Tourism in Tanzania, Covid edition

[DannyTS]

No mitigation measures. Why aren't the locals and the tourists dying in droves from Covid?

@Ken555

 

[DannyTS]

 

[Cornell]

Wait 2 weeks !

 

[DannyTS]

Wait 2 weeks !

LOL it has been like this since the beginning of the pandemic

 

[cman]

No mitigation measures. Why aren't the locals and the tourists dying in droves from Covid?

Because they suffer from the same thing that you do. It's called denialism. They've not reported ANY numbers since May. Like you, they're in denial.

Last week you used Belarus as an example, this week you had to stoop to Tanzania to prove your point. Ever think that having to use these extreme examples just proves that you don't have a point? Just sayin...

Tanzania has been widely criticized for its COVID-19 response, which has mainly involved widespread denialism.

In Tanzania election, COVID-19 denialism an 'excuse to clamp down' on dissent

Human rights and digital rights activists believe that COVID-19 denialism was used as an excuse to introduce additional repressive measures ahead of the Tanzanian election on Oct. 28.

www.devex.com

 

[DannyTS]

Because they suffer from the same thing that you do. It's called denialism. They've not reported ANY numbers since May. Like you, they're in denial.

Last week you used Belarus as an example, this week you had to stoop to Tanzania to prove your point. Ever think that having to use these extreme examples just proves that you don't have a point? Just sayin...

Tanzania has been widely criticized for its COVID-19 response, which has mainly involved widespread denialism.

In Tanzania election, COVID-19 denialism an 'excuse to clamp down' on dissent

Human rights and digital rights activists believe that COVID-19 denialism was used as an excuse to introduce additional repressive measures ahead of the Tanzanian election on Oct. 28.

www.devex.com

Dude, you are completely missing the story. If the virus had spread and if they were dying from Covid it would be obvious.. That would show somehow, people are not stupid. Tourists from Europe and other places would see it and report it. But there is nothing of that sort. You should explain that. No amount of media opinion concocted in DC can obstruct that and trying to make it a local political story will not work. You do not like Tanzania, you do not like Sweden and you do not like any example that goes against your narrative.

I am still waiting for an explanation why Sweden has been doing a lot better than the US with a fraction of the measures. Explain that.

But should I be surprised by your position? No. Months ago you called me delusional for pointing out that Sweden was doing a lot better than the US without the mitigation measures. It was obvious looking at their recent data and the trends but you denied it at the time and you deny it now. What does that make you?

 

[Snazzylass]

I must be old. What could explain it? I remember a time when a topic could be researched and one could gain a greater understanding.

CV19 defies logic. The narrative makes no sense. I don't understand how some countries are going about their business and they seem to be unaffected. Isn't this true of NZ?

We've all seen how serious CA's response has been, yet their numbers do not bear out any success for all their efforts. I assume the responses will be to blame those who contracted the virus. Some how they contracted it even with all the strict lockdowns in place. Why are the results not better?

 

[Cornell]

I must be old. What could explain it? I remember a time when a topic could be researched and one could gain a greater understanding.

CV19 defies logic. The narrative makes no sense. I don't understand how some countries are going about their business and they seem to be unaffected. Isn't this true of NZ?

We've all seen how serious CA's response has been, yet their numbers do not bear out any success for all their efforts. I assume the responses will be to blame those who contracted the virus. Some how they contracted it even with all the strict lockdowns in place. Why are the results not better?

It’s because LA isn’t locking down “hard enough “. That’s the current talking point.

 

[DannyTS]

It’s because LA isn’t locking down “hard enough “. That’s the current talking point.

What?!!! After telling us for months that California was the model to follow? How could that happen?

 

[Cornell]

@DannyTS The problem with California is that they haven't installed lids on every damn toilet.

"SF teachers are demanding the district install lids on every toilet, which would be closed during flushing to presumably prevent the spread of the virus through aerosols or droplets released, although none of the millions of cases worldwide has been connected to a toilet."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/...m)&utm_source=share-by-email&utm_medium=email

 

[DannyTS]

@DannyTS The problem with California is that they haven't installed lids on every damn toilet.

"SF teachers are demanding the district install lids on every toilet, which would be closed during flushing to presumably prevent the spread of the virus through aerosols or droplets released, although none of the millions of cases worldwide has been connected to a toilet."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Parents-want-California-s-teachers-vaccinated-15853920.php?utm_campaign=CMS Sharing Tools (Premium)&utm_source=share-by-email&utm_medium=email

I think they should import toilets from Tanzania.

