Timeshare Property Taxes Quadrupled [Carlsbad Inn, in San Diego County]

[VegasBella]

Our property taxes for one of our resorts jumped up from under $50 a year to nearly $200 a year. Such a rapid increase took us a little by surprise. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[klpca]

That seems odd. In California there is a annual cap on property tax increases (Prop 13). Do you pay separately for your property taxes or are they rolled into your maintenance fee? If so maybe they had the property reassessed during the recession and now the levels have been changed to reflect the current value. I'm not sure but maybe they can move things back up at a greater than 2% rate if there was a prior reduction in value?

Found my own answer. See FAQ #3 http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/prop8.htm#5

That is the only situation where I could see a change happening to property taxes in excess of 2%, but your increase still seems too high.

 

[MichaelColey]

$200 a year times 52 owners is over $10k. That's a LOT. Even if the property tax rate is 5% (and I'm not sure any states are that high), that implies a $200k value per unit. That seems really high.

 

[am1]

I guess they need the money.

Based off of retail sales price?

Or including the unit and a share of the common areas.

 

[klpca]

Property tax rate here in CA is roughly 1.25%. Purchase price is the base value, maximum tax increases are 2% per year on the base. The property is reassessed on a sale. During the recession, many people had their properties reassessed to reflect the reduced (below purchase price) value. Once those values rose, the assessor reassessed up to the old base, then it's back to a 2% per year increase.

Nothing dropped in value by 75% in the recession, especially anything along the coast. These numbers don't make any sense at all.

Btw, I own 4 California timeshares, all bought resale in 2011 (i.e. zero value purchase prices). All were taxed at a minimum value ($3000 - $4000). None have gone up 75% (although Seapointe rolls their tax into the maintenance fees so I am not sure about that one (but my maintenance fees haven't increased by $200 in any single year). All of my property tax bills are about $40 - $50 per year. Also, property tax bills are sent in the fall - Oct/Nov timeframe.

 

[easyrider]

Property that is leased, such as federal or state lands, have recently been required by law to raise leases to reflect the real market value of that land.

Lake front, ocean front and any water front property has had some huge increases in value. The value increase of the land, owned privately or leased, has been a major cause of higher property taxes.

Bill

 

[cgeidl]

Some places dropped 75% in CA and AZ

Including a condo project we purchase in when the price was 50% less, then went down almost 80% and is now back where we purchased.Our taxes are about double what we paid at the bottom of the market and can go back to our purchase price.
We also saw prices drop that much where we lived in Surprise,AZ.

 

[CO skier]

Our property taxes for one of our resorts jumped up from under $50 a year to nearly $200 a year. Such a rapid increase took us a little by surprise. Anyone have experience with this?

If that happened to me, I would be on the phone with the management company asking for an explanation. It seems too large of a property tax increase, but there may be a legitimate reason for it.

 

[tschwa2]

$200 a year times 52 owners is over $10k. That's a LOT. Even if the property tax rate is 5% (and I'm not sure any states are that high), that implies a $200k value per unit. That seems really high.

Taxes on TS in California (and Florida) aren't equally divided by 52. They are based on the the actual season. So platinum owners pay more than gold and silver. In Florida, the difference never seems to be more than $20 or so from the highest to the lowest season. In California, not only is based on season but in some cases the actual purchase price. So someone who bought from the developer might be paying significantly higher property tax than someone who bought resale from someone who also bought resale.

 

[TUGBrian]

wow, that is a significant amount.

was there no warning at all from the resort at the annual meeting or notice to owners?

 

[klpca]

Property that is leased, such as federal or state lands, have recently been required by law to raise leases to reflect the real market value of that land.

Lake front, ocean front and any water front property has had some huge increases in value. The value increase of the land, owned privately or leased, has been a major cause of higher property taxes.

Bill

I'm pretty sure that owned land is still limited to the 2% per year increase. I suppose that other areas may have large increases on an annual basis but in CA it is limited by law. I don't know about leased land - none of my timeshares in CA are on leased land.

