• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 29 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG started 29 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Check out our happy birthday post here: Happy Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Come check it out for a chance to win a Free TUG membership (or renewal) just for helping out!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $19,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $19 Million dollars
  • Our 2022 Timeshare Survey is now complete and the full results as well as our expert and witty analysis of each question is available here: Here We hope you enjoy reading the results as much as we did!
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! 50,000+ subscribers! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

To rescind or not to rescind . . .

TeamDean

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
211
Location
Chicago
Hi-

We are down in STJ - weather is beautiful. It is our 4th trip here and we know that we will keep coming back. We are here on an EP now.

We decided to buy a 3 BR at BV EOY. We have done a ton of research, however, there were some things that we missed that we found on this board - thanks!

Our TS salesperson failed to mention that Bay Vista is a voluntary property. We thought/assumed all of WSJ was mandatory. So that changes some things.

However, we have young kids and we liked the idea of floating b/c of school, so Bay Vista was our only option. We also want a prime week (1-12). We could do EY or EOY. If we did EY, we would probably trade out EOY for a different property. We checked all of the usual suspects: RedWeek, Ebay, Islandia, Cruz Bay, etc. No resales in Bay Vista and probably won't be for a while. And, since it is voluntary, it doesn't really matter.

We like the newer VG villas, and could probably live with the older ones with the accordian walls. However, there are very few resales available in the winter months, and the prices don't seem that much better than what SVO was offering.

So, we are looking for some thoughts and guidance and if this is one of those situations where it is okay to buy from the developer. Or, is there an option that we are not thinking of?

We are on day 3 of our 10 day rescind option, so shooting from the hip is okay :)

Thanks in advance!
Beth and Michael
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
56,580
Reaction score
7,624
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra.
Welcome to TUG!

Historically, Starwood properties that are voluntary do not hold their resale value well. If I was you, I would rescind, rent for a couple years, and pick up a resale in a year or two. With all the Starwood resorts, we have seen resales before the property ever opened, and I bet that with a little patience, you can find a much better resale deal that will pay for a couple of years of renting many times over...
 
Last edited:

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
15,505
Reaction score
1,403
Points
699
Location
McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
Resorts Owned
Grandview At Las Vegas

[triennial - points]
Rescinda-Sinda-Sinda.

All timeshares are used -- i.e., used-used used -- by the time you show up & check in, so paying full freight for a "new" timeshare that is no such thing is a non-starter.

Buy resale.

Save thousands.

For more semi-inconvenient timeshare truths, click here.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

Transit

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
0
Points
396
Location
Coral Springs, FL
Trading out from the unit you have at this resort EOY is not a great option.When your at the top everything is downhill and there won't be much of equal value for you to trade to. I don't think the mandatory /voluntary issue matters that much at this resort as the Staroptions are low to begin with ,making SVN trades not so favorable. Most owners at WSJ use or rent thier week. I'd say recind.................Unless it's an absolute must have now.
 

TeamDean

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
211
Location
Chicago
Thanks all. Regarding the StarOptions, during our presentation, that told us that this was a problem in the past for the WSJ. Apparently they have just adjusted the WSJ SO so that they are at parity with other resorts.

So, for our 3BR, we would now get 196,900 SO instead of the 148,100 SO that were given in the past.

Does that change anything? :shrug:

Michael and Beth
 

Transit

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
0
Points
396
Location
Coral Springs, FL
Thanks all. Regarding the StarOptions, during our presentation, that told us that this was a problem in the past for the WSJ. Apparently they have just adjusted the WSJ SO so that they are at parity with other resorts.

So, for our 3BR, we would now get 196,900 SO instead of the 148,100 SO that were given in the past.

Does that change anything? :shrug:

Michael and Beth

Wow......if thats a fact it changes alot of things.Thats big news. Starwood hasn't updated the Staroptions chart on mystarcentral it still shows 148100 for that float period. This would make SVN exchanges more equitable. The only thing that it doesn't change is that if you wait for a resale you will save alot of money.:shrug:
 
Last edited:

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,521
Reaction score
2,004
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Somebody should write to Jim Johnson at SVO Sales and ask if there was a SO change at WSJ BV phase (not me...).

