Total newb, need advice on Lagunamar...

[jayp]

Karen,

Thanks for the response and I really appreciate the feedback. This answer has been pretty consistent across the board when these types of threads have popped up, which unfortunately does speak volumes. So far I have only seen or read a response from one member, in this thread (Jarta), that has actually purchased directly from the developer and seems to be pleased with his/her transaction(s).

If you or anyone else has the time to answer some of the questions I had in my original post I would really appreciate it. Specifically whether or not it actually pays to be able to take advantage of the internal exchange options within starwood itself and whether that exchange has any distinct advantages that would justify paying the higher retail price.

Although price is a factor, it is not what we plan on solely making our final decision on. I do not have a problem paying for a service that would turn out to be useful and make the overall experience more enjoyable. However if the consensus is that it absolutely makes no difference whether we exchange directly through starwood or II then we will rescind and buy resale. I would just be interested in hearing anyones personal experiences.

Also just for the record we did buy at WLR because we do love the resort and would plan on using that place as sort of a "home" location while traveling to other SVO properties such as harborside or hawaii for some change of scenery. Although appreciation of the properties value would be a plus we did not purchase this timeshare with the intent of reselling later on down the road with the hopes of making a profit. That being said we also did not expect the property to be worth 30-40% of what we paid for it 3 days after the transaction either. (sorry for being so long winded)

 

[jayp]

It sounds as though you understand the variables involved. The one you don't control is time, and that's running out quickly. Rescind immediately, save your money, and buy later.

The sales staff uses the staroption to StarPoints conversion as a sales benefit, but it's almost always a bad use of your timeshare. Just convert the maintenance fee (per use, which in your case is two years) and figure out how much those points are costing you. Remember that they sell direct for about 3.5 cents (and sometimes have them for less). And, then add in your initial expense for the ownership.

Check completed auctions on eBay for an idea of what they're selling for these days. Of course that's just one indicator on market price. But, this board is consistent with the opinion that lagunamar is not worth much for a variety of reasons, including that it's a voluntary resort (those staroptions will not pass to a buyer should you sell it), cancun is overbuilt and readily available, etc.

For comparison, you can buy an every year 2-bed Kierland unit with 148,100 staroptions for not much more than you spent on Lagunamar. And, since Kierland includes options upon resale, it appears to be holding some value. This is enough for a 2-bed at any Starwood resort. Your maintenance might be more each year as compared to an eoy unit, though. This is just one example of what you can buy if you want the flexibility of options with a deed that should retain some value over the years. Note that all resale purchases (unless you requalify, but don't get confused by that just yet) do not include the ability to convert to starpoints. Besides, if you want StarPoints, just get an American Express for it (that's how lots of us get our StarPoints and it works out well).

Good luck!

Thank you very much Ken

 

[susan6103]

Attended owners update WLR

We just attended an owners update this morning. not a newbie to star wood. We own WKORVN and SDO already.
we were offers a GOLD 2bdrm every year for 22'900 and 100k bonus pts. AND retro our resale kaanapali into SVO. We really would like the flexibility of using star points for air travel etc.
Would appreciate some feedback here?

 

[DeniseM]

We just attended an owners update this morning. not a newbie to star wood. We own WKORVN and SDO already.
we were offers a GOLD 2bdrm every year for 22'900 and 100k bonus pts. AND retro our resale kaanapali into SVO. We really would like the flexibility of using star points for air travel etc.
Would appreciate some feedback here?

Most people feel that the maintenance fees at WKORV are to high too convert it to Starpoints. You can buy the Starpoints from Starwood for less than the cost of your maintenance fees.

Also, since the MF are the same on a Gold week, but you get fewer Starpoints and Staroptions, it's not the best deal.

You can buy WLR on the resale market for pennies on the dollar.

Personally, I would not take this deal.

 

[jarta]

DeniseM is right. The retro part is advantageous, but you are already paying high MF at WKORV compared to the benefit converting that week brings. You do not describe your SDO week. If it is a Platinum, retro it instead of WKORV. Then, dump WKROV. IMO, the MF are too high to keep any WKORV week in a 5 Star Elite mix of resorts or ever convert the expensive WKORV StarOptions to expensive Starpoints.

And, as described, the deal is not otherwise as financially efficient a deal as you could get. You are missing StarOptions at the new resort compared to the MF you will pay on a Gold week.

You are also missing the 4-6 options to buy 80,000 Starpoints for $1,550 (each option) in addition to the 100K which you were offered for the new purchase. Those low cost Starpoints take some of the sting out of the purchase price. And, they add to the Starpoints needed to make the conversion to lots of air miles.

Instead of a Gold week, look for an EOY week in Platinum season that will itself support another retro when upgraded to a EY (like an OS at Lagunamar).

If you are looking to eventually get to 5 Star Elite (and that's the only real reason to buy any week directly from Starwood), you can and should do better. ... eom

 

[susan6103]

Thanks

Wow, thanks Denise aand Jarta!!!
some great advice. we ended up passing on the 'deal'. eventually it may make sesnse for us to pursue elite status but perhaps just not yet.

 

[KACTravels]

DeniseM is right. ... eom

this was nice to see.

