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Timeshare Transfers

travelwizard1971

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I have a question for the everyone here. . . My mother owns several timeshares and like a lot of people, she is wanting to rid herself of the maintenance fees.
She was looking around on the internet and came across a company called Timeshare Refuge. She contacted them to see what it would be involved in transferring her ownership with a Wyndham property she owns. They seem very reasonable and professional. They told her she would only have to pay $699 which includes Wyndham transfer fee of $299 and all recording ect.

They stated this would be a guaranteed transfer. She has done the resale listing scams in the past and I was just wondering . . Has anyone ever heard or done business with Timeshare Refuge? They claim they are "The Home of the Timeshare Dump"

Their website is www.timesharerefuge.com .

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
TW
 

theo

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Never heard of 'em myself, but...

I have a question for the everyone here. . . My mother owns several timeshares and like a lot of people, she is wanting to rid herself of the maintenance fees.
She was looking around on the internet and came across a company called Timeshare Refuge. She contacted them to see what it would be involved in transferring her ownership with a Wyndham property she owns. They seem very reasonable and professional. They told her she would only have to pay $699 which includes Wyndham transfer fee of $299 and all recording ect.

They stated this would be a guaranteed transfer. She has done the resale listing scams in the past and I was just wondering . . Has anyone ever heard or done business with Timeshare Refuge? They claim they are "The Home of the Timeshare Dump"

Their website is www.timesharerefuge.com .

A brief look at their sparse web site (indicating no "brick and mortar" facility location) raises some questions. They claim their that their buyers are "non-typical", such as purchases for corporate travel and travel club fulfillment. Personally, I've yet to ever hear of any documented case of corporations buying timeshares, so this is a bit of red flag (..to me, anyhow). I also harbor doubts about the "travel club fulfillment" claim as well. Why, for example, would anyone buy worthless dog weeks for this particular purpose? Is there really a market somewhere (anywhere?) for travellers wanting dog weeks? They do claim that the new owners "will assume future obligations"; I'm not certain that means "will actually pay maintenance fee bills".

In any case, imho you'd likely better serve your Mom (and save some money too) by first at least trying to give away the weeks for free instead, by offering them in the Bargain Deals subforum. :shrug:
 
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I Agree with Theo, try the Bargain Basement or hire a Licensed Real Estate Agent specializing in timeshare resales.

Never pay upfront as it is usually a scam. Lic Brokers get paid AFTER escrows have closed.

Good Luck!
 

travelwizard1971

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Thank You for the advice! I guess she went ahead with it. I will let everyone know the outcome. Hopefully good!:ponder:
 

Kola

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Thank You for the advice! I guess she went ahead with it. I will let everyone know the outcome. Hopefully good!:ponder:

I have just read their website info and that raised two questions for you:

a) they talk about guaranteed title transfer, etc. What does that really mean ? Guaranteed in what way ? By whom? Whom would you hold accountable if the title transfer is not legally completed ?

b) in your case, have they committed to conclude all transactions by a certain date ? What evidence are they committed to provide ?

I am interested in how the process will work. Thanks.
 

travelwizard1971

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My Mother said she sent them a copy of her deed and she received a new deed and had to notarize it and return to them with the payment. I called them today and they said once they receive the deed back it will go directly to the county to be recorded and then sent to Wyndham for transfer. The deed she received and signed already had the new owners name and address as the grantee.

They also said the transfer would take about 4 weeks for the time they send the new recorded deed to Wyndham but indicated Wyndham usually is running behind and it may take a couple extra weeks. They will send her a copy of the new recorded deed once they receive it back.

Kind of nervous for my mothers sake and I hope it all works out good. If so kudos to Timeshare Refuge. If not, I guess another $700 for nothing.
I will keep everyone posted on the outcome!
Wish us luck!

Thank You
TW
 

theo

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Question on a critically important but still missing detail here...

My Mother said she sent them a copy of her deed and she received a new deed and had to notarize it and return to them with the payment. I called them today and they said once they receive the deed back it will go directly to the county to be recorded and then sent to Wyndham for transfer. The deed she received and signed already had the new owners name and address as the grantee.

They also said the transfer would take about 4 weeks for the time they send the new recorded deed to Wyndham but indicated Wyndham usually is running behind and it may take a couple extra weeks. They will send her a copy of the new recorded deed once they receive it back.

