Times(hares) they are a'changing, so much has happened in the last few months, and I should know because...

[rickandcindy23]

I started writing a document for my sisters to explain our history with timeshares, giving advice on what to buy to use and/or exchange, complete with examples of great exchanges we have received. My document is in constant need of editing. The need to edit is because what I wrote is no longer true.

The history part is fine, history doesn't change, but the other changes I have had to make are mind boggling.

These are changes specifically because of what we own. For example, prices of resales have plummeted on the resorts we own and love for using and trading.

I just started writing this document in May. I haven't been able to print the document because I keep taking out old information and adding new information. Some of the document is extremely wordy, admittedly, and I even mark those areas with a warning that it's unnecessary to read certain pages. For example, our personal Wyndham history, which is important to me, but it doesn't really affect my sisters' future. I am steering them away from Wyndham. I can get them anything Wyndham they could want, unless it's owner-priority time. WorldMark, on the other hand, is still fantastic. Shell is now crappier than ever. Both of those are operated by Wyndham.

The two sisters only have vacation time and means to buy one or two resale weeks (or points). These are sisters who have gone with us on vacations and are now curious, especially after the youngest sister went on her first presentation in February at Marriott on Maui with her husband. They were ready to buy 1,500 Abound points for $25,000. A phone call during a cigarette break (to me) was all it took to dash the hopes of the salesperson. This sister has since purchased a resale Marriott week and is waiting for it to transfer (which will take 4 months minimum).

The unknown of II exchanges are going to be a whole new chapter and will erase every bit of information that I shared before. Our trading history will be a "this is how it used to be" chapter in that document. More history that can be ignored. Will my sister regret buying the Marriott week? She did get a bargain on the week, so no big money lost, but still there's consternation on my part, since I was the one that advised her on that front.

This is why no one writes a book on timeshare. Just when you think you can count on some things being constant, things change drastically.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I'm concerned too about Interval's new scheme of upgrading one's exchange by paying a new fee. I think that the users of the upgrade are going to suck up a bunch of higher end (size, quality, season) inventory.

 

[easyrider]

Just when you think you can count on some things being constant, things change drastically.

You should write a book Cindy. @ronandjoan So should you Joan.

In my timeshare essay of sorts, explaining what we own and how to use what we own to our family who might end up with this inventory, I'm only explaining Worldmark as it is what could be left to deal with. The constants are that many of the WM resorts are within driving distance from home, reserve at 13 months out and never buy anything retail. I do explain other things like bonus time, fax time, inventory specials and the check in list priority. A short bit about exchanges. Instructions to my POA.

Our other resort memberships will all have expired right to use clauses that expire in another 5 years.

Bill

 

[pedro47]

1. Please include the yearly M/F costs.

 

[Patri]

At this stage of life, renting would be a better option for your sisters.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You should write a book Cindy. @ronandjoan So should you Joan.

In my timeshare essay of sorts, explaining what we own and how to use what we own to our family who might end up with this inventory, I'm only explaining Worldmark as it is what could be left to deal with. The constants are that many of the WM resorts are within driving distance from home, reserve at 13 months out and never buy anything retail. I do explain other things like bonus time, fax time, inventory specials and the check in list priority. A short bit about exchanges. Instructions to my POA.

Our other resort memberships will all have expired right to use clauses that expire in another 5 years.

Bill

Writing a book would be a spoiler for all of us who have worked hard to figure it all out. Sharing to a wide audience is not really a good idea.

Anyone can find TUG, very true, but only diligent research on TUG will discover the information I would put in a book. No point giving it away for $5.95. Make them join TUG and watch the Sightings/ Distressed boards and the various systems out there and ask questions. My sisters still haven't joined TUG, and I talk about TUG incessantly in the document and in person.

I love WorldMark and am not on the ownership with Rick. I am thinking of getting my own.

 

[easyrider]

I love WorldMark and am not on the ownership with Rick. I am thinking of getting my own.

We placed my wife on the ownerships maybe 10 years ago. We were using our membership as if she were a listed owner but when they changed the website we couldn't use her as one of the owners to reserve a room. Now we can reserve 4 units for the same week without touching a guest certificate.

If you are looking for another membership I saw Henri has a huge one ready.

