Timeshare Traveler Episode 172... Hilton Grand Vacations buys BlueGreen

[Clifbell]

I am excited to be an HGVMax Timeshare Owner. I became a HGVMax owner when Hilton Grand Vacations Purchased Diamond International. I upgraded because I wanted to stay at Many of the Diamond Resorts. I just recently stayed at Three Properties (Point at Poipu, Ka'anapali Beach Club, and Lake Tahoe). I have stayed at 8 or so formerly Diamond Resorts in the last year and I have enjoyed the new locations.

In this Video, I will discuss the outline of the deal and what this means for HGVMax owners. I also show a picture of the BlueGreen locations in the US so you can visualize the new locations. I feel that HGVMax is gaining in value because there are more options. I also am finding that Hilton is committed to upgrading many of the locations.. When I was at the Point at Poipu the upgrade to one of the buildings had already started. Buying into HGVMax means that you are part of growing and upgrading timeshare network.

Timeshare Traveler Episode 172... Hilton Grand Vacations buys BlueGreen

Map of all my timeshare reviews

 

[HuskerATL]

I guess that you need to add the comment on the devalue for HGVC Legacy also.

 

[singlemalt_18]

I am excited to be an HGVMax Timeshare Owner. I became a HGVMax owner when Hilton Grand Vacations Purchased Diamond International.

"HCV Max becomes more valuable."

Wow! I lost count of how many times you said it.

Heads are now exploding all over this forum.

 

[Clifbell]

I guess that you need to add the comment on the devalue for HGVC Legacy also.

I am not sure about Devaluing Legacy... If that is all you wanted, there is no reduction in value.... I just think there is more upside with HGVMax... I love the "original" locations.

 

[Clifbell]

"HCV Max becomes more valuable."

Wow! I lost count of how many times you said it.

Heads are now exploding all over this forum.

As a real estate investor (besides timeshares)... Value is created when properties are improved..... Hilton is acting like a real estate investor... Which make me excited (and apparently repetitive .. Hilton is not without risk... But I can see the potential.... Looking forward to more details

 

[singlemalt_18]

As a real estate investor (besides timeshares)... Value is created when properties are improved..... Hilton is acting like a real estate investor... Which make me excited (and apparently repetitive .. Hilton is not without risk... But I can see the potential.... Looking forward to more details

We upgraded over a year ago as Diamond owners and were excited - and optimistic - because we viewed it from that simple, easy perspective.

 

[HuskerATL]

I am not sure about Devaluing Legacy... If that is all you wanted, there is no reduction in value.... I just think there is more upside with HGVMax... I love the "original" locations.

There is a devaluing. You have access to the same properties but now there is much more competition at the 6 month mark and will be worse when BG is added. Right now, it is forcing HGVC Legacy owners to plan their trips between 6 months and a year out because as Max grows, the 6 month and less availability will be gone. If they add OS to the DRI/BR/Embarc Max option, then Open Season will be gone. In addition, since all new owners go into Max, the only way to stay in Legacy is to either never upgrade or only buy resale. The Legacy pool of owners will decline so there is a good chance that HGV will reduce Legacy benefits, such as the Elite program, to force the Legacy members to join Max. They want all members in Max since it is just an exchange so if Legacy owners are not exchanging their week, it will not be available in the Max exchange which weakens it so I am sure they would much rather force Legacy owners in to strengthen the exchange and eliminate redundant programs.

 

[HuskerATL]

We upgraded over a year ago as Diamond owners and were excited - and optimistic - because we viewed it from that simple, easy perspective.

you viewed it as getting access to HGVC/HC properties which is what HGVC Legacy owners are concerned about since they will now have more competition to their own properties and more than likely will not use DRI/HVC as much. To me, this is a loss for HGVC/HC and a win for DRI/Embarc/BG.

 

[HuskerATL]

As a real estate investor (besides timeshares)... Value is created when properties are improved..... Hilton is acting like a real estate investor... Which make me excited (and apparently repetitive .. Hilton is not without risk... But I can see the potential.... Looking forward to more details

I agree but I feel they are acting like an investor for the best interest of the stockholders and their own leadership interests versus the best interest of HGV owners.

 

[HuskerATL]

Now, one argument could be that Max is a real exchange. If it is, then it would then require a HGVC person to exchange their week into DRI before it would be available for a DRI person to book in HGVC. By doing that, it is the same as the HGVC person continuing to look for a week in HGVC. The numbers would remain a constant...just swapped out a DRI person for a HGVC person who is looking for a week. If it isn't working as an exchange, which is what HGV has called it, then it would devalue HGVC/HC to Legacy owners because there would be more competition for availability.

