Too good to be true ??? [Wyndham Canterbury]

[brigian]

Works out to $3.38 per 1000. What am I missing?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/164-000-Wyn...50690349918?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2315d8435e

 

[Rent_Share]

Works out to $3.38 per 1000. What am I missing?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/164-000-Wyn...50690349918?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2315d8435e

The serious bidders won't show up till the last 10 seconds

The MF looks low - probably missing the mandatory RCI component

Since it's in active developer sales Wyndham has been known to undercharge during the first few years and when they are no longer on the hook for the maintenance fees raise them for the owners, after all they do control the individual HOA's

 

[ausman]

The MF's are attractive.

Usually indicative of a resort in Sales and held artificially low by the Developer. I think this one may still be in Sales.

If you ever want to stay there the points will be insufficient, will need 300K for a 1BR and 400K for a 2 BR.

The points level equate to the resorts in the system in the early 2000's , for resorts since then the points required have undergone considerable inflation.

Best to look at the resorts you are interested in and their points level to see if this one fits. It could fit for that alone or with another purchase to cover the higher pointed resorts.

 

[brigian]

Yeah , I'm really not concerned about home resort as I will never book 13 months out, more interested in low fees but would hate to get any surprises in the near future.

 

[ronparise]

Canterbury is among the lowest mf/points in the Wyndham system

I understand the argument that a resort still being sold by the developer will have a subsidized mf to help the sales force, but there are other arguments that the mf wont change over time anymore than anyplace else

There are two reasons I feel this way...

1) this is an urban resort, the units are smaller and there are no grounds to maintain, no pool, no washers and dryers in the units, no bath tubs and only the presidential units have full kitchens. All this argues for a lower mf than other more "amenity rich" resorts

2) although mf is lower here on a per point basis than other Wyndham resorts...because of the high number of points required to reserve a unit, the mf //week is actually quite high. A two bedroom deluxe is 400000 points a week.....or $1352mf. Compare that to a 2 bedroom converted fixed week that I own where I pay $832 annual mf. Remember that although we might think of mf in terms of dollars per point, thats not the way mf is actually assessed. Mf is first figured on a per unit basis, or per square foot basis.

I would argue that Canterbury mf/week is already quite high and probably wont go up as much in the future as my converted fixed week.

Of course you will pay significantly more for these points than I paid for my $8/1000 points week...

dont miss the other ongoing canterbury auction for 308000 points

 

[ausman]

Just trying to help as we all do, Ron's arguments to me, would apply after MF's reach their natural level and Developer sales are done.

The MF's are, given FF/WYN history, probably artificially low.

How low is the question. Outside of the Atlantic City resort experience, I don't think I've seen more than a 40% increase from one year to the next.

That doesn't necessary mean don't buy there. Just means be aware things could change, or not. Looking back I should have bought at Tahoe resort more than once, their points level have remained low for many years now, but the overall experience has been MF's rise once out of Developer sales.

 

[rrlongwell]

... Outside of the Atlantic City resort experience, I don't think I've seen more than a 40% increase from one year to the next ...

Not sure what you mean by the Atlantic city resort experience. I am at Skyline Tower now (the Wyndham Atlantic City resort). The sales staff brought to my attention today that they are using both Commission and non-commission staff for the showing of units at this resort to prospective buyers. Would that mean that the sales cost (hense developler subsidies for maintance fees) for this resort would be lower since non-commission staff are used for the showing of the units to prospective buyers.

 

[ronparise]

commissions paid to the sales people are only a part of the equation. There are lots of other costs associated with selling an overpriced item to an unsuspecting public. Like the free gifts and free weekends if you attend a presentation.

When Wyndham takes a property into their WAAM program, they figure on 50% to 60% of the sales price to go to marketing and commissions. If we assume that the salesman gets something less than 10%, whats left is still a really big number

So I dont think moving away from a commissioned based model will save a whole lot

 

[vacationhopeful]

...The sales staff brought to my attention today that they are using both Commission and non-commission staff for the showing of units at this resort to prospective buyers. Would that mean that the sales cost (hense developler subsidies for maintance fees) for this resort would be lower since non-commission staff are used for the showing of the units to prospective buyers.