 

[TravelAmore]

The Tanzanian government is NOT allowing research or data tracking of deaths or diagnoses of COVID-19. So as in other cases when governments do not allow data collection for disease processes with multiple organ involvement, HIV/AIDS, for another example, death certificates merely state a list of conditions as the cause of death. I have had a couple of health and health education projects in Tanzania over the past 10 years and arrived home from there in March 2020.

The Swedes are rethinking their strategy, again, given the onslaught of Winter. While things did not have to happen in the way they have in the U.S., it is important to note the strategies that seem to impact the spread of the virus are similar but implemented differently than those used to reduce but not halt the virus spread. In short, those countries successful in curtailing spread implemented more “draconian” strategies with enforcement teeth.

Swedish Government Rethinks COVID-19 Containment Strategy

While much of Europe locked down to stop the coronavirus from spreading, Sweden relied largely on voluntary social distancing measures. Now as infections rise, the government is reconsidering.

www.npr.org

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DrQ]

The way SOME want us to treat COVID-19

 

[DannyTS]

The Tanzanian government is NOT allowing research or data tracking of deaths or diagnoses of COVID-19. So as in other cases when governments do not allow data collection for disease processes with multiple organ involvement, HIV/AIDS, for another example, death certificates merely state a list of conditions as the cause of death. I have had a couple of health and health education projects in Tanzania over the past 10 years and arrived home from there in March 2020.

The Swedes are rethinking their strategy, again, given the onslaught of Winter. While things did not have to happen in the way they have in the U.S., it is important to note the strategies that seem to impact the spread of the virus are similar but implemented differently than those used to reduce but not halt the virus spread. In short, those countries successful in curtailing spread implemented more “draconian” strategies with enforcement teeth.

Swedish Government Rethinks COVID-19 Containment Strategy

While much of Europe locked down to stop the coronavirus from spreading, Sweden relied largely on voluntary social distancing measures. Now as infections rise, the government is reconsidering.

www.npr.org

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are missing the point. Where are the bags full of bodies piling up in Tanzania as we were told was going to happen here? How come tourism continues as before and nobody reports problems?
Do you know why they kicked out the CDC in Tanzania? Because back in April 2020, the president sent for testing samples from a papaya, a parrot and a goat. They all came back positive! Did you know that?

Whether you like it or not, Sweden has been doing a lot better than the US with few mitigation measures and with no lockdowns. California showed that lockdowns do not work and that the harm exceeds the benefits but they seem to believe the solution is more lockdowns. Whether Covid is worse than the flu or a lot worse than the flu it does not matter. What has been happening is bat crazy.

 

[Snazzylass]

Whether you like it or not, Sweden has been doing a lot better than the US with few mitigation measures and with no lockdowns. California showed that lockdowns do not work and that the harm exceeds the benefits but they seem to believe the solution is more lockdowns. Whether Covid is worse than the flu or a lot worse than the flu it does not matter. What has been happening is bat crazy.

The problems in LA are real. 313 deaths reported yesterday. Of course, I would be interested to know how that compares to any day for any reason in LA.

I do know from living in AZ and from a past career connection, that not having $$ for funeral expenses is a real thing. I live on the edge of the 'hood, and weave in and out of it seeking great food. People standing on corners with posters trying to raise $$ for funeral funds is a common sight.

Due to my past career connection, I once shook hands with every funeral director in IN at their annual trade show. In working with these customers, I learned that it is not uncommon to store bodies until the family can pay for the funeral. I fear this is happening in LA. My heart goes out to these people.

 

[Cornell]

"CDC says U.S. could get coronavirus under control in one to two months if everyone wears a mask"

CDC says U.S. could get coronavirus under control in one to two months if everyone wears a mask

"I think if we could get everybody to wear a mask right now I think in four, six, eight weeks we could bring this epidemic under control," said Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the CDC.

www.cnbc.com

 

[heathpack]

FYI I live in LA.

People are ignoring the lock downs. For example, I just got an invite to a meeting for a club I belong to. The meeting is tomorrow, indoors at a restaurant. Yes, restaurants are supposed to be closed. Obviously not. Multiple people I know are going to this meeting- pandemic raging- where they will sit together and have a meal and meeting for a few hours.

I’ve seen pictures posted to FB of large family gatherings at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Folks maskless, shoulder to shoulder, taking photos with friends and families not in their household.