 

[susan6103]

nice to see.

this was nice to see.

Agree kelly. i knew that I needed to heed the advice seriously when both Denise and Jarta are in agreement ...lol

 

[jarta]

susan, ... "i knew that I needed to heed the advice seriously when both Denise and Jarta are in agreement"

The response to your post is not the first time Denise and I have agreed. Denise and I split company when the benefits of being a Starwood Elite owner come into play.

Denise has posted consistently that she doesn't believe the benefits of any Elite membership level are worth the increased developer acquisition costs. Therefore, Denise would never recommend anyone ever buy directly from Starwood. She would always recommend a purchase of the most effective II trader with the lowest MF. I agree with that strategy for most TUG posters. Very good trades can be had on II as long as you are diligent and not too picky about where and when you vacation (sometimes even better trades are possible using II, the Starwood preference and the TUG Sightings forum than using StarOptions; II allows trades on a 2-br for 1-br basis).

However, I think well thought out developer purchasing and Starwood Elite membership is OK for some timeshare owners - depending on how you travel and use the StarOptions and Starpoints to recoup some of the developer acquisition costs each year - and I insist that other Elite benefits are actually useful, but to a much lesser extent. For me, I like the cumulative effect of the Elite benefits.

So, from time to time DeniseM and I will agree (and continue to disagree) about Starwood. Most of our agreement will come on the value of II trading as the alternative to developer purchasing being best for most Starwood timeshare owners. Most of the disagreement will come as a reply to her dissing of Starwood (although Denise is entitled to express her opinion and I am just as entitled to express to mine).

But, when we agree on something, you must do it! lol! ... eom

 

[siesta]

jarta

Denise doesnt always recommend an II trader. Very often she recmmends a mandatory resort due to peoples travel styles, such as being tied to school schedule or travelling during the primest weeks or holiday breaks, or to difficult to trade into resorts like WSJ, or HRA during prime time (even though this year we got a HRA and Westin Hawaii Platinum banking)

 

[jarta]

siesta, ... Your statement: "Very often she recommends a mandatory resort ..."

My statement: "Therefore, Denise would never recommend anyone ever buy directly from Starwood. She would always recommend a purchase of the most effective II trader with the lowest MF."

I stand by my statement. No direct purchases from Starwood. In the context of buying direct Denise would always recommend a cheap II trader. For mandatory resale v. voluntary resale, to Denise, it's a matter of pecking order.

DeniseM will approve of, rather than recommend, a mandatory purchase rather than a voluntary one. The recommendation when buying resale is always to minimize cost, buy voluntary and trade in II. To Denise it's always about cost. And, something relevant to this thread, Denise posts out that a mandatory resale carries StarOptions, but no ability to convert or Elite level credit. (In general, I agree with Denise about minimizing outlay for most people.)

The most prevalent example is Denise's stated pecking order is the preference of SDO over WKV. SDO is highly recommended for its trading power. WKV is only OK if the poster has already made up his/her mind to buy at a mandatory resort. The price differential is always noted by Denise along with the lower SDO MF.

Denise neither owns at nor recommends that anyone buy anywhere (like WSJ or Harborside or WKORV) where there are high MF. Again, I agree with that for most TUG posters.

In fact, earlier in this thread I recommended that a WKORV week be dumped because the MF are too high to keep such a week in an Elite level SVN portfolio of weeks. And, one of the reasons I picked up and retroed a cheap WMH resale is to dump my high MF Harborside 3-br and still stay 5 Star Elite. Harborside is great but it involves an air fare to get there.

I feel I have not overbought timeshares. I'm just rejiggering. But, IMO, overbuying and getting stuck with MFs you cannot afford is the worst mistake that can be made in timeshare ownership.

Denise, however, can speak for herself - if she cares to - and set out her priorities. ... eom

 

[J&JFamily]

I think most of us would rather hear Denise's opinion from her, not you.

 

[jarta]

J&J, ... Never fear! Denise's frequently posted opinions about the value of II trading, purchasing from any developer, purchasing Starwood voluntary over Starwood mandatory and the value of Starwood Elite status will be repeated soon enough.

PS Maybe, if you didn't post sarcastic replies, you would not get any response at all. Think about it. ... eom

 

[Ken555]

I believe Denise still owns at WKORV. But, I agree with Jarta's recent posts, though perhaps not in the style in which it was written.

I like the best of both options, trading my WKV Platinum via SVN and my others via II.

 

[DeniseM]

1. I own a 2 Bdm. ocean view unit at WKORV - it's the first timeshare we bought.

2. I don't see much value in 3 or 4 Star Elite Status - unless you can go all the way to 5 Star Elite, the perks are not worth the large amount of money you have to spend on developer purchases.

3. Reaching 5 Star Elite is not feasible for most people - money-wise, time-wise, or management-wise.

4. I see no reason to buy from the developer, unless it's part of a plan to reach 5 Star Elite.

5. For someone whose goal is to always visit WSJ or Harborside - I usually recommend buying there - the exact week or season they want - resale.

6. For someone with some flexibility, who wants to exchange into other Starwood resorts, I usually recommend SDO (II trader) - resale.

YMMV