 

[Clifbell]

There is a devaluing. You have access to the same properties but now there is much more competition at the 6 month mark and will be worse when BG is added. Right now, it is forcing HGVC Legacy owners to plan their trips between 6 months and a year out because as Max grows, the 6 month and less availability will be gone. If they add OS to the DRI/BR/Embarc Max option, then Open Season will be gone. In addition, since all new owners go into Max, the only way to stay in Legacy is to either never upgrade or only buy resale. The Legacy pool of owners will decline so there is a good chance that HGV will reduce Legacy benefits, such as the Elite program, to force the Legacy members to join Max. They want all members in Max since it is just an exchange so if Legacy owners are not exchanging their week, it will not be available in the Max exchange which weakens it so I am sure they would much rather force Legacy owners in to strengthen the exchange and eliminate redundant programs.

I agree with your logic... I tend to book out more than 6 months so I didn't realize your point... But you are correct that it will put pressure on Legacy to upgrade... That could be annoying... I spoke to some Diamond owners who felt the same way.

 

[Clifbell]

Now, one argument could be that Max is a real exchange. If it is, then it would then require a HGVC person to exchange their week into DRI before it would be available for a DRI person to book in HGVC. By doing that, it is the same as the HGVC person continuing to look for a week in HGVC. The numbers would remain a constant...just swapped out a DRI person for a HGVC person who is looking for a week. If it isn't working as an exchange, which is what HGV has called it, then it would devalue HGVC/HC to Legacy owners because there would be more competition for availability.

Diamond has an exchange called Destination Xchange (I own both Diamond and HGV)... I think this will be expanded... I checked in Tennessee in January and the Laurel Crest Resort was available for a week at 6000 points (A BlueGreen Resort). I suspect this will be one method for booking Blue Green (or Diamond) in the future... But it is interesting to see that the points in the BlueGreen catalogue was 8000 points for the same week.... Maybe there will be some point adjustment in our future????

 

[GT75]

Now, one argument could be that Max is a real exchange. If it is, then it would then require a HGVC person to exchange their week into DRI before it would be available for a DRI person to book in HGVC. By doing that, it is the same as the HGVC person continuing to look for a week in HGVC. The numbers would remain a constant...just swapped out a DRI person for a HGVC person who is looking for a week.

Current indications are that HgvMax is nothing more than an exchange. So, if no HGVC Max members exchange their week, there won't be any inventory for HVC Max members to book and the same is the other way around. So, I don't see a devaluation of Legacy HGVC members.

 

[HuskerATL]

Diamond has an exchange called Destination Xchange (I own both Diamond and HGV)... I think this will be expanded... I checked in Tennessee in January and the Laurel Crest Resort was available for a week at 6000 points (A BlueGreen Resort). I suspect this will be one method for booking Blue Green (or Diamond) in the future... But it is interesting to see that the points in the BlueGreen catalogue was 8000 points for the same week.... Maybe there will be some point adjustment in our future????

I agree there will need to be some sort of point adjustment, probably modifying the BG points to align.

 

[HuskerATL]

Current indications are that HgvMax is nothing more than an exchange. So, if no HGVC Max members exchange their week, there won't be any inventory for HVC Max members to book and the same is the other way around. So, I don't see a devaluation of Legacy HGVC members.

I wonder if there is a way to figure this out. We could have a HGVC Legacy person compare availability at a property/time frame (<6 months) with what a DRI Max person sees in their system for the same HGVC property. If they are the same, then it would tell me that the whole system is open for them versus a 1 to 1 exchange. If the DRI Max availability is a subset of what the HGVC Legacy person sees, then it would appear to be an exchange.

 

[Clifbell]

I wonder if there is a way to figure this out. We could have a HGVC Legacy person compare availability at a property/time frame (<6 months) with what a DRI Max person sees in their system for the same HGVC property. If they are the same, then it would tell me that the whole system is open for them versus a 1 to 1 exchange. If the DRI Max availability is a subset of what the HGVC Legacy person sees, then it would appear to be an exchange.

I have both Diamond and Hilton.... Hilton Inventory shows up very accurately in Diamond, But Diamond Inventory does not show up consistently in HGV... It seems the system integration is lacking. I think we will see a major upgrade in Inventory integration... It is one of the reasons I am optimistic... I believe HGV owners don't have full access to all inventory (I think it is manually loaded / allocated)... Once this becomes integrated, we will see more inventory in real time.

 

[HuskerATL]

I have both Diamond and Hilton.... Hilton Inventory shows up very accurately in Diamond, But Diamond Inventory does not show up consistently in HGV... It seems the system integration is lacking. I think we will see a major upgrade in Inventory integration... It is one of the reasons I am optimistic... I believe HGV owners don't have full access to all inventory (I think it is manually loaded / allocated)... Once this becomes integrated, we will see more inventory in real time.

do you log into Max via DRI or HGV? If from the DRI side, then if it is an exchange, the available HGVC properties should be less than logging in from just the HGVC side since I doubt every HGV owner would have exchanged their weeks into DRI.