Bill

 

[chriskre]

My friends and family used to be gun-ho on TS's but I've discouraged them all.
The game has gotten so complicated and although I still get value out of it they can just
let me get them what they want if they really want something.
My kids want my DVC so we'll see if it's worth having when the time comes.
My other ownerships will end up going back to Wyndham, HGVC and Marriott.
I don't think it's worth them taking them over.

I can't believe that at one time I had 10 TS's and am now down to 5.
I struggle sometimes to use even 5 but as new resorts come on board the points get inflated
so I think I'll be okay for a while.
What used to get me a week only gets 4 or 5 days at some of these newer resorts.
Crazy what points inflation does to vacation budgets. It is what it is.
Rentals from II and RCI make more sense now than ever.

 

[jp10558]

My friends and family used to be gun-ho on TS's but I've discouraged them all.
The game has gotten so complicated and although I still get value out of it they can just
let me get them what they want if they really want something.
My kids want my DVC so we'll see if it's worth having when the time comes.
My other ownerships will end up going back to Wyndham, HGVC and Marriott.
I don't think it's worth them taking them over.

I can't believe that at one time I had 10 TS's and am now down to 5.
I struggle sometimes to use even 5 but as new resorts come on board the points get inflated
so I think I'll be okay for a while.
What used to get me a week only gets 4 or 5 days at some of these newer resorts.
Crazy what points inflation does to vacation budgets. It is what it is.
Rentals from II and RCI make more sense now than ever.

I honestly think that the "flexibility" of points systems to stay one night at a time (more or less, I think there's often a 2 or 3 night minimum, but not always) really increased complexity and cost for the resorts and hence for the owners/users. Think about all the extra administrative overhead in going from managing 52 weeks to something like 180 potential 2 day stays. You're basically a hotel at this point in terms of needed IT in the booking platforms. You've also got not just seasons but days in the week values now that vary. Then add in things like requested unit management, various schemes for fairness in unit assignments, etc etc etc. Plus you're committed to having check in, housekeeping and concierge staff 7 days a week instead of Saturdays. It's still over double than if you had Fri,Sat,Sun check in options. Plus you can end up with "nothing" in a given year if you don't book at a very specific time that varies across systems. And for people who want to go somewhere for more than a week, it can be extremely difficult to put that together every year.

I appreciate the mini-systems in some ways, but it has really been one of those things that reminds me of my first "real camera" purchase. There's just stuff you can't know until you do it. I paid for a higher end model camera back then because I wanted more autofocus points - and 45 sounded better than 9 in the lower model. I'll tell you what, after the first 3 months, I have used (even with a major upgrade for other reasons to a camera that now probably has 5000 autofocus points) exactly 1, the center point. But I had no idea that in practical use I'd only ever use the center point for 8 years going now.

The same with Timeshares - when I first started, I had no idea that I'd basically book in blocks of a week. But it's turned out to be the minimum amount of time I'd like to spend in a resort, and my family (so far) agrees. Points in a lot of systems seem to cost more than weeks, certainly if you're trading via RCI or II. I don't actually find booking via Wyndham or HGVC points any easier than RCI or II exchanges. And on the exchange side, the fixed week units are easier to use because you don't have to do a booking step before depositing.

With the older fixed weeks I also feel like much of the controversies around requesting a unit, location, status, waitlists, availability etc just don't exist. You are much less able to be implied you're getting a top end unit at peak time of the year unless you actually go buy that. There's no ambiguity. No, I'm an owner so I don't like that an exchanger "got a better unit" than me, or whatever. You can buy consecutive weeks in the same unit if you want to stay for longer. You can buy weeks in nearby units if you want more people to stay.

Oh, and it IMHO makes exchanging a lot easier and would be more able to have competition because you could basically do TUG style exchanges because both sides know what they have to exchange. I still don't even really understand how I would do a TUG exchange of some of my Windham points. (within all the rules). The rules are usually more favorable to owners of fixed weeks fixed units because it's very clear about what you own, so renting it out isn't an issue and the resorts usually don't care what exchange company you use (possibly would be much harder for them to say you can't use any exchange company you like if you can always rent it out too)...

I'm sure there were lots of issues that caused systems to change like they have.

 

[Jeff Angell]

So I am super new to the site. It’s awesome. Was hoping that someone might be able to tell me how I go about renting my HGV property.

I have about 6500 points that I will unfortunately not be able to use in 2027. Not trying to make a profit, just want to cover maintenance etc costs.

