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Transferring title to an LLC

Bill4728

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Just got a notice from my TS company that they will no longer allow anyone to transfer their TS into an LLC if the LLC is behind in any of their MFs.

It seems that a whole bunch of people have transferred their titles into LLC then just abandoned the TS leaving the TS company with no one to try and get their money (mfs) from.
 

DeniseM

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The "Viking Ship" is the latest scam from the "rescue" companies that get owners out of their contract for an upfront fee. Some on TUG have actually endorsed this method, but the attorneys who post here have stated that creating an LLC for this purpose is illegal.

I'm glad to see that the resorts are catching on! I hope the AG's will start prosecuting those responsible.
 

ronparise

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they shouldnt allow the transfer to any person or company until and unless the maintenance fees are paid up. So I dont see this "rule" as anything special, and it wont prevent the abuses that they are trying to stop
 

DeniseM

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they shouldnt allow the transfer to any person or company until and unless the maintenance fees are paid up. So I dont see this "rule" as anything special, and it wont prevent the abuses that they are trying to stop

if the LLC is behind in any of their MFs.

I interpret this differently - These LLC's are not paying ANY maintenance fees, because they intend to abandon the timeshares. So what that means is that as soon as an LLC is delinquent on any MF (including previously transferred deeds) the resort will no longer register new deeds in the LLC's name. It's definitely a step in the right direction.
 

rrlongwell

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they shouldnt allow the transfer to any person or company until and unless the maintenance fees are paid up. So I dont see this "rule" as anything special, and it wont prevent the abuses that they are trying to stop

It sounds logical. If maintance fees are not paid, I would assume the account would be frozen. Nothing in or nothing out until the maintance fees were paid. I would also assume this would be true of indivual accounts. Major exceptions would probably be estates liquidating timeshares. In that case, it would make sense to the TS company to permit sale contract by contract if fees were paid on the departing contract.
 

ronparise

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I interpret this differently - These LLC's are not paying ANY maintenance fees, because they intend to abandon the timeshares. So what that means is that as soon as an LLC is delinquent on any MF (including previously transferred deeds) the resort will no longer register new deeds in the LLC's name. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

Good point I didnt read it that way..but will it really make a difference? With the several purchases I made last year the resort wasn't involved until after the transfer of ownership was complete and the new deed recorded and its also noteworthy, I think that in most cases the ebay sellers (probably pccs) I purchased from were not really part of the deal...the deed went from the original owner, directly to me..

A rule like this may make things a little more difficult, but it still will be easy for the resort to get screwed as long as the big money is still there for the pccs to take
 

BocaBum99

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Good point I didnt read it that way..but will it really make a difference? With the several purchases I made last year the resort wasn't involved until after the transfer of ownership was complete and the new deed recorded and its also noteworthy, I think that in most cases the ebay sellers (probably pccs) I purchased from were not really part of the deal...the deed went from the original owner, directly to me..

A rule like this may make things a little more difficult, but it still will be easy for the resort to get screwed as long as the big money is still there for the pccs to take

It won't make any difference. It costs less than $100 to create an LLC. All they need to do is start a new LLC with a clean maintenance fee record and dump a bunch of timeshares into it until maintenance fees are due. Then, abandon it. Start a new one and repeat process.
 

DeniseM

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These companies have to put the deeds in the LLC's name - that's how they abandon them. If the deed was still in the original owner's name - it could not be "on the sinking ship" when it went down. So once these resorts find out who the culprits are, they can simply refuse to register any more deeds from them. It would be relatively easy to give deeds owned by LLC's a second look, since they'd stand out from the crowd, because they ARE LLC's.
 

DeniseM

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Where can you register an LLC for $100? Not in California!

Can't you look up an LLC and see who the principals are? Isn't it a matter of public record?
 
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PamMo

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I own at some resorts that SPECIFICALLY charge high fees ($1,500 and up) for any transfer of ownership to an LLC. They want MF's and the extra charge for transfering to an LLC. It seems the resorts have caught on to the game LLC's have been playing. I just think it's too bad that it goes to resort management and not the HOA, as other owners are the ones who are going to get whacked with higher MF's to make up for non-payment.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I own at some resorts that SPECIFICALLY charge high fees ($1,500 and up) for any transfer of ownership to an LLC. They want MF's and the extra charge for transfering to an LLC. It seems the resorts have caught on to the game LLC's have been playing. I just think it's too bad that it goes to resort management and not the HOA, as other owners are the ones who are going to get whacked with higher MF's to make up for non-payment.
Are you sure that it doesn't go to the HOA? The decision to impose such a fee is made by the HOA, not the resort manager, and the HOA is in the position to decide where that money goes, not the resort manager.
 

ronparise

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I remember the day when mortgage fraud was the order of the day. The bad guys would pay a straw man borrower for the use of their name and credit.to defraud banks and mortgage companies

The bad PCCs could do the same thing and never involve a LLC Heck, give me a timeshare and enough money to pay next years fees..Id take a hundred a month

Im here to say the bad guys are smarter than the POAs and quicker to adapt..If there is money to be had the POAs are no match
 

ronparise

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Where can you register an LLC for $100? Not in California!

Can't you look up an LLC and see who the principals are? Isn't it a matter of public record?

a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars, the point is its cheap.

and It dosent matter who the principals are...the money is good enough that they will take the risk and find a new principal for the next package to be sunk
 

BocaBum99

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Where can you register an LLC for $100? Not in California!

Can't you look up an LLC and see who the principals are? Isn't it a matter of public record?

