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To Buy Or Not

bongo

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This is a great site...mahalo for the tips! I am an extreme newbie. I am considering buying a TS direct to be able to deposit my week in exchange for MR points. Is this a good move? I've learned to look into buyer point incentives, use the MR credit card when buying, and more. I live on Oahu and am considering an EOY 2-bedroom lock off on a neighboring island. I may use it on occasion, but for the most part I'd like to travel on Marriott hotel/air packages. I have a family of three, and I am looking for long-term cost savings while being able to travel to locations I might not otherwise be able to afford (Europe, for example). The MF are a concern and I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to buy into another property (perhaps Las Vegas) that might have similar exchange week-to-point values with a lower MF. Thanks for your feedback! :)
 

sernow

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No, it's not worth it. Buying to exchange for points, especially a resort in Hawaii with high MF's, is not worth it
 

dioxide45

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The best option will be to buy the cheapest location with the lowest MF that offers MR points every year. Hawaii is not a good option.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Actually, if you really want those points, you and a spouse can spend $1,250 and purchase 100,000 points directly from Marriott every year, and you won't have to bother purchasing a timeshare or worry about any maintenance fees.
 

cp73

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Dont buy direct. The premium you pay for the use of the points is not worth it. To get the value out of the points you have to plan in advance, do trips of at least a week with a flight package, and fly first or business class. Then maybe you could save some money if this is how you normally travel. But its still tough to get your return back on that premium with the points.

Buy resale and if you really want some points follow TheTimeTravelers advice. Try that and see how much you love the points.
 
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dioxide45

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Don't do it. You can't even get FF miles easily.
Well the miles are easy to get. Trying to book those FF miles for a flight it where the trouble lies.
 

csalter2

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It's All About Options

Hello,

I have own at Marriott's Ko Olina property. I did buy from the developer. I know many of the tuggers on this site are against developers fees because you pay so much more. However, it all depends on what you want and only your individual situation can make the difference.

I have traded my Ko Olina property for points a couple of times and have used my points. I was able to stay in the middle of Paris' Champs E'Lysees where there are not any timeshare resorts that I know of. I stayed at Marriott's in Nagoya, Japan and at Tokyo in its upscale Ginza district. There are no timeshares there. I had my wife use points to stay at the Marriott Marquis over this Labor Day weekend. I know that there is a Manhattan Club somewhere but the Marquis is in the heart too. I did all of this using Points. I get points by trading my timeshare every other year and I use my Marriott's Reward credit card. I have a Premier Card that I pay all of my bills on every month and then pay it off each month so I don't pay any finance fees. The points add up fast. In addition, Marriott gives you free bonus nights at its hotels on your anniversary and other times. In addition, Marriott offers great package deals while using points you can get great deals and if you have any frequent flier programs you belong to you are really going to get great deals.

I suggest you weigh your decisions on your lifestyle:cheer: and not on anyone else's. I have taken full advantage of the rewards program and have not regretted it. I have already made that extra money I paid in developers fees back and not spent an extra dime to do it and I still have the benefit and plan to continue to do so.
 

m61376

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While personally I don't think buying from the developer, unless at early pre-construction pricing and if there are large point incentives, makes sense, I can understand that some people, such as the 2 posters above, have made great use of their trading for points and are strong advocates of it. However, since the OP is looking for a unit to almost exclusively trade in for points, I think dioxide45's advice to buy elsewhere where MF's are lower, purchase price is lower and that offers the option to trade for points every year rather than EOY would be the OP's best option if he feels purchasing to be able to get more points than he could annually purchase from Marriott makes sense for his travel plans.
 

davidvel

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Hello,

I get points by trading my timeshare every other year. . .

. . .

I have already made that extra money I paid in developers fees back and not spent an extra dime to do it and I still have the benefit and plan to continue to do so.
These threads about benefits of direct purchase for points benefits are always vague, often touting only the great vacations, air+hotel packeages etc. My questions for you, to help me evaluate this comparison are:
1. How much did you pay for your week, and when?
2. How many incentive points did you get?
3. What are your annual maintenance fees (about $1500?)
4. How many points do you get in exchange for the week and the $104 trade in fee?
 

csalter2

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These threads about benefits of direct purchase for points benefits are always vague, often touting only the great vacations, air+hotel packeages etc. My questions for you, to help me evaluate this comparison are:
1. How much did you pay for your week, and when?
2. How many incentive points did you get?
3. What are your annual maintenance fees (about $1500?)
4. How many points do you get in exchange for the week and the $104 trade in fee?
I paid 25K cash (no interest to pay) in 2003 for a 2bdrm lock off. No closing costs.