Im a cyclist and the group rides are all still happening. These are outdoors so in theory safe. But everybody’s gotta take the buddy pic for FB, with 4 or 6 people or heck the whole group, maskless, standing shoulder to shoulder.

I was talking at work to a colleague the other day about how going to work throughout this pandemic has been something of a godsend because I can see and talk to people regularly who understand infectious disease and who have a rational response from an epidemiologic perspective. Otherwise I’d feel gaslighted because outside of work, so many people I know do whatever the heck they want these days.

Now that there’s such a huge background level of COVID positive people, the game has changed. The things you did to stay safe previously aren’t necessarily going to work. In all of COVID up until a few weeks ago, we only had two employee COVID cases. Since then it’s hard to count. My department at work is as of today closed due to one department member exposing the rest of us to COVID. We‘re all on quarantine for 10 days.

It was so hugely stressful to be working in this context. Dwindling resources (N95 masks, oxygen, personnel) with more demand than ever because so many other veterinary practices are limping along in the same way, with diminished capacity. It was starting to get to me so honestly I’m sad about our department’s shutdown for our patients and community but relieved for myself.

And then yesterday the State of California reclassified veterinarians into the top tier for vaccine priority. I am scheduled to get the Pfizer vaccine on Wed. I cannot tell you what a huge relief that is. Changes my outlook on everything.

 

[DannyTS]

FYI I live in LA.

People are ignoring the lock downs. For example, I just got an invite to a meeting for a club I belong to. The meeting is tomorrow, indoors at a restaurant. Yes, restaurants are supposed to be closed. Obviously not. Multiple people I know are going to this meeting- pandemic raging- where they will sit together and have a meal and meeting for a few hours.

I’ve seen pictures posted to FB of large family gatherings at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Folks maskless, shoulder to shoulder, taking photos with friends and families not in their household.

Im a cyclist and the group rides are all still happening. These are outdoors so in theory safe. But everybody’s gotta take the buddy pic for FB, with 4 or 6 people or heck the whole group, maskless, standing shoulder to shoulder.

I was talking at work to a colleague the other day about how going to work throughout this pandemic has been something of a godsend because I can see and talk to people regularly who understand infectious disease and who have a rational response from an epidemiologic perspective. Otherwise I’d feel gaslighted because outside of work, so many people I know do whatever the heck they want these days.

Now that there’s such a huge background level of COVID positive people, the game has changed. The things you did to stay safe previously aren’t necessarily going to work. In all of COVID up until a few weeks ago, we only had two employee COVID cases. Since then it’s hard to count. My department at work is as of today closed due to one department member exposing the rest of us to COVID. We‘re all on quarantine for 10 days.

It was so hugely stressful to be working in this context. Dwindling resources (N95 masks, oxygen, personnel) with more demand than ever because so many other veterinary practices are limping along in the same way, with diminished capacity. It was starting to get to me so honestly I’m sad about our department’s shutdown for our patients and community but relieved for myself.

And then yesterday the State of California reclassified veterinarians into the top tier for vaccine priority. I am scheduled to get the Pfizer vaccine on Wed. I cannot tell you what a huge relief that is. Changes my outlook on everything.

You will always have some people that do not obey the rules. The polls I have seen about masks for example, it is a minority of 10-15%. With these numbers, it is hard to explain why the virus is still spreading especially when the flu, we are told, is down 99%. Is flu down 99% not the best proof that in general people respect the social distancing rules? You can't have it both ways.

But let's say you are right and people are like that. Do you want everyone to sit home and wait to die alone of old age? Because you see where this is going, after Covid there will be something else. And what is your solution? Arresting people in their houses for seeing grandma ? Wait a second, it is happening already (UK and Canada) but not at a sufficient scale apparently to make a difference!

 

[heathpack]

Let me be clear- no matter what people say they do, flouting public health mandates is absolutely commonplace here in LA. Regular law abiding people I personally know do whatever the F they want. This is hard for me psychologically because I cannot unsee what I have seen. My opinion of the majority of people I know is forever changed and I’m trying to come to terms with what that’s going to be like for me when COVID is over.

But to answer your question: I think that this has been a failed governmental and public health response. As a veterinarian, every day I need to give people my recommendation as to what they should do with their pet. Often there’s a medically best option that we discuss but that may not be my recommendation if I talk to the folks and realize they can’t do the ideal thing for whatever reason- time, logistics, money, what the patient would go through, whatever. So then my job is to try to come up with a viable alternative or to paint a realistic picture as to how this is going to play out if there’s no good options. I don’t work in opposition to my clients who have limits to what they can do, I still work with them.