My home property is King’s Land in Hawaii.

Do I grab a reservation and offer that for rent? What’s the best way to offer the points that also allows the other party the flexibility that they desire.

Any help would be super appreciated.

 

[jp10558]

So I am super new to the site. It’s awesome. Was hoping that someone might be able to tell me how I go about renting my HGV property.

I have about 6500 points that I will unfortunately not be able to use in 2027. Not trying to make a profit, just want to cover maintenance etc costs.

My home property is King’s Land in Hawaii.

Do I grab a reservation and offer that for rent? What’s the best way to offer the points that also allows the other party the flexibility that they desire.

Any help would be super appreciated.

HGVC only lets you rent your home week, so you'd have to reserve that and then rent it out. If you just have "leftover points" it's against the club rules to rent them out and there's no way to transfer them. You could reserve something and try to rent it out, but if caught you could have the reservation canceled or not honored, and could have your account suspended for booking anything other than your home week

I think the safest thing is to see if someone you know "in person" and with no digital trail agreed they could use it then you're likely fine with a guest certificate. But posting online in like RedWeek, TUG or eBay would be risky.

 

[andre10056]

I started writing a document for my sisters to explain our history with timeshares, giving advice on what to buy to use and/or exchange, complete with examples of great exchanges we have received. My document is in constant need of editing. The need to edit is because what I wrote is no longer true.

The history part is fine, history doesn't change, but the other changes I have had to make are mind boggling.

These are changes specifically because of what we own. For example, prices of resales have plummeted on the resorts we own and love for using and trading.

I just started writing this document in May. I haven't been able to print the document because I keep taking out old information and adding new information. Some of the document is extremely wordy, admittedly, and I even mark those areas with a warning that it's unnecessary to read certain pages. For example, our personal Wyndham history, which is important to me, but it doesn't really affect my sisters' future. I am steering them away from Wyndham. I can get them anything Wyndham they could want, unless it's owner-priority time. WorldMark, on the other hand, is still fantastic. Shell is now crappier than ever. Both of those are operated by Wyndham.

The two sisters only have vacation time and means to buy one or two resale weeks (or points). These are sisters who have gone with us on vacations and are now curious, especially after the youngest sister went on her first presentation in February at Marriott on Maui with her husband. They were ready to buy 1,500 Abound points for $25,000. A phone call during a cigarette break (to me) was all it took to dash the hopes of the salesperson. This sister has since purchased a resale Marriott week and is waiting for it to transfer (which will take 4 months minimum).

The unknown of II exchanges are going to be a whole new chapter and will erase every bit of information that I shared before. Our trading history will be a "this is how it used to be" chapter in that document. More history that can be ignored. Will my sister regret buying the Marriott week? She did get a bargain on the week, so no big money lost, but still there's consternation on my part, since I was the one that advised her on that front.

This is why no one writes a book on timeshare. Just when you think you can count on some things being constant, things change drastically.

 

[chriskre]

I honestly think that the "flexibility" of points systems to stay one night at a time (more or less, I think there's often a 2 or 3 night minimum, but not always) really increased complexity and cost for the resorts and hence for the owners/users. Think about all the extra administrative overhead in going from managing 52 weeks to something like 180 potential 2 day stays. You're basically a hotel at this point in terms of needed IT in the booking platforms. You've also got not just seasons but days in the week values now that vary. Then add in things like requested unit management, various schemes for fairness in unit assignments, etc etc etc. Plus you're committed to having check in, housekeeping and concierge staff 7 days a week instead of Saturdays. It's still over double than if you had Fri,Sat,Sun check in options. Plus you can end up with "nothing" in a given year if you don't book at a very specific time that varies across systems. And for people who want to go somewhere for more than a week, it can be extremely difficult to put that together every year.


The same with Timeshares - when I first started, I had no idea that I'd basically book in blocks of a week. But it's turned out to be the minimum amount of time I'd like to spend in a resort, and my family (so far) agrees. Points in a lot of systems seem to cost more than weeks, certainly if you're trading via RCI or II. I don't actually find booking via Wyndham or HGVC points any easier than RCI or II exchanges. And on the exchange side, the fixed week units are easier to use because you don't have to do a booking step before depositing.