I received 250,000 points for two years because the property/building was not going to be ready for me for a couple of years. I did not have to pay any maintenance fees either during that time. They started out at just over $1000 but now it's almost $1500.

I get 100,000 points for the exchange.

You take this and add to the equation that my wife travels for a living and stays at Marriott's over 100 days out of the year using the premier card where we get a minimum 5 points per dollar along with her frequent flier miles where she is platinum with Continental. Our vacations are very, very nice. The rewards program is great. You have to look at your situation and take advantage of it. When we went to Paris the first time, we used only Marriott Points from the incentives and went first class. Check out the price of those tickets on Expedia or Orbitz. You will see what I mean about getting my money back plus some. I already have my first class tickets for the two of us and my son to Florida for next summer. The rewards program pays over and over for us.

Most importantly, I like when I go to my property at Ko Olina. The rooms are bigger than many of the other Marriott properties like Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert. I love being in Oahu where I have access to both a city and the tropics. I would not suggest anyone to buy a property that they don't plan to visit a lot. I try to use mine every other year, but sometimes we make other plans.

I look at it that with that one week in Paris and Japan using those points and flying 1st class with our hotels included. I made my money back if you were to say you bought my timeshare at the bargain basement price of $5000. I have seen what they are reselling for and it varies so I went to the lowest.

I stand behind what I said earlier. It all depends on what you want and if you are willing to take the time to plan. Planning vacations and getting the maximum out of what you have is the key. I will not be buying any other Marriott's because they are expensive and I am a Gold Elite Diamon Resorts member. I have the best of both worlds as far as flexibility.

I hope that takes the vagueness out of it for you. There were a couple of other incentives but I can't seem to remember them but they were little things.
 

Latravel

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Based on what you wrote about your future vacation plans, I would buy directly from Marriott. A lot of people here will not spend the extra money for this option and instead tell you to purchase the points directly from Marriott. They don't tell you that it will take you double the time to earn enough points for a vacation if you purchase the points. The amount of incentive points you receive when you purchase is enough for an amazing vacation immediately. The worth of this vacation pays for the difference in price of resale vs developer immediately. It was a no brainer to my family but that's because we were willing to spend more upfront and we wanted the flexibility to travel to places where there are no timeshares.

Given what I just wrote, I would not buy a direct purchase in Hawaii. As the other posters above advised you, the cost of the MF really is too high to justify trading your unit for points. Bottom line, if you decide that trading in your unit for points fits your current and future travel plans, I would find a timeshare unit that costs less and has lower maintenance fees.
 

davidvel

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I paid 25K cash (no interest to pay) in 2003 for a 2bdrm lock off. No closing costs.

I received 250,000 points for two years because the property/building was not going to be ready for me for a couple of years. I did not have to pay any maintenance fees either during that time. They started out at just over $1000 but now it's almost $1500.

I get 100,000 points for the exchange.

. . .

I made my money back if you were to say you bought my timeshare at the bargain basement price of $5000. I have seen what they are reselling for and it varies so I went to the lowest.
The best example on TUG of redemption values are around .01 per point. Regardless of all the hypothetical examples of the "cost" of european, business class trips, etc., Marriott rewards points have the same redemption power wherever you acquire them. (Not technically, because TS trade-in points cannot be used for TS.)

Everyone knows a couple (non-marriott owners) can buy 100K MRP for $1250(.125ea) per year. Yours cost $1500+104=1600 (.160ea) per year.

You got 250K in incentive points, so 200K of them were worth $2500--what one could have bought them for during the two years you waited for the privilege to pay your maintenace fees--plus you had an extra 50K points that you are ahead.

So as long as the differerence between the direct purchase cost and resale cost is worth 50K points, you broke even, which is impossible.

Once you started paying MF, you were paying $350/year more than a non-owner/resale buyer for the same points.. .after a year the non-buyer would have more than made up the "lost" 50K difference.

The next years you would simply be out the $350 per year for the exact same points.
 

csalter2

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The best example on TUG of redemption values are around .01 per point. Regardless of all the hypothetical examples of the "cost" of european, business class trips, etc., Marriott rewards points have the same redemption power wherever you acquire them. (Not technically, because TS trade-in points cannot be used for TS.)