 

[Clifbell]

do you log into Max via DRI or HGV? If from the DRI side, then if it is an exchange, the available HGVC properties should be less than logging in from just the HGVC side since I doubt every HGV owner would have exchanged their weeks into DRI.

I have two different logins... When I log in on DRI, I see the HGV inventory on the main search... I don't need to check on Destination exchange... And I see the same inventory on DRI as I see on my HGV login. Not the other way around. On HGV, I see the locations but not all the inventory... I did a video on that (I think it was this one

)... But I did a comparison from both systems

 

[HuskerATL]

I

I have two different logins... When I log in on DRI, I see the HGV inventory on the main search... I don't need to check on Destination exchange... And I see the same inventory on DRI as I see on my HGV login. Not the other way around. On HGV, I see the locations but not all the inventory... I did a video on that (I think it was this one

)... But I did a comparison from both systems

Thanks for sharing the video. I have seen it before but I am really only thinking about access to HGVC properties so The Club with HGV Max access to a property compared to a HGVC Legacy access to the same property/timeframe. So, if you look at Tuscany Village for December does The Club with HGV Max person see the same availability as the HGVC Legacy person? If they are the same, then it is not acting as an exchange and the system is wide open for reservations.

I am not concerned about HGVClub with HGV Max access to DRI/HVC or any DRI/HVC properties but just want to test the availability differences in HGVC.

 

[Clifbell]

I

Thanks for sharing the video. I have seen it before but I am really only thinking about access to HGVC properties so The Club with HGV Max access to a property compared to a HGVC Legacy access to the same property/timeframe. So, if you look at Tuscany Village for December does The Club with HGV Max person see the same availability as the HGVC Legacy person? If they are the same, then it is not acting as an exchange and the system is wide open for reservations.

I am not concerned about HGVClub with HGV Max access to DRI/HVC or any DRI/HVC properties but just want to test the availability differences in HGVC.

Yes, I believe they do.... It is more the availability on Diamond side that is inconsistent.

 

[HuskerATL]

Yes, I believe they do.... It is more the availability on Diamond side that is inconsistent.

@GT75 , if this is the case, then it is not an exchange and just open for reservations. If it was really an exchange, then only the weeks that HGVC owners have exchanged for DRI weeks would be available to DRI folks so it should be less that what is available to HGVC Legacy folks since everyone with available weeks probably didn't exchange into DRI.

 

[dioxide45]

@GT75 , if this is the case, then it is not an exchange and just open for reservations. If it was really an exchange, then only the weeks that HGVC owners have exchanged for DRI weeks would be available to DRI folks so it should be less that what is available to HGVC Legacy folks since everyone with available weeks probably didn't exchange into DRI.

I think the only way to truly test this would be for a non Max HGVC member to see what they can see through HGVC and compare that to what a HVC (THE Club) Max member can also see.

 

[drucifer]

It's not an exchange, per se. It's opening a cross-shopping / cross-booking window, making the combined properties into one big pool at the 6-month mark. Those who plan ahead will be unaffected, but those who don't, or are looking for "last call" reservations will likely be impacted at some level.

The system will balance only as points-pricing induces people to book where there is excess capacity or discourages booking where capacity is tight. For example, I stayed 3 days in Orlando at an non-rebranded Diamond property, using Max, and it was like 1750 points. Essentially, from an MF cost standpoint, it was a well-maintained, though slightly dated, large 2 br/2ba unit, 1 mile off Disney property, for $60/night. I was induced to cross-book, as it was way cheaper and closer to Disney than either Parc Soliel or Tuscany.

But again, if the points/pricing is set correctly, demand will balance itself out.

 

[HuskerATL]

I think the only way to truly test this would be for a non Max HGVC member to see what they can see through HGVC and compare that to what a HVC (THE Club) Max member can also see.

That is what I was suggesting

 

[HuskerATL]

It's not an exchange, per se. It's opening a cross-shopping / cross-booking window, making the combined properties into one big pool at the 6-month mark. Those who plan ahead will be unaffected, but those who don't, or are looking for "last call" reservations will likely be impacted at some level.

The system will balance only as points-pricing induces people to book where there is excess capacity or discourages booking where capacity is tight. For example, I stayed 3 days in Orlando at an non-rebranded Diamond property, using Max, and it was like 1750 points. Essentially, from an MF cost standpoint, it was a well-maintained, though slightly dated, large 2 br/2ba unit, 1 mile off Disney property, for $60/night. I was induced to cross-book, as it was way cheaper and closer to Disney than either Parc Soliel or Tuscany.

But again, if the points/pricing is set correctly, demand will balance itself out.

HGV calls it an exchange though