Taxes on TS in California (and Florida) aren't equally divided by 52. They are based on the the actual season. So platinum owners pay more than gold and silver. In Florida, the difference never seems to be more than $20 or so from the highest to the lowest season. In California, not only is based on season but in some cases the actual purchase price. So someone who bought from the developer might be paying significantly higher property tax than someone who bought resale from someone who also bought resale.

This difference is most likely due the difference in purchase price, not season (CA only - I don't know anything about Florida property taxes). The tax calculation on real property here in CA is pretty straightforward. My San Francisco property now adds a timeshare charge of $10 which is definitely bs, but the tax is just the minimum value of $3,000 multiplied by the 1%. This is the same on the Palm Desert property and the Coronado property as well.

 

[VegasBella]

Do you pay separately for your property taxes or are they rolled into your maintenance fee?

Separately. It's Carlsbad Inn, in San Diego County.

Based off of retail sales price?

Or including the unit and a share of the common areas.

Last year's taxes seem to have been based on our purchase price (about $6k is what was recorded - we actually paid about $5k plus first year's MF). We bought it and used it last year. This year's taxes note a "new assessed value" and put our ownership at a value of $20k. It should be noted that this type of ownership does sell for much more than we paid, but more in the $15k range, not $20k range. And those higher priced sales take a while. We just made lowball offers until we found a desperate seller who couldn't wait around 2 years to sell the thing.

was there no warning at all from the resort at the annual meeting or notice to owners?

I think it only affects us. I wasn't able to attend the annual meeting.

 

[klpca]

Separately. It's Carlsbad Inn, in San Diego County.


Last year's taxes seem to have been based on our purchase price (about $6k is what was recorded - we actually paid about $5k plus first year's MF). We bought it and used it last year. This year's taxes note a "new assessed value" and put our ownership at a value of $20k. It should be noted that this type of ownership does sell for much more than we paid, but more in the $15k range, not $20k range. And those higher priced sales take a while. We just made lowball offers until we found a desperate seller who couldn't wait around 2 years to sell the thing.



I think it only affects us. I wasn't able to attend the annual meeting.

Hmmm...now it makes sense. I think that you would have to appeal the assessment. My Coronado unit was also reassessed up to $5500 which is way more than I paid for it. But for that amount of $$ I'm not going to make a fuss. In your case, it is a different decision. Btw, I'm pretty sure that the assessed value is the higher of the purchase price or the assessed value - and they will use the value of the whole property, then apply an ownership percentage to that. That is why my zero purchase price units were subject to property taxes at all. There is underlying value in the property. I wanted them (Riverside County and SF County) to use the purchase price as the base but they refused and used the calculated amount instead. For $40 per year I decided it wasn't worth the fight since I was probably going to lose anyway.

In your case it is a large gap between $20k and $5k. I might argue about that.

 

[Icc5]

Donatello Fixed

We had a similar thing happen with our Donatello ownership a year or two ago. There it happened to be a college bond mistake where each unit was being charged instead of the main property. Instead of paying a large amount we ended up each paying $1+change. Mistakes happen so follow up to see if a mistake or what.

 

[isisdave]

Depending on what time of year you bought it, your first year might have been based on the previous owner's assessment. Did you get a supplementary assessment notice after you bought it?

If the low assessment was truly yours, it shouldn't be able to be raised. But maybe it wasn't, and yours is based on the market. What you paid has some bearing, but what others paid around the same time does too.

There is a time to request an informal review (Jan 2 - April 30) and a time to file a formal appeal (July 2 - November 30). See

http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/assessappeals.htm

and the San Diego County assessor's website. Maybe there's a simple explanation.

 

[VegasBella]

Actually I looked into it some more and realized that the old value they had of $6k was not based on what was recorded because what got recorded was only $500. I'm not sure how that happened - maybe someone dropped a zero.