I see no actual mention of the identity and address of the new "grantee" on this reported new deed.
Such grantee information would certainly be required to be reflected within any (valid) new deed.
Did your mother retain a photocopy of whatever she signed and returned, either before or after signature?
If so, that "grantee" information would be very informative and revelatory. It would, for example, likely reveal virtually immediately whether or not this alleged new grantee is perhaps just a "Viking Ship LLC" of some sort.
It would be both very interesting and highly informative to learn the actual identity details of this "grantee".
Any chance you can acquire that info from Mom and report it back here?

Frankly, I fear that your mother may well have fallen prey to yet another scam here. I personally don't understand why she would choose paying an unknown entity $700 over giving the ownership away for free at no "out of pocket" cost, but to each his / her own, I guess. As they say, "it's a free country". :shrug:
 
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travelwizard1971

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I did see a copy of the deed and I looked up the buyer on white pages and I did call them. They seemed a little surprised but did indeed buy it from them. So I guess they are legit. Now I guess it's just the waiting game now to see if everything goes through.
Thanks
TW
 

theo

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We shall see...

I did see a copy of the deed and I looked up the buyer on white pages and I did call them. They seemed a little surprised but did indeed buy it from them. So I guess they are legit. Now I guess it's just the waiting game now to see if everything goes through.

In a previous lifetime, I worked a fair number of years in criminal investigation, periodically including fraud cases (...none of which ever involved any of the assorted sleazy parasites in and around the timeshare industry, for which I am eternally grateful). Let me just say for now, "beware the straw man"...

I hope that it does not turn out that the grantee named on the deed (and with whom you reportedly spoke by phone) is actually an employee / associate or some other sort of co-conspirator in a scam. This could be (not nearly enough facts or info on the table here to determine) a scenario in which a new deed does indeed get recorded, but is then followed immediately by a quit claim deed from the new "grantee", promptly becoming "grantor" and transferring ownership into some bogus "Viking Ship LLC", before the underlying resort involved even becomes aware of the first ownership change. In this potential scenario, no actual payment check to the seller (your mother) need ever have actually existed at all. This scam can be fleshed out quite easily from records at the applicable county registry of deeds. This is of course outright criminal fraud, but then needs to be unravelled (...time invested and money to lawyers) in order to straighten it all out.

Another scam possibility is that your mother and a perfectly legitimate, well intentioned would-be buyer are both being "taken". In this scenario, two checks come in to our unknown company for the one "transacation" and get promptly cashed, with nothing else ever subsequently done by our intrepid "company". Then "Poof" (insert sound effect for "disappearing" here) --- try to find them. This too, is criminal fraud.

I've admittedly seen far too much over the years to be inherently trusting (or much other than cynical) when it comes to obscure, heretofore unknown businesses --- particularly those relating to the slimy and sleazy timeshare industry. It is my hope (but not my actual belief) that I am dead wrong in this particular instance and that it is indeed a legitimate company, a legitimate buyer, a legitimate transaction and that your mother gets a valid check and ultimately becomes a happy former timeshare owner. Let us know. Good luck.
 
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Talent312

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Folks, the deed is done (literally), so let's just see what the OP reports back.
Of course, the OP could be pulling our leg, as well.

We know that the tooth-fairy is fantasy, yet somehow, $$ kept ending up under my pillow.
.
 
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TheNoob

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I guess if you spend enough time looking at timeshare scams it makes you pessimistic, you guys have me scared now! :eek:

I actually have started the process with TimeshareRefuge for my parents, scanned the deed and sent it to them and they are supposed to send me one back that needs to be notarized. They haven't asked for any money yet, but I'm sure that is the next step. I will probably hold off on sending them anything until I learn more about this company. Maybe they will allow us to pay Diamond's transfer fee directly, that would at lease assure the MF are out of their name.

So here is a question, if I post it as free on the board, wouldn't we still have to pay transfer fees and everything else? My thought is that it would still be $400-$500 to have somebody write it up and file it and I just didn't want to have to deal with it.
 

theo

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Be smart and cautious, not "scared"...

<snip> So here is a question, if I post it as free on the board, wouldn't we still have to pay transfer fees and everything else? My thought is that it would still be $400-$500 to have somebody write it up and file it and I just didn't want to have to deal with it.