Oh, and it IMHO makes exchanging a lot easier and would be more able to have competition because you could basically do TUG style exchanges because both sides know what they have to exchange. I still don't even really understand how I would do a TUG exchange of some of my Windham points. (within all the rules). The rules are usually more favorable to owners of fixed weeks fixed units because it's very clear about what you own, so renting it out isn't an issue and the resorts usually don't care what exchange company you use (possibly would be much harder for them to say you can't use any exchange company you like if you can always rent it out too)...

I'm sure there were lots of issues that caused systems to change like they have.

The problem is that most people can't take off a full week anymore so points systems appeal more when you can take long weekends.
I'm retired so I'm flexible but honestly I will still book a full week and only use 4 or 5 nights of the week sometimes so unless it's a killer deal which it often is, it's just a waste of an exchange. Now going forward with the new II rules things will probably change, we shall see.
These developers don't care about the logistics of the running of the resort when they are selling you the points.
They let the HOAs worry about the burden of the day to day operations, so once they make their profits they are gone.

As for exchanging I find it more difficult than using the mini-systems.
I like just logging into my mini-system accounts and booking what I want.
I mostly travel off season and can find what I want so it's way easier than using the exchange companies IMO.
If I need peak season then I know I have to plan and still pretty much get what I want in the mini systems.
With exchanges, it's not guaranteed.
Plus the better resorts don't always show up in the exchange companies.
Some do but many will never be seen or will be unicorns.
I doubt we'll ever see DVC Grand Floridian, Polynesian or the Fort Wilderness Cabins in II for example.
I wish, but doubt it. They are fairly easy for me to get with some planning in DVC.
If II kills the exchanging with their changes then I may decide to divest sooner than later from Marriott.
I have already divested of my RCI exchangers except for my mini-systems and just rent from them now.
Tomorrow is Oct. 3rd so let's see what II has in store for us.

 

[rickandcindy23]

So many glitches happening with the rollout of the tiered II exchanges. I couldn't explain this to anyone, and I tried to explain it to Rick this morning, and he kept saying, "But you just said _____ and now you are saying _____, so I am confused. Please explain it better." I could NOT explain it to him because I was talking about different units and how much they are worth, and he was hearing that it was all about unit sizes, so studios are all the same. No, they are not, and he would say, "But you just said..."

I am never going to be a good person for giving directions or instructions without a whole lot more time than Rick will give me. He wants a "nutshell version," and I cannot help him understand it at all. This results in louder conversations than we mean to have.

 

[pedro47]

Are these new changes coming from the new management team at Marriott’s or II management team ?

 

[lukerguy]

My wife and I were looking at first time TS ownership recently since our kids are finally at an age where traveling doesn't seem like a major stress. My parents owned for many years. We used an interval account plus guest pass which was incredible in 2012-2015. We stayed at so many Westin/Marriott resorts in Hawaii for less than $1000 per week.

I really wish I had access to interval again for the getaway deals so I was thinking of just getting a timeshare to have access to said deals, but reading this thread (and others) has me concerned, especially about Interval trading.

We were leaning toward the Marriott Grand Chateau 3BD for trade power and lower relative fees. Any advice for my situation would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vacationtime1]

My wife and I were looking at first time TS ownership recently since our kids are finally at an age where traveling doesn't seem like a major stress. My parents owned for many years. We used an interval account plus guest pass which was incredible in 2012-2015. We stayed at so many Westin/Marriott resorts in Hawaii for less than $1000 per week.

I really wish I had access to interval again for the getaway deals so I was thinking of just getting a timeshare to have access to said deals, but reading this thread (and others) has me concerned, especially about Interval trading.

We were leaning toward the Marriott Grand Chateau 3BD for trade power and lower relative fees. Any advice for my situation would be greatly appreciated.

Short answer: don't (or at least, I wouldn't at this point).

The exchange game has recently changed -- dramatically. There are multiple, very active threads here on the details. You should read those before proceeding.

I used to routinely exchange cheap traders into Westin resorts on Maui and Kauai between about 2009 - 2020. What I did is no longer possible. The bloom is off of the Grand Chateau 3bd -- and many other units that many of us used for successful uptrades.

I don't want to be (too much of) a wet blanket, but this is something you need to research very carefully before proceeding. If it were me, I would wait until the dust settles on the recent changes.

 

[lukerguy]

Hey, thanks so much. I appreciate your advice!