Everyone knows a couple (non-marriott owners) can buy 100K MRP for $1250(.125ea) per year. Yours cost $1500+104=1600 (.160ea) per year.

You got 250K in incentive points, so 200K of them were worth $2500--what one could have bought them for during the two years you waited for the privilege to pay your maintenace fees--plus you had an extra 50K points that you are ahead.

So as long as the differerence between the direct purchase cost and resale cost is worth 50K points, you broke even, which is impossible.

Once you started paying MF, you were paying $350/year more than a non-owner/resale buyer for the same points.. .after a year the non-buyer would have more than made up the "lost" 50K difference.

The next years you would simply be out the $350 per year for the exact same points.

Well, I just looked at Redweek and even on TUG at resales and I underestimated the resale value on the market for Ko Olina. A resale 2Bdrm lockout still goes for $20,000+ there depending on its location and week. Yes, you can buy points but once someone buys resale then don't they have to pay maintenance fees too plus buy the points.

In any case, like I said. I went first class and I enjoy my resort. If I feel good, then that's all that matters. I got two great vacations and plan on going on many, many more. :banana:
 

m61376

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csalter2- The OP has to consider whether it is worth buying Ko'Olina direct NOW; keep in mind that, while your purchase may have made sense 5 years ago at pre-construction pricing, it may not make sense today.

Most of the point experts, such as Brian, etc., maintain that buying early on makes sense but several years into development it is a more questionable value.
 

csalter2

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csalter2- The OP has to consider whether it is worth buying Ko'Olina direct NOW; keep in mind that, while your purchase may have made sense 5 years ago at pre-construction pricing, it may not make sense today.

Most of the point experts, such as Brian, etc., maintain that buying early on makes sense but several years into development it is a more questionable value.

I guess you could say that but I am enjoying the product now year after year. I am not waiting until 10 or 15 years later when the prices go down. If I was struggling financially, then naturally I would probably reconsider the purchase. Forunately, that is not the case. Unless at resale maintenance fees are significantly less, then I am fine with the time share I have. I am not quite 50 and plan to enjoy my timeshare for many years and my children and grandchildren will enjoy it with me and when I am gone. That is what I am banking on. That everyone will have fun. If that's the case, then it will be more than worth the money I paid.
 

applegirl

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Actually, if you really want those points, you and a spouse can spend $1,250 and purchase 100,000 points directly from Marriott every year, and you won't have to bother purchasing a timeshare or worry about any maintenance fees.

This is right. And the premium cost for initial purpose is not made up in the privilege of trading in for MRP. That only benefits Marriott!

But into timeshares if you want to travel the world in comfort and space. Otherwise, you might be best to stick to renting T/S and hotels.

Janna
 

bongo

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Thank You!

Thank you all for your feedback...it's been highly educational. Thank goodness I found this site, just a few days ago in fact. Starting another thread on another question I have...Aloha!
 

m61376

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I guess you could say that but I am enjoying the product now year after year. I am not waiting until 10 or 15 years later when the prices go down. If I was struggling financially, then naturally I would probably reconsider the purchase. Forunately, that is not the case. Unless at resale maintenance fees are significantly less, then I am fine with the time share I have. I am not quite 50 and plan to enjoy my timeshare for many years and my children and grandchildren will enjoy it with me and when I am gone. That is what I am banking on. That everyone will have fun. If that's the case, then it will be more than worth the money I paid.
I think you missed my point: people who buy early on at pre-construction prices and with lots of points being offered as an incentive up front are getting more value for their money and the developer versus resale price differential is less of an issue (at initial pre-construction there are no resales to consider). However, once the resort has been in sales for several years, prices have escalated significantly. Those who bought early on can sell at or close to their original purchase price 5 years or so later, but those who first buy now need to at least consider that, as soon as they close, they would lose close to 40% (and in some cases even more) or their purchase price should they desire to sell.

We, too, bought at an age close to yours, and I agree that I intend to hold onto it and hope that children and hopefully grandchildren will enjoy it with us, but since we wanted to buy in Aruba several years into development, it did not make sense for us at least to pay the inflated developer's prices. Like Hawaii, Aruba's units are expensive. If you really want to trade in your unit for points, you can buy cheaper units that will allow you to trade for the same number of points, with lower annual MF's.
 
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