Transfer fees and any and all other associated closing costs are always matters that are completely negotiable between you and the would-be recipient. If there is demand for what you have to offer, the recipient may well be entirely willing to pay those costs. On the other hand, if there is little or no demand for the product you offer, you may have to pay all of those transfer related costs yourself just to even find a willing "taker" at all. Bottom line --- it's all negotiable.

I certainly don't seek to "scare" you. That said, you are clearly new to the game and unfortunately, the timeshare industry has many scammers and assorted other opportunistic parasites waiting to pounce. You simply have to take great care to make sure that you deal only with known, legitimate entities with an established track record of performance and reliability. It's certainly human nature to want to just push the proverbial "Easy Button", but there ain't much "easy" about the resale timeshare arena. Many opportunistic parasites skulk around the periphery of the resale arena, perfectly willing to (falsely) claim possession of an "Easy Button" and thereby take full advantage of your quest for "easy". Be patient, be smart and be careful. If you act too hastily, you risk doing so at your peril (and wasted expense).
 
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ronparise

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I wonder what process or procedure would satisfy Theo and the other skeptics here

It seems to me that there are two questions that Theo needs answered, 1. is the deed really transferred (and does the resort recognize that transfer) and 2. What is the intent of the new buyer

I would submit that the seller doesn't really care about the second question. but if you really want to know, I would do one of four things... sell your week, at a profit, or hold your week in a rental company, or negotiate a deed-back to the resort poa, or if none of this works just stop paying mf..and wait for the resort to foreclose...Bottom line is that the risk is transferred from you to someone else

As to the first question...How about this:

I will send you a letter of intent...perhaps you could call it a one-sided contract. ie I sign it but you dont have to.

I will take your timeshare for a fee equal to 3 years maintenance fees, provided that you pay the closing costs and provided your fees are paid through the end of this year. You send your deed and transfer fees and closing costs and my fee to a transfer/escrow company of your choice, with the instructions that no money and no deed is to be released to me until the resort recognizes me as the new owner. Perhaps we could delay the transfer of funds until the resort sends out the next mf bill (to me)...If it would make you feel better, perhaps the closing company could be instructed to pay the next years mf out of my fee.

I suspect that the real objection that Theo and others here have regarding Timeshare Refuge and others like them is that they are in this for the money, and Theo thinks that the money they make is excessive....I dont think so...The fee I would propose is 3 weeks mf...One third of the fee is paid to the resort (MF), giving a year to re sell the deed. One third is used for the the costs associated with a resale and one third will be profit


No doubt that a seller could do this on their own, but there are lots of folks that pay others to do their dirty work...for example I pay a mechanic to change the oil in my car...something I am quite able to do myself. I have neighbors that pay to have their pool maintained and their grass mowed...something that I do for myself..and I have customers that pay me to find them a new home, or sell their old one...a task that many people do on their own. I agree that the timeshare market place is filled with opportunists and outright crooks, but there are I believe a few good service providers out there that shouldnt be condemned just because they do business in the timeshare secondary market.

I have no idea if Timeshare Refuge is a good guy or a bad guy, so Im not condemning them or endorsing them, but I do think that their are honest business people making a lot of money providing a valuable service in the Timeshare Industry
 

theo

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Wonder no more...

I wonder what process or procedure would satisfy Theo and the other skeptics here..... I suspect that the real objection that Theo and others here have regarding Timeshare Refuge and others like them is that they are in this for the money, and Theo thinks that the money they make is excessive.... <snip>

What you "suspect", at least in my case, is entirely incorrect. I couldn't care any less who makes money --- or how much of it they make. Why on earth would I care? :confused: :shrug: :confused:

What I do care quite a bit about, however, is legitimacy in timeshare ownership transactions and transfers. I have met too many trusting souls over the past (nearly 30 years now) of my timeshare ownership and experience who got separated from their money by "upfront fee" (alleged) resale parasites who then just disappeared, never to be heard from again. In two specific instances just since 2008 alone, two were people I knew personally, who could ill afford to see $1,095 each (yes, that was the exact figure) just disappear forever, leaving them with unwanted timeshare ownerships and the associated maintenance fee obligations and financial stress. Ultimately, I helped those particular two couples sell off their unwanted weeks (no commission expected or accepted) --- to legitimate, real people (albeit at a bit of a financial loss).