Right here: MyCorporation.com $49 LLC. After all fees are paid. The total is $183 for California.

You can create an LLC in any state. I believe Nevada does not require that the officers be made public. It doesn't matter. There are a lot of people who can front as the officer of an LLC.
 
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Carolinian

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There was an article a while back in Timesharing Today about the pushback from several major timeshare management companies where they are telling members that if they go the PCC route, the HOA will file a lawsuit against both the member and the PCC for fraudulent conveyance. I suspect that it will only take a handful of lawsuits for members to understand that the consequences of dealing with a PCC can be very severe to the member. The HOA's need to take a few scalps to show that they are serious in dealing with this menace.
 

PamMo

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Are you sure that it doesn't go to the HOA? The decision to impose such a fee is made by the HOA, not the resort manager, and the HOA is in the position to decide where that money goes, not the resort manager.

Steve, one timeshare that I just sold was a Caribbean RTU, and the transfer fee was $335 to an individual. If the buyer was an LLC, the fee would have been $1,535. I know some RTU resorts in Cabo have two tiers of transfer fees as well. These resorts are still run by the developer. I think more resorts will follow this practice to try to avoid weeks getting into the hands of PCC's.

As for Timesharing Today reporting that HOA's will go after members who sell to PCCs, I don't believe the majority of owners who pay PCCs to take their timeshares have any intention of fraud. They are naive owners who fall for the story that the PCC has (or will find) a buyer. I didn't know what a PCC was until I joined TUG.
 
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BocaBum99

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There was an article a while back in Timesharing Today about the pushback from several major timeshare management companies where they are telling members that if they go the PCC route, the HOA will file a lawsuit against both the member and the PCC for fraudulent conveyance. I suspect that it will only take a handful of lawsuits for members to understand that the consequences of dealing with a PCC can be very severe to the member. The HOA's need to take a few scalps to show that they are serious in dealing with this menace.

This is a very bad idea. It won't stop anything and it will drain resources from the HOA. The best way to make things worse is to get attorneys involved. The problem won't go away and the lawyers still get paid by either the HOA or the owners.
 

BocaBum99

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I remember the day when mortgage fraud was the order of the day. The bad guys would pay a straw man borrower for the use of their name and credit.to defraud banks and mortgage companies

The bad PCCs could do the same thing and never involve a LLC Heck, give me a timeshare and enough money to pay next years fees..Id take a hundred a month

Im here to say the bad guys are smarter than the POAs and quicker to adapt..If there is money to be had the POAs are no match

Exactly. If the HOA wants to fight the PCCs, they should hire one.

This whole discussion is as usual assigning blame to the wrong party. The only problem the HOA needs to solve is to make their resort resales have greater than ZERO market value. It they can't meet that very low threshold, then should seek to terminate the timeshare plan.
 

ace2000

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I agree 100% with Boca on his thoughts on this thread.

And as far as the LLC costs go, I completely set up a LLC in Missouri for less than $200. I'm not sure where Denise is getting her figures from - perhaps attorney fees?? (which aren't necessary)

P.S. My LLC was not timeshare related. :)
 

BocaBum99

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I own at some resorts that SPECIFICALLY charge high fees ($1,500 and up) for any transfer of ownership to an LLC. They want MF's and the extra charge for transfering to an LLC. It seems the resorts have caught on to the game LLC's have been playing. I just think it's too bad that it goes to resort management and not the HOA, as other owners are the ones who are going to get whacked with higher MF's to make up for non-payment.

This would severely limit the PCCs.
 

PigsDad

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This would severely limit the PCCs.
Propably wouldn't limit them much. The PCCs would just start charging a higher fee and pass it on to the sucker consumer. There will always be desparate TS owners who will pay big $$$ to get rid of their timeshare.

Sad but true.

Kurt
 

Carolinian

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Propably wouldn't limit them much. The PCCs would just start charging a higher fee and pass it on to the sucker consumer. There will always be desparate TS owners who will pay big $$$ to get rid of their timeshare.

Sad but true.

Kurt

What is especially sad is the lies told by the PCC's to get people to part with good money that they do not have to in order to get rid of a timeshare. I have seen too many examples in deeds recorded on the OBX.

Like the weeks I have seen some of the PCC's deed right back to the HOA. Part of their spiel is that resorts will not take the weeks back, and they con $3K or so out of the victim on that basis, but obviously they know the resorts that do take deedbacks and do that themselves. Actually some of them should be prosecuted for the felony of false pretenses for this scam.

Or the prime summer weeks that bring $2-3K minimum even on the bargain basement of eBay, and more if sold on other venues. Yet they con their victims into paying them to take these weeks off their hands. I saw one widow taken for three prime summer weeks. She should have been receiving $6-9K but instead probably paid out ~$9K. The PCC obviously lied to her and told her the weeks were worthless. Again, they ought to be doing the perp walk for some felony time on this.

It is hardly just the HOA's that are being ripped off by these scam artist PCC's. It is the individual owner victims, too, in many cases.

Some State AG's have cranked down on PCC's. More need to do it, and not just with the civil fines used to date. These conmen need some active prison time.
 
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DeniseM

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This whole discussion is as usual assigning blame to the wrong party. The only problem the HOA needs to solve is to make their resort resales have greater than ZERO market value.

And while they are at it, please have the HOA's put the economy back on it's feet, cure cancer, and find the meaning of life. Oh, I'd like to win the lottery, too! :D
 

hypnotiq

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FWIW, to setup my LLC in WA State was $200 for everything, including filing it online.
 
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