully play out though, at least based on what we've witnessed with past purchases such as SVC. Fingers crossed it goes faster this time around!

 

[jp10558]

Hopefully we can get tidbits of guidance and more information in the ensuing weeks and months to get a better sense of what to expect moving forward for CW owners. I'd expect it to take months to years to fully play out though, at least based on what we've witnessed with past purchases such as SVC. Fingers crossed it goes faster this time around!

And it all depends on what T&L wants to do really. I think personally HGVs methods have been a mess, and MAX is pretty weak integration for retail sales only. T&L already has the Worldmark / Wyndham divide, adding more with Club Pass would be the HGV play, yet it also seems like that didn't happen with Shell. I also have noticed that Wyndham has traded units between a few resorts so there's at least some availability through resale CW and Worldmark to some of the other's resorts.

As a general thought, I think combining as much as possible is better for owners and perspective owners, but I also know people didn't ask for this either. I imagine there has to be delinquent / developer owned (or could be) inventory on both sides, and using that to allow some cross booking would be better than the HGV mess, though of course offering a free conversion to Club Wyndham Select for owners at Spinnaker would seem to me to be the most owner favorable thing to do.

Of course, doing something good for the owners doesn't make T&L money. Though they also have gotten a lot of guff online (maybe only at TUG and a little at reddit) for the current resort closures, so making these bookable for Club Wyndham would probably help "replace" some of the lost resorts. I also agree that HHI is a desirable place to book / own.

My guess is check back in 2030 to see what happened.

 

[Arimaas]

And it all depends on what T&L wants to do really. I think personally HGVs methods have been a mess, and MAX is pretty weak integration for retail sales only. T&L already has the Worldmark / Wyndham divide, adding more with Club Pass would be the HGV play, yet it also seems like that didn't happen with Shell. I also have noticed that Wyndham has traded units between a few resorts so there's at least some availability through resale CW and Worldmark to some of the other's resorts.

As a general thought, I think combining as much as possible is better for owners and perspective owners, but I also know people didn't ask for this either. I imagine there has to be delinquent / developer owned (or could be) inventory on both sides, and using that to allow some cross booking would be better than the HGV mess, though of course offering a free conversion to Club Wyndham Select for owners at Spinnaker would seem to me to be the most owner favorable thing to do.

Of course, doing something good for the owners doesn't make T&L money. Though they also have gotten a lot of guff online (maybe only at TUG and a little at reddit) for the current resort closures, so making these bookable for Club Wyndham would probably help "replace" some of the lost resorts. I also agree that HHI is a desirable place to book / own.

My guess is check back in 2030 to see what happened.

I immediately thought of the HGVC mess when I was reading through the posts here. I got out of HGVC maybe 3 years ago, and that integration and being a resale owners was a big part of my plan of shifting my ownership to Wyndham. Hopefully they don't do anything resembling that.

 

[CO skier]

My guess is check back in 2030 to see what happened.

Yes. If the Vegas Line on Club Wyndham owner access to Spinnaker resorts Over/Under is 2029½, I will take the "Over" bet.

 

[CO skier]

Interestingly, current owners may get some great deals on converting to Wyndham points with a small purchase, much like they did on Kauai.

That "opportunity" ended long, long ago.

The Shell Vacations conversion to Club Wyndham may serve as an instructive template for expectations

 

[katty83]

I got this email this morning. I have no idea what that means for owners. I liked that Spinnaker didnt use points like a lot of other timeshares. So will we be going to the point system now? I dont even understand how all of that works. Hopefully we'll get more detailed information about everything.

Same

 

[amycurl]

While I have never stayed at their two HHI resorts, I have carefully considered them, as they have three bedrooms and I feel (at least from the outside) that they are as nice as some of the Marriotts on the island. I agree--I wonder if the closure of some of the legacy resorts was to free up cash flow to facilitate this purchase.

 

[bryjake]

I suspect a descent question to ask is which resort goes into which TNL brand. I can reasonably see at least one of the South Carolina going into Sport Illustrated (Golf related). I also think Maui would be a good fit for Margaritaville. I foresee a bit of madness aligning with all those different brands.

 

[jp10558]

I suspect a descent question to ask is which resort goes into which TNL brand. I can reasonably see at least one of the South Carolina going into Sport Illustrated (Golf related). I also think Maui would be a good fit for Margaritaville. I foresee a bit of madness aligning with all those different brands.