Our public health response here in California has mostly been medically sound in principle. But it’s been a failure in that people have been asked to do things they just can’t do, so then they don’t comply and it’s a failure. Give up their livelihood with no explanation as to how they’re supposed to live. Stop meaningfully educating their children as if that’s totally no biggie. Isolate the elderly indefinitely. Tell folks not to see their family, when some need their family to maintain their psychological well being.

There has also never been honest info about how long this all would be going on. Thankfully I knew from work it was likely to be 12-18 months. But John Q Public was led to believe something like 8 weeks. Restaurant owners weren’t told additional lockdowns would be likely, so they invested in outdoor dining and not in maintaining their takeout customers. Then there’s the hypocrisy of law makers breaking their own rules...

It does not surprise me that almost everyone has stopped listening to public health and our state and local governments. I don’t think the folks in charge have had easy decisions to make. But I also don’t think they’ve done a very good job of inspiring enough confidence in the public to be successful.

Personally I think we need a mask mandate. I think restaurants and bars should have been closed throughout, with financial support given to shuttered business. Kids should be back in school with a universal remote option. Kids sports should happen but pro sports shouldn’t. Hair salons and similar in person services should be open with severely limited capacity and government financial support for lost income. Retail should be open in limited capacity with time limits on shopping and curbside pick up encouraged. Small business retail should receive government financial support. Big national chains with an online presence should receive little financial support. Grocery stores should be open but big box stores should only be open with limited capacity and time limits on shopping.

Public parks should have been commandeered as a venue for meeting with family, and folks should have been advised as to how to go about doing this- ie don’t do it if you can get through 12-18 mo without it, if you need to- small family groups, short time frames (share a masked conversation or a cup of tea not a meal), stay apart.

Ditto for mechanisms of meeting up with elderly relatives in group living facilities. Outdoor visiting. Try to designate one person in the family who can isolate as the visitor. Keep the visits as short as possible.

Leisure travel should have been encouraged but not via public transportation. Road trips which would have the additional advantage of keeping travel regional and somewhat confining virus spread. Public outdoor facilities in hotels like pools- open with limited capacity. Restaurants closed except for takeout.

All outdoor socially distant activities or facilities that lend themselves social distancing should have been encouraged and developed further. Town sponsored walking buddy program say. Keep beaches and parks open. Etc. Ensure people have access to outdoor spaces and ideas as to how to use those spaces. Especially in So Cal where pretty much everything can be done outdoors.

Also- telling people from the get go that the idea was to hold COVID at bay until vaccines could be widely available. So that people wrapped their heads around this from the beginning. But even so, that COVID would spread in the community and people would die, the idea was to minimize this to the extent possible.

Basically:
1. Better mitigation of the financial effects on people
2. More forthcoming info about what to expect
3. Different prioritization of needs- kids development/education, elderly isolation, everyone’s social/psychological well being

 

[PrairieGirl]

I don't understand how some countries are going about their business and they seem to be unaffected. Isn't this true of NZ?

I am not part of this debate, nor do I want to be. However, I DO know the answer to your question, right from someone who was returning to NZ after working in Canada for 6 months.

NZ has the distinct advantage of being an island nation, there are only two ways in, air and sea and the majority is by air. He told us that he would be met at the airport by government officials, escorted to a quarantine facility - which was actually one of the hotels near the airport (they ranged from 3 star to 5 star and he hoped to get one he would never normally afford!). There he would stay for his 14 day quarantine (monitored, but perhaps "guarded" is a better description?).

For Citizens returning home to NZ for more than 90 days this was all at the government's expense. Less than 90 days and you foot the bill (approx $3,500).

For them, this strategy has worked. Residents are free to move about. I have no statistics on their international tourism industry, but I'll bet it has taken a big hit. So perhaps they sacrificed (or supported?) one sector of their economy so that the rest of the nation was able to function.

 

[DannyTS]

Let me be clear- no matter what people say they do, flouting public health mandates is absolutely commonplace here in LA. Regular law abiding people I personally know do whatever the F they want. This is hard for me psychologically because I cannot unsee what I have seen. My opinion of the majority of people I know is forever changed and I’m trying to come to terms with what that’s going to be like for me when COVID is over.