No. Non comissioned sales staff includes the Hangtag staff on the 1st floor, several staff members on the 5th floor who check you in and "gift" you, processors who prepare paperwork and staff who might fetch you drinks & food. NO nonlicensed (NJ real estate licensed) persons can SHOW real estate in NJ unless they personally OWN the property in their name or are direct (noncomissioned) FT employees of the owner (highly unlikely due to who owns WVR, but likely in a large apartment complex).

Robert, it is all in the words the Wyndham sales staff uses; I am sure Club Wyndham Access is NOT considered DEEDED real estate ... so perhaps, that sales staff is non-license but I bet they are COMMISSIONED vacation club persons. Hence, still a SALES WEASAL.

 

[rrlongwell]

No. Non comissioned sales staff includes the Hangtag staff on the 1st floor, several staff members on the 5th floor who check you in and "gift" you, processors who prepare paperwork and staff who might fetch you drinks & food. NO nonlicensed (NJ real estate licensed) persons can SHOW real estate in NJ unless they personally OWN the property in their name or are direct (noncomissioned) FT employees of the owner (highly unlikely due to who owns WVR, but likely in a large apartment complex).

Robert, it is all in the words the Wyndham sales staff uses; I am sure Club Wyndham Access is NOT considered DEEDED real estate ... so perhaps, that sales staff is non-license but I bet they are COMMISSIONED vacation club persons. Hence, still a SALES WEASAL.

Thanks. The sales area I am referring to is not were you get the rist bands across from the sign in desk. It is a seperate sales area. I do not know if the non-commission staff that show the timeshares are licenced or not. He did not say. He just said non-commission. Licenced Real Estate Agents can be commission, non-commission, independent contractors, or employees.

UPDATE:

Talked with the sales people on the 6th floor. They explained that the unlicenced sales staff doing business from the 1st floor are employees of the Resort and they sell the units directly on the Resort's behalf and are not associated with the Sales Staff on the 6th Floor.

 

[Rent_Share]

2) although mf is lower here on a per point basis than other Wyndham resorts...because of the high number of points required to reserve a unit, the mf //week is actually quite high. A two bedroom deluxe is 400000 points a week.....or $1352mf. Compare that to a 2 bedroom converted fixed week that I own where I pay $832 annual mf. Remember that although we might think of mf in terms of dollars per point, thats not the way mf is actually assessed. Mf is first figured on a per unit basis, or per square foot basis.

I would argue that Canterbury mf/week is already quite high and probably wont go up as much in the future as my converted fixed week.

So as long as ARP at Canteberry is not a requirement, buying points here that would get you a two bedroom at existing properties that can be booked at 10 months, Canteberry might be a good purchase option

 

[ronparise]

So as long as ARP at Canteberry is not a requirement, buying points here that would get you a two bedroom at existing properties that can be booked at 10 months, Canteberry might be a good purchase option

My point exactly...400000 points or $1450 mf will get you a week in a 2 bedroom at Canterbury or 4 weeks in the Fall at Fairfield Glade . or 4 weeks (in a one bedroom) at a South Florida beach.. (about $365/week)

Canterbury would be my first choice for my next purchase, except that I want ARP at a different, specific resort

 

[Rent_Share]

My point exactly...400000 points or $1450 mf will get you a week in a 2 bedroom at Canterbury or 4 weeks in the Fall at Fairfield Glade . or 4 weeks (in a one bedroom) at a South Florida beach.. (about $365/week)

+ Housekeeping ??

I am assuming no RCI Fee ??

 

[ronparise]

+ Housekeeping ??

I am assuming no RCI Fee ??

Wyndham awards 1 housekeeping credit per 1000 points ...so 400 credits

a one bedroom for a week will use 63 credits, a 2 bedroom 77...so no problem there

The two resorts I mentioned as examples are within the Wyndham system, so rci is not involved

You forgot to mention transaction fees, but since you get one per 77000 points, thats not an issue either

 

[Rent_Share]

That's why I asked as a question

 

[Beefnot]

One recent Canterbury auction I narrowly lost out on was this one.


Alas, I've abandoned boarding the Wyndham train for my first timeshare purchase(s), but Canterbury is still a very attractive option below a certain acquisition cost.