If you have more money than you need - then you should buy - move on and and enjoy (and send me some extra that may be laying around...) - otherwise consider rescinding and doing more research - unlikely WSJ BV units that you are looking to buy will show up on the resale market any time soon. (and that is coming from someone who coined RRR).

Increasing the SO value at BV lowers the value of VG - just does - sadly.
 

LisaRex

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
317
Points
518
Location
'burbs of Cincinnati, OH
Resorts Owned
Used to own: WKORV-N; SVV - Bella
So, for our 3BR, we would now get 196,900 SO instead of the 148,100 SO that were given in the past.

Get that in WRITING. The chart on on MyStarCentral (the website for SVO owners) says 148,100.

Buying a voluntary resort from the developer doesn't matter unless you plan to sell it. In 15 or 20 years, who knows what the SVN will look like? So that wouldn't even enter the equation for me, because I'd never buy a timeshare if I wasn't certain that it was at a location I'd be happy traveling to for many years. (That's why you need to look very carefully at the 3 bdrm villa to make sure that much room makes sense in 10 years or so when the kids are gone.)

You obviously know that you can save thousands of dollars buying resale at the older side. So the big question is whether the premium you'd pay to buy from Starwood is worth the ability to trade within SVN. Browse the properties that are in the network now and imagine if you'd ever be tempted to give up your 3 bdrm villa at St. Johns in order to travel to those other locations, being well aware of the fact that once you step outside of your home resort, you queue up with every other SVO owner who'd like to trade into another property.

If you could be flexible with your travel plans, you could do quite a bit with those 196.9k StarOptions. However, the biggest risk is that the resort/villa/week you want to trade into is simply not available. You want a 2 bdrm in Kauai and end up with a studio in Maui. That's the roll of the dice when you do trades. So if you're eyeing Harborside or Kierland in the winter or Maui in the summer, you'd best not count on it or you risk being disappointed. However, if you're willing to travel off season you have a much better chance of snagging successful trades. I realize with children that's not always possible.

While the additional StarOptions do sweeten the pot, I think what would lend me to buy resale vs. the developer is the knowledge that WSJ is currently the most in-demand property. You'd undoubtedly have no trouble doing a direct exchange with another SVO owner. Why would this be better than doing an SVN trade? Because by doing a direct exchange, you get the benefits of the other owner's home resort status. In other words, you'd be able to secure the exact resort, week, and villa you'd like. And with a great villa like a 3 bdrm, you be able to command the best view as well.

The biggest drawback with that route is because WSJ doesn't have lock-outs, it's an all-or nothing proposition. Doing a direct exchange with another owner only makes sense if you want to travel to other high end resorts. If you envision yourself staying one week in Orlando, one week at Mission Hills and one week at Port St. Lucie, then being in SVN probably makes the most sense. It's a very expensive way to travel to those places, IMO, but folks tend to write off that initial big hurt and focus only on the annual MFs. (In your case, a 3 bdrm is going for what? $100k? )

So my advice is to browse through the SVN properties along with the StarOptions chart, and figure out what other properties you'd really like to trade into. If they are the higher end, then I'd buy resale and direct trade. If it's multiple weeks at a combination of places, then I'd lean towards buying from the developer.
 
Last edited:

pointsjunkie

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
1
Points
398
Location
goodyear AZ soon
Thanks all. Regarding the StarOptions, during our presentation, that told us that this was a problem in the past for the WSJ. Apparently they have just adjusted the WSJ SO so that they are at parity with other resorts.

So, for our 3BR, we would now get 196,900 SO instead of the 148,100 SO that were given in the past.

Does that change anything? :shrug:

Michael and Beth

will the older section be adjusted to the new staroption values or only the new section?

i have bought from the developer and resale. how many starpoints are you getting for the purchase?

i have traded my harborside the first year to go to 4 starwood resorts so we were able to get many vacations out of our 1 week. with proper planning and understanding how the system works you can work it to your benefit.
 