But to answer your question: I think that this has been a failed governmental and public health response. As a veterinarian, every day I need to give people my recommendation as to what they should do with their pet. Often there’s a medically best option that we discuss but that may not be my recommendation if I talk to the folks and realize they can’t do the ideal thing for whatever reason- time, logistics, money, what the patient would go through, whatever. So then my job is to try to come up with a viable alternative or to paint a realistic picture as to how this is going to play out if there’s no good options. I don’t work in opposition to my clients who have limits to what they can do, I still work with them.

Our public health response here in California has mostly been medically sound in principle. But it’s been a failure in that people have been asked to do things they just can’t do, so then they don’t comply and it’s a failure. Give up their livelihood with no explanation as to how they’re supposed to live. Stop meaningfully educating their children as if that’s totally no biggie. Isolate the elderly indefinitely. Tell folks not to see their family, when some need their family to maintain their psychological well being.

There has also never been honest info about how long this all would be going on. Thankfully I knew from work it was likely to be 12-18 months. But John Q Public was led to believe something like 8 weeks. Restaurant owners weren’t told additional lockdowns would be likely, so they invested in outdoor dining and not in maintaining their takeout customers. Then there’s the hypocrisy of law makers breaking their own rules...

It does not surprise me that almost everyone has stopped listening to public health and our state and local governments. I don’t think the folks in charge have had easy decisions to make. But I also don’t think they’ve done a very good job of inspiring enough confidence in the public to be successful.

Personally I think we need a mask mandate. I think restaurants and bars should have been closed throughout, with financial support given to shuttered business. Kids should be back in school with a universal remote option. Kids sports should happen but pro sports shouldn’t. Hair salons and similar in person services should be open with severely limited capacity and government financial support for lost income. Retail should be open in limited capacity with time limits on shopping and curbside pick up encouraged. Small business retail should receive government financial support. Big national chains with an online presence should receive little financial support. Grocery stores should be open but big box stores should only be open with limited capacity and time limits on shopping.

Public parks should have been commandeered as a venue for meeting with family, and folks should have been advised as to how to go about doing this- ie don’t do it if you can get through 12-18 mo without it, if you need to- small family groups, short time frames (share a masked conversation or a cup of tea not a meal), stay apart.

Ditto for mechanisms of meeting up with elderly relatives in group living facilities. Outdoor visiting. Try to designate one person in the family who can isolate as the visitor. Keep the visits as short as possible.

Leisure travel should have been encouraged but not via public transportation. Road trips which would have the additional advantage of keeping travel regional and somewhat confining virus spread. Public outdoor facilities in hotels like pools- open with limited capacity. Restaurants closed except for takeout.

All outdoor socially distant activities or facilities that lend themselves social distancing should have been encouraged and developed further. Town sponsored walking buddy program say. Keep beaches and parks open. Etc. Ensure people have access to outdoor spaces and ideas as to how to use those spaces. Especially in So Cal where pretty much everything can be done outdoors.

Also- telling people from the get go that the idea was to hold COVID at bay until vaccines could be widely available. So that people wrapped their heads around this from the beginning. But even so, that COVID would spread in the community and people would die, the idea was to minimize this to the extent possible.

Basically:
1. Better mitigation of the financial effects on people
2. More forthcoming info about what to expect
3. Different prioritization of needs- kids development/education, elderly isolation, everyone’s social/psychological well being

I agree with most of what you said and I would like to add my 2 cents.

There is a difference between what we should do ideally and what can be done realistically. I hate the examples that we should have done like New Zealand, SK or other countries. The Western world is too interconnected socially and economically and we were already on the brink of a collapse back in spring. I do believe that the world as we know it was in imminent danger if we were going to prolong the lockdown any longer. With all the health care implications because you also need money and a whole chain of production to provide care. We can bash people all we want but you cannot have public policy without taking into account how the public acts. I think the compliance was very good at the beginning but many felt that they were lied in terms of length, severity and how this was going to work. If you knew this was going to be for 18 months, so did the medical managers. There was never an approach of what was going to be bearable in the long run. There is one part in your comment I do not agree with. At the beginning there could have not been a policy of surviving until the vaccine was going to rescue us, 9 months ago there was no guarantee that the vaccine was going to be successful. As a matter of fact, the media and the medical leaders told us that continuously until almost the day the vaccine was extremely advanced. Because a vaccine was not in the cards at the beginning it stroke me as even more dubious to not have a longer term strategy that would work for more people in the absence of a vaccine.