This assumes they want to subsume them, while they did do that with Shell - lately they've been adding brands that don't cross book, so maybe for some reason they want to keep Spinnaker separate. Does anyone happen to know if the Club Pass thing for Worldmark also works with Eddie Baur/Margaritaville etc?

 

[dioxide45]

This assumes they want to subsume them, while they did do that with Shell - lately they've been adding brands that don't cross book, so maybe for some reason they want to keep Spinnaker separate. Does anyone happen to know if the Club Pass thing for Worldmark also works with Eddie Baur/Margaritaville etc?

I believe ClubPass is only between Club Wyndham and Worldmark. Club Wyndham points already work to book most Margaritaville Vacation Club resorts. One can also use Club Wyndham points to book President Reserve. We know nothing yet about cross booking for Eddie Bauer or Sports Illustrated. I don't know if, how, or at what number of days out those brands can reserve into Club Wyndham resorts.

 

[jp10558]

I believe ClubPass is only between Club Wyndham and Worldmark. Club Wyndham points already work to book most Margaritaville Vacation Club resorts. One can also use Club Wyndham points to book President Reserve. We know nothing yet about cross booking for Eddie Bauer or Sports Illustrated. I don't know if, how, or at what number of days out those brands can reserve into Club Wyndham resorts.

Oh I always get that wrong - I thought Margaritaville was hard to book or not generally allowed.

 

[CO skier]

We know nothing yet about cross booking for Eddie Bauer

Cross-booking between EB Adventure Club and WorldMark begins at 11 month for up to 30-day reservations with no exchange fees. Right now, WorldMark owners appear to have access to all availability in EB Adventure Club; that may change as the EB Club grows its owner base.

I was able to book the exact dates needed through EB Club at Moab when the WorldMark inventory had been sold out for months.

 

[dioxide45]

Oh I always get that wrong - I thought Margaritaville was hard to book or not generally allowed.

It's generally allowed. I think it can be done at 5 months from checkin for Club Wyndham owners. Certain resorts are limited. Like Atlanta which I think can only be reserved by higher VIP levels. Even as resale Club Wyndham owners, we've reserved Desert Blue and Nashville and believe we can book the Margaritaville in the USVI and Puerto Rico.

Atlanta isn't much of a restriction as there are also regular Club Wyndham rooms there.

 

[chosshaul]

Seems kind of underwhelming. I can see why spinnaker sold themselves. Why would a younger person buy in when the Big 3 have way more offerings?

 

[TUGBrian]

well this is certainly the news of the week!

 

[jp10558]

Seems kind of underwhelming. I can see why spinnaker sold themselves. Why would a younger person buy in when the Big 3 have way more offerings?

Maybe if they were cheaper? Though in reality I bet it's the same as anywhere retail - because they were pressured or bamboozled in a sales presentation.

 

[UGA1981]

Dear Spinnaker Owners,

Forty-five years ago, our parents, Ken and Joan Taylor, began what would become Spinnaker Resorts with a simple belief: vacations are more than time away - they are moments when families reconnect, memories are made, and traditions begin. What started as their vision grew into a successful business, a place of meaningful vacation experiences for our owners, and a true extended family for the team members who helped us grow.

Through the years, we have experienced the inevitable ups and downs that come with building and sustaining a family business. Yet one thing has always remained constant; our commitment to hospitality and to the people who placed their trust in us. You trusted us with your vacations, your family time, and your memories, and that has meant more to us than words can fully express.

Because of that, we wanted to share this news with you personally and in our own words. After much thoughtful consideration, we have made the decision to enter into a definitive agreement with Travel + Leisure Co. to acquire Spinnaker Resorts and help guide the company into the future.

As one of the most respected names in vacation ownership, Travel + Leisure Co. has a simple mission: to put the world on vacation. The company's 280+ resorts span a portfolio of brands, including Club Wyndham, WorldMark, Margaritaville Vacation Club, Sports Illustrated Resorts, Accor Vacation Club, and Eddie Bauer Adventure Club. And with its innovative points-based membership model, the company gives owners the flexibility to travel how they want, where they want, when they want.

We believe Travel + Leisure Co.'s experience, resources, and commitment to exceptional vacations will continue to strengthen the owner experience and help carry Spinnaker Resorts forward with confidence.

With deep gratitude,


Carolyn Oliver Christine Taylor

Our family have been owners beginning with Fairfield Resorts in the late 1990s and have benefited greatly from our ownership and we have done well also as stockholders. Mrs Taylor, over the years I have become friends with with many of the Travel and Leisure family. It is a wonderful group of people and your company, your owners will be with a great company. It is an honor for your company to join Travel and Leisure.