Transit

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
0
Points
396
Location
Coral Springs, FL
=DavidnRobin;481420
Increasing the SO value at BV lowers the value of VG - just does - sadly.

DNR, Why do you belive this? At resale BV will have no SVN value.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
28,429
Reaction score
6,673
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Platinum Founder's. RCI, Shell, and WorldMark pts. Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge (many), ;Val Chatelle (7); Hono Koa (3); SBP lots SBP lots of them, SDO a few; Grand Palms (selling). WKORV-OF (2).
Increasing the SO value at BV lowers the value of VG - just does - sadly.

This looks like some sort of strange code! :rofl: I am trying to learn about the Starwood system, but some of the abbreviations are more than a little confusing. :)

I love Kierland Villas and Mission Hills, but the maintenance fees are so HIGH, that I am not interested in owning at those resorts.

My goal is to trade into some of the Starwood resorts, especially Hawaii, St. John, and Harborside (though I can get to Harborside with current weeks we own). I am thinking of Desert Oasis or Vistana Villages as a way to accomplish my goals.

By the way, to the original poster here, please rescind because there are so many options for resale out there, and with mandatory staroptions at many of them, there is no need to buy from the developer. I personally love this system and cannot wet to get my feet wet in it!

But Rick has slowed me down a bit with purchases lately. ;)
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
56,580
Reaction score
7,624
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra.
Increasing the SO value at BV lowers the value of VG - just does - sadly.

This looks like some sort of strange code! :rofl: I am trying to learn about the Starwood system, but some of the abbreviations are more than a little confusing. :)

Cindy - there is a "secret code," file in our Owner Resources sticky. :D
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,521
Reaction score
2,004
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Yes - the reason why I wrote the Starwood Acronym list - I spend moretime here than I should - so not having to repeatedly spell out things helps because I am a slow typer.

To the OP (sarcasm aside) - if this is the TS of your dreams and works perfectly for you and your family (and $ is not a major issue) then if you want this TS now - then you will need to buy it from SVO - that was my point. Otherwise RRR.
On the upside, paying $100K+ only increases teh value of the WSJ VGs.

I stated that I think that raising the SO level at WSJ BV (and not WSJ VG) lowers the value of the VG units (even with BV being a V resort - although that helps) because of the disparity that exists already for WSJ VG units compared to resorts outside of WSJ - and therefore internally increasing BV SO value without increasing VG value cannot be a benefit as a direct 3Bd or a 2Bd comparison within a season. When you get down to it - it comes down to value/SO.
 

pointsjunkie

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
1
Points
398
Location
goodyear AZ soon
good news!!! all the 3 & 2 br in both sections are going to be adjusted starting 2009.

3 br 196900 2 br 148100 plat
125300 95700
104100 81000

just called elite services and the salesman was telling the truth.

the 1 br and studio are staying the same.:cheer:
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,521
Reaction score
2,004
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
good news!!! all the 3 & 2 br in both sections are going to be adjusted starting 2009.

3 br 196900 2 br 148100 plat
125300 95700
104100 81000

just called elite services and the salesman was telling the truth.
Are you saying that our WSJ VG 2Bd TH in the Gold+ season (lowest) is going to have their SOs increased from 67.1K to 81K? And 1 Bd and studios are going to stay the same?

That is extremely interesting - that has many implications on a few levels. If true. I say this because I am biased because I just do not believe anything that comes from SVO until I see it in writing. We just received a WSJ update in the mail that made no mention of this.

This is really going to impact people trying to exchange into WSJ. The owners of 2Bd and 3Bd units get a bump in their value, but studio and 1Bd owners get left behind - seems unfair.

and your observation of 'Elite' status is right on the mark...
 

pointsjunkie

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
1
Points
398
Location
goodyear AZ soon
call starwood elite services and ask them. the reason they are only bumping up the 2 & 3 br is because that is only available in the new section and they want to make it equitable for all 2 & 3 br's.
 

TeamDean

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
211
Location
Chicago
That is consistent with what TS sales told us. We also looked at a 3BR at VG and it was $85k EY/$47 EOY with 196,600 SO.