Not only that small business owners were lied to and many have lost everything (which has also probably shed a few years of their lives if they were on the edge of a heart attack), they have also seen the measures enriching others. "We are in this together" is more a lullaby than a fact. I have not seen the biggest internet companies, the biggest beneficiaries of the lockdowns saying: tax us temporarily few hundred billions until this is over and give them to these poor people who are losing everything. Governments gave aid that equates to a small bag of air while you are still sinking and those who got it were told they only had to save the oxygen for a little bit. The aid has been appropriate at times for a cleaning person at a Marriott hotel but the franchisee of the restaurant has lost everything.

Another honest discussion we have not seen is about money. Trillions of dollars have been printed and there is no public debate about who is going to pay for this and how this is going to affect lives (and health!) in the medium and long term. I keep on saying, if printing money was the ultimate solution, Zimbabwe would be on the top of the world. Empires have declined in history because of corruption and foolish spending and, for the sake of our kids and grandkids I am really fearful of the alternative.

 

[DannyTS]

I am not part of this debate, nor do I want to be. However, I DO know the answer to your question, right from someone who was returning to NZ after working in Canada for 6 months.

NZ has the distinct advantage of being an island nation, there are only two ways in, air and sea and the majority is by air. He told us that he would be met at the airport by government officials, escorted to a quarantine facility - which was actually one of the hotels near the airport (they ranged from 3 star to 5 star and he hoped to get one he would never normally afford!). There he would stay for his 14 day quarantine (monitored, but perhaps "guarded" is a better description?).

For Citizens returning home to NZ for more than 90 days this was all at the government's expense. Less than 90 days and you foot the bill (approx $3,500).

For them, this strategy has worked. Residents are free to move about. I have no statistics on their international tourism industry, but I'll bet it has taken a big hit. So perhaps they sacrificed (or supported?) one sector of their economy so that the rest of the nation was able to function.

Love and pray for NZ but if nobody travels to or from there, if all manufacturing and all activities in New Zealand stop for 10 years nobody would actually notice outside their territorial waters. This is a luxury other countries do not have.

 

[heathpack]

Well @DannyTS I’ve mostly thought throughout this whole debate that you and I were on opposite sides but we‘re not really very far off.

The biggest question that neither of us can answer because we’re not in public office is: could we as a society have managed to support more people financially who needed it? I think we could have but I don’t have access to the info that would let me know for sure. I definitely know that I was sent a stimulus check in the first round and I shouldn’t have been- my income is too high. And beyond that I didn’t need one. My income is completely unaffected by COVID. So Im sure there was waste in that.

I also agree- calling on some of the newly minted billionaires to help the little guy as part of their patriotic duty should have happened. The rich got richer and no one questioned their moral obligation to help.

There’s also been a snowball effect. Schools are closed so my friend who owns a business providing lunches for private schools was crushed. Sure his business is allowed to be open but there’s no school so no business. We lost one of our doctors because she has four young kids under 10 yrs of age. Her kids weren't being educated because seriously? A seven year old learning remotely? That’s not happening. She had to move somewhere her kids could go to school. Great for her that she had the resources to do that. But many did not. We have lost significant staff over the need to be home supervising kids who are not in school. So aside from kids‘ development and well being, schools being closed has a huge impact. And so on.

I think at the beginning of COVID and through much of the summer people were compliant. By that time, we knew a vaccine was realistically coming. So I think the initial response was appropriate while we got out shit together and a little more info. But then around Sept, it seems to me like we should’ve know a timeline for the vaccines becoming available and being implemented. I was personally guessing around a year at that point. Then that should have been articulated to people, along with a viable plan for the next 12 months. Rather than no one discussing a big picture plan and taking everything week by week.

Sometimes I find myself irrationally annoyed with aspects of this. For example, outdoor dining this summer and fall just made me angry with the restaurants. Doesn’t make sense because it was allowed. But I saw in that a wrong priority over kids getting back to school and the elderly staying isolated. I should be mad at the government but I’m mad at the restaurants and the people who felt dining out was somehow more important than other bigger societal priorities. Dining out is completely expendable compared to educating kids. Yet you’d never have guessed that seeing what Sept looked like in SoCal.

A lot of this should have been thought through well before any pandemic struck. If it wasn’t, then we needed to get a big picture plan going ASAP. But that never happened and the approach was piecemeal. This was always going to be a very painful thing. But an ineffective national response made it way worse.

 

[cman]

Do you know why they kicked out the CDC in Tanzania? Because back in April 2020,

Tanzania did not kick out the CDC. I have no idea where you got that from.

 

[DannyTS]

Tanzania did not kick out the CDC. I have no idea where you got that from.

Of course they did