Those sorts of parasites (...no other word I can think of really fits nearly as well) are quite different from the newly evolved PCC's. While I would not personally ever pay a cent to a PCC myself, I do understand and can generally accept their model, although I find the "power of attorney" route used by many PCC's (as opposed to a prompt ownership transfer via recorded new deed) to be too "open ended" for my personal liking.

I realize that you are a real estate salesman. Perhaps you are a bit "sensitive" on issues pertaining to "sales" and / or "money" but my particular expressed cautions and objections on the "Timeshare Refuge" subject at hand are not at all about money --- I neither care who pays it nor who makes it. My concern is solely for transaction legitimacy --- and my own concept of "legitimacy" involves a lawfully executed, duly recorded, verifiable transfer of ownership to a real entity (i.e., not to any Viking Ship LLC's). No more, no less. If you have a problem with my viewpoint and / or perspective, you are certainly entitled to your own --- but don't erroneously presume and state (as you did, as quoted above) to know for even one moment what I think.
 
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Galper

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Legacy Vacation Resorts, Kissimmee

I have a timeshare at this resort in Kissimmee operated by Legacy Vacation Resorts which was formerly Celebrity Resorts. I lost my job and fell behind on my fees. I owe $4,000 now but they have told me for $1000 they will allow me to quitclaim it back to them and clear my credit report issue with them. For me $1,000 is like a million so I can't afford to be blindsided. Can anyone shed some light on this procedure or this company. Thanks much. St.John 3:16
 

ronparise

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What you "suspect", at least in my case, is entirely incorrect. I couldn't care any less who makes money --- or how much of it they make. Why on earth would I care? :confused: :shrug: :confused:

What I do care quite a bit about, however, is legitimacy in timeshare ownership transactions and transfers. I have met too many trusting souls over the past (nearly 30 years now) of my timeshare ownership and experience who got separated from their money by "upfront fee" (alleged) resale parasites who then just disappeared, never to be heard from again. In two specific instances just since 2008 alone, two were people I knew personally, who could ill afford to see $1,095 each (yes, that was the exact figure) just disappear forever, leaving them with unwanted timeshare ownerships and the associated maintenance fee obligations and financial stress. Ultimately, I helped those particular two couples sell off their unwanted weeks (no commission expected or accepted) --- to legitimate, real people (albeit at a bit of a financial loss).

Those sorts of parasites (...no other word I can think of really fits nearly as well) are quite different from the newly evolved PCC's. While I would not personally ever pay a cent to a PCC myself, I do understand and can generally accept their model, although I find the "power of attorney" practice (as opposed to prompt ownership transfer by recorded new deed) used by many PCC's to be far too uncertain for my personal liking.

I realize that you are a real estate salesman. Perhaps you are a bit "sensitive" on issues pertaining to "sales" and / or "money" but my particular expressed cautions and objections on the "Timeshare Refuge" subject at hand are not at all about money --- I neither care who pays it nor who makes it. My concern is solely for transaction legitimacy --- and my own concept of "legitimacy" involves a lawfully executed, duly recorded, verifiable transfer of ownership to a real entity (i.e., not to any Viking Ship LLC's). No more, no less. If you have a problem with my viewpoint and / or perspective, that's fine; you are certainly entitled to your own --- but please don't incorrectly presume (as quoted above) to know for even one moment what Theo thinks.

Sorry I picked on you about the money. but I still wonder how you distinguish between a legitimate LLC and a Viking Ship LLC. And I wonder if you think dealing with a real person or company who intends to pay maintenance fees, but doesnt, is any different from an LLC whose agent says the same thing....And how would you know their intent

It seems to me that the only thing a seller can do is to see that the transfer really happens...after that they are not in control
 

theo

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In writing?

I have a timeshare at this resort in Kissimmee operated by Legacy Vacation Resorts which was formerly Celebrity Resorts. I lost my job and fell behind on my fees. I owe $4,000 now but they have told me for $1000 they will allow me to quitclaim it back to them and clear my credit report issue with them. For me $1,000 is like a million so I can't afford to be blindsided. Can anyone shed some light on this procedure or this company. Thanks much. St.John 3:16

On its' face, this would certainly seem to be a pretty reasonable offer and potentially a good "out" for you.