So, we are still challenged by the float issue. I could see locking in a week at the 3BR VG and exchanging, but the resale prices don't seem to be that great of a deal either. Am I missing something? Or is the name of the game just being patient? I saw that DnR (I think) had found the listing of sale prices for properties. Should we be looking there as a benchmark for what we should pay?

And thanks for the suggestion to be forward looking in terms of our space needs. We do FULLY anticipate that our kids will be out of the house and self-supporting in 15 years:whoopie:

Beth
 

rocky

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
310
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Oakland, CA
We do FULLY anticipate that our kids will be out of the house and self-supporting in 15 years


Be careful. My brother was 33 when he finally got pushed out and my sister is 29. I think she helps my parents pay for the DishNetwork though...... :hysterical: :bawl:
 

pointsjunkie

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
1
Points
398
Location
goodyear AZ soon
my kids 25,23,&19 and they still love to vacation with us. i let them each bring a friend and they only have to pay for their airfare, we pay the rest. it is great for everyone. i have my family away with us, our kids are always busy, and i hope we will continue to do this for many more years.
 

skim118

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
313
Reaction score
1
Points
378
Location
SF Bay area
there goes our dream

good news!!! all the 3 & 2 br in both sections are going to be adjusted starting 2009.

3 br 196900 2 br 148100 plat
125300 95700
104100 81000

well it's good news maybe for owners that have large number Staroptions(requalified at that to allow combining).

When we bought WKORV in Feb 2002, we were heavily marketed brochures of the Pyramid water-slide in Harborside & the 3-bed rm in WSJ as potential exchanges.

True the chance of ever trading into 3-bed rm with a pool in WSJ is very small as we found out later; but some Tuggers have received such exchanges & we thought we might get a lucky break in the future; now for us it feels like WKORV unit has been further devalued.

I thought the total number of Staroptions are fixed as a system; Does this open a can of worms in that in the future they could devalue WMH(for example) in the future since it is not that popular ??
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,521
Reaction score
2,004
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
well it's good news maybe for owners that have large number Staroptions(requalified at that to allow combining).

When we bought WKORV in Feb 2002, we were heavily marketed brochures of the Pyramid water-slide in Harborside & the 3-bed rm in WSJ as potential exchanges.

True the chance of ever trading into 3-bed rm with a pool in WSJ is very small as we found out later; but some Tuggers have received such exchanges & we thought we might get a lucky break in the future; now for us it feels like WKORV unit has been further devalued.

I thought the total number of Staroptions are fixed as a system; Does this open a can of worms in that in the future they could devalue WMH(for example) in the future since it is not that popular ??

SOs are not fixed - it states in the OM that they can be changed.
SOs are undervalued at WSJ - so the comparison to WKORV is iffy
 

skim118

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
313
Reaction score
1
Points
378
Location
SF Bay area
SOs are not fixed - it states in the OM that they can be changed.
SOs are undervalued at WSJ - so the comparison to WKORV is iffy

Well I agree SO's for WSJ are undervalued.

One can also make an argument that giving the same 148,1000 Staroptions to WMH and WPORV seems way too unfair; Does this action open up for more SO's for WPORV in the future ?

Clearly now more than ever it is prudent to buy in a SVN property where you want to travel. We have never used SVN exchanges(used or rented our WKORV unit) and it looks like we never will.

We love Westin Kierland and since we travel in summer we have not bought in it yet, since it is such an easy II exchange for now.
 

grgs

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
103
Points
423
Location
Oceanside, CA
Resorts Owned
WKV, SDO, WLR, So Cal Beach Club
One can also make an argument that giving the same 148,1000 Staroptions to WMH and WPORV seems way too unfair; Does this action open up for more SO's for WPORV in the future?

I'm not sure I agree with this. I believe demand for WMH (and Kierland) at peak times (Spring) may rival the average WPORV week. Because the demand at desert resorts is so seasonal, it makes sense for them to have the 3 seasons with differing StarOptions I believe peak season being accorded the the same value as Hawaii resorts is fair. With the increasing costs of travel, the demand for drive to resorts may actually go up.

Glorian
 
Top