The tax bill is a "supplemental tax bill" and says the value increased due to new ownership. We just received this notice but it looks like it took effect at the time of sale.

I'm going to file an appeal and see what happens. There aren't any sales for a similar unit/week that were $20k. There were some that were around $15k - $18k and there are sales for many other weeks that are closer to what we paid. I am going to use those ones for my appeal.

 

[klpca]

The tax bill is a "supplemental tax bill" and says the value increased due to new ownership. We just received this notice but it looks like it took effect at the time of sale.

That's exactly how the supplemental bills work. Your original bill is based upon the original owners base value (you're right - that seems like it was mistakenly recorded wrong), then they issue a supplemental for the difference between the old and new value, prorated for the number of days of new ownership.

Thank you so much for posting this thread. I wanted to confirm the tax rate yesterday so I looked up my Coronado unit on the county collectors website. Lo and behold, that is when I discovered *my* supplemental bills - one from the date I recorded the deed through the end of the fiscal year (mid March 2014 - June 30, 2014) and one for the new fiscal year (July 2014-June 30, 2015). Both were due by July 31, 2015. I had never received a copy of these bills. It turns out that a mistake was made in my mailing address when the original deed was recorded. I hadn't noticed it last fall because I paid online when I paid the property taxes on my residence. So this thread wound up saving me the hassle and penalties of a late payment. and I changed the mailing address on the bill so it's all good now. Except for the supplemental bill part. Maybe I'll appeal mine too.

 

[SmithOp]

Interesting, I was able to pull up the bill for Seapointe, they dont bill individual owners there. $415,039.10 on taxable net value of $37,099,598. 1% plus various fixed assessments and voter approved bonds.


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[John Cummings]

That seems very high. I own at Gaslamp Plaza Suites in downtown San Diego and my property tax is $28 /year. It has stayed the same for several years.

 

[klpca]

That seems very high. I own at Gaslamp Plaza Suites in downtown San Diego and my property tax is $28 /year. It has stayed the same for several years.

Your base is probably low. Once it is set they are limited to a 2% annual increase. Have you owned your unit for a long time?

 

[VegasBella]

It turns out that a mistake was made in my mailing address when the original deed was recorded. I hadn't noticed it last fall because I paid online when I paid the property taxes on my residence. So this thread wound up saving me the hassle and penalties of a late payment. and I changed the mailing address on the bill so it's all good now. Except for the supplemental bill part. Maybe I'll appeal mine too.

Glad to have helped

I filed an appeal. No idea how long it will take them to decide but when I get news yay or nay I will update this thread about it.

 

[John Cummings]

Your base is probably low. Once it is set they are limited to a 2% annual increase. Have you owned your unit for a long time?

More than 20 years. I bought from the developer when they first opened the resort.

 

[DanH]

California Prop Taxes on My Marriott

We own at Palm Desert, we were paying about $170/yr per week - it was always much higher than the 1.25% I had expected. We bought through TUG - not Marriott. I filed and appeal and it came back and said that basically they didn't care how much I paid for it, the tax was based upon what others were selling for (about 22K at the time as I recall.) During the recession, taxes fell to around ~$120/yr. Your supplemental may include 2 years worth of adjustments. That happened when I purchased a home there 25 years ago. I got billed a supplemental tax for the difference in assessed value (change due to ownership change) - prorated for the prior year. And I then had to pay the difference for the next year because the original billing had not been updated yet. So my supplemental tax bill included taxes for 2 years.

 

[sjsharkie]

Keep in mind that your ownership includes common areas as well.

In California, a renovation/remodel or new construction that requires a permit typically can trigger a reassessment of owner values. This is allowed under Prop 13, and would cause your base valuation to change.

-ryan

 

[BocaBoy]

Nothing dropped in value by 75% in the recession.

Actually, the value of lots of timeshares dropped by 75% or more in the Great Recession. I have no knowledge of the one being discussed in this thread, of course.