Legacy is surely still a bit "cash strapped" after the relatively recent bankruptcy of predecessor Celebrity Resorts, so they likely realize that having to foreclose on your ownership is just an additional and unwelcome expense for them.

While this "offer" could certainly be a "win / win" for you (you get out of the ownership and the debt) and for Legacy (they get the week back, to then be able to sell it all over again to someone else), I'd personally be concerned about whether this "offer" was expressed to you in writing ---and under the signature of someone with the authority to have made the offer in the first place. I'd certainly be reluctant (...at best) to just send $1,000 off solely on the basis of a phone conversation with who-knows-who. :shrug:
 

rrlongwell

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I have a timeshare at this resort in Kissimmee operated by Legacy Vacation Resorts which was formerly Celebrity Resorts. I lost my job and fell behind on my fees. I owe $4,000 now but they have told me for $1000 they will allow me to quitclaim it back to them and clear my credit report issue with them. For me $1,000 is like a million so I can't afford to be blindsided. Can anyone shed some light on this procedure or this company. Thanks much. St.John 3:16

If this is a legit offer, take it and run. Tell them you do not have the $1,000 right now and make it a payment plan.
 

TheNoob

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@Ronparise, thanks for your feedback as well, I do think Theo is genuinely concerned for people's welfare as I do believe a large portion of resellers are parasites and my parents already got taken by one.

This seems somewhat more legit because it's not a reseller in the sense they are not asking for an upfront fee for 'advertising' , they are stating they will transfer the deed.

If anybody is interested, they are sending me the new deed tomorrow to be notarized, I could post it if you think it would help decide if something looks suspicious.
 

wawacito

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I am just in the beginning phases of scoping this company out and if all works out well for travelwizard1971 I will be using this company too. I am eagerly awaiting the results from travelwizard1971.

Here is some "back and forth" email I've been having with this company. So far they sound legit.

HERE ARE THE EMAILS BELOW (reverse chronological order)

I understand your skepticism. Indeed there are a lot of scams out there. Sumday Vacations does a lot of our closings and transfers. We use them because they have a good history and have the lowest fees in the industry.

Sumday Vacations also has a huge database of buyers. In your case, we will have a new grantee before you send any money and the signed deed back.

Once we receive a copy of your deed, I will contact Steve at Sumday Vacations to locate the new owner and the new deed will have that person on the new deed before I send it to you for signatures.

Once you return the signed deed and fees the deed will be sent to the recorders office to be recorded out of your name and then will be sent to Wyndham for completion at the resort level.

You will also need to call Wyndham and request a "Vacation Ownership Interest Detail" also know as an estoppel. We used to pay Wyndham $50 for this and as of last year, they require the current owner to request it and they will not charge you for this.

Hope this helps!

Thank You
Ray

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Walter wrote:

Forgive me for being doubtful, but there are too many scams on the web and I need to be cautious.

I'm just curious, on the new deed - I am the grantor, then who specifically is the grantee?
Do you also take care of transferring ownership at the resort level too?
What is your relation to Sumday Vacations?




--- On Wed, 4/11/12, info dept <info@timesharerefuge.com> wrote:


From: info dept <info@timesharerefuge.com>
Subject: Re: Timeshare Submission Form
To: ME
Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 10:41 AM


Hello,
The $699 would have to be paid when you return a signed deed to us. The process would be, you send me a copy of the recorded deed and we prepare a new deed showing you as the grantor , not as the grantee.
You would notarize it and send back to me with the check.
We would do all the closing and title work.

There are not any Federal Laws requiring an owner of real estate to use a licensed realtor to sell their own property. In other words, we would take your property and would not be advertise and sell it for you.
Ray Hinkle

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Walter wrote:

Is the $699 payable upfront or at closing?
What title company do you use?
Are they licensed to work in Pennsylvania?
 

TheNoob

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Here is an update, I received the new deed back and it does have a real person listed as the grantee, a gentleman out of Arkansas. It does list his address and everything.
 

Kola

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Here is an update, I received the new deed back and it does have a real person listed as the grantee, a gentleman out of Arkansas. It does list his address and everything.

Have you spoken to him to confirm he is the buyer of your week ?

If so, did he know the procedure and his future obligations ?

I am just curious. That's all.
 

TheNoob

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I did not contact him, I didn't really feel it was my place I guess to tell him about the ins and outs of